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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #23070
| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? |
| Date | 2013-05-31 00:23 +0200 |
| Organization | 1&1 Internet AG |
| Message-ID | <ko8jhj$3v8$1@online.de> (permalink) |
| References | (10 earlier) <7xa9ncdgh1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <D8udnRfXXNl-1zrMnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@supernews.com> <7xd2s8edej.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <rtmdnQTj4Kmy6DrMnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d@supernews.com> <7x61y0qtdj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
Paul Rubin wrote: >> I doubt it. Have you tried doing this? > > Not in Forth. But Forth is not C, never has been, never will be. > I've done some embedded C stuff. But, the total approach > of the Python/Linux system was completely different (easier) than how it > would have been done in the 1980's: It's not about the 1980. Many things Forth has done in the 1980s were completely exclusive to Forth back then. That was a complete different world, which made it quite difficult to get people over. Today, it's a lot easier, as many Forth concepts had been adopted some way or another by other languages. Including unreadability, so by now, Forth is considered as a pretty readable language, compared to popular languages like Perl. Haha. > 1. The 1980's thing would have had to upload files by dialup modem or > something, needing some kind of upload protocol (probably wouldn't have > bothered with crypto), a dedicated phone line, etc. The Linux thing was > just slapped onto the customer ethernet and uploaded files by https, we > could connect to it with ssh, etc. The networked Forth my friend did at the Garching accelerator had an ARCNET network, networking 120 CPUs, and it didn't send files around. It supplied the nodes with the code they needed. On demand. And it even knew when the nodes had outdated versions of the code. It was sort-of a distributed version control system. Yes, you can have that with Linux today. But with Forth, you could have that in the 1980s. > 2. The 1980's UI would have been pushbuttons and LED's. The Linux thing > had a touchscreen GUI that was much easier for newbies to use. This was > done with a Python GUI library, but these days it might be even easier > to use an embedded web browser as the GUI. Ok, the Garching accelerator got a real GUI in the early 90s. It was a Windows GUI, and since MINOS hasn't been written by then, it was in Visual Basic. The controllers were in some radioactive environment, where you didn't have anybody, for good reasons. > 3. Management kept asking for new features during development. This was > much easier to accomodate in Python than it would have been in C In C, please. You have no experience in Forth. > or Forth, Nope. > because of the ease of debugging, The ease of debugging is one of the best things in Forth. > and the convenience of using > complicated data structures in Python (nested dictionaries of strings > and lists, etc.), letting the runtime GC them. The program had to > remember and juggle a lot of strings which is a relative pain in the > neck in Forth. Don't know, MINOS is written in Forth, and as a GUI library, it has to deal with a lot of strings, and it isn't a pain. The string library doesn't contain a GC, though, which is not a problem, because the strings in the GUI library are all attached to some object, which, when freed, will free the corresponding strings, too. A lot of those data structure complications come from using some XML or JSON library. This stuff is commonly over- and abused excessively. There are places where you need them. But the average programmer deals with XML as if it was the only way to represent data. > Anton's Forth GC library would make things easier I > guess. Possible. > 4. The program used around 20 preemptive threads, some of which were > CPU-bound some of the time, and which passed complicated structures > around through internal fifos. Various hazards were avoided by using > immutable data, which again was doable mostly because we had tons of > memory and cycles compared to a typical 1980's micro. Sure. In other words: You wrote a lot of bloat, which would have killed the project in the 1980s. Maybe you did something that was impossible in the 1980s, but this is quite unlikely. > Maybe I'm overestimating the difficulty but I'm imagining a lot more > trouble making the thing reliable with a Forth multitasker and mutable > data. This sort of stuff is not about imagination, it is about experience. The traditional Forth multitasker in the 80s was cooperative, which was perfectly ok, since there was only one CPU core anyways. So all these races and hazards weren't an issue. They also come in by using overly complex data structures, as you told us above. These sort of data structures are a problem, not a solution. > E.g. we had a preemptive monitoring task that restarted the > application if a thread locked up or crashed. Yes I know that code > isn't supposed to crash, but it happens enough in real life that a whole > language that I'm using now (Erlang) is basically designed around crash > recovery. I'd consider Erlang if I were doing a new project like this. I remember a "crash never" talk from Nick Nelson, and he had a long list of how to make Forth crash-proof. Silently restarting applications in the background was one of them. So, yes, we know that, and yes, we do that, too. > 5. The UI and the I/O stuff were actually on two separate Linux boards > (not my decision) that had to communicate with each other. A > traditional embedded approach would have meant bit-twiddling protocol > design, Aio! You never have programmed in Forth. The way to network two Forth boxes together (in a trusted environment) is to send Forth code over the network. JSON on steroids, for you, because you don't just have data, but also code. Our LinuxTag demo robot, which this year had to play Go against a human, had two different computers, as well. One b16 based FPGA to convert moves into PWM signals to the servos (hard real time), and an Android tablet to provide the camera and visualization how the image recognition worked. The communication didn't use some special separate interface, but the debugger of the FPGA board (which uses an UART). The communication protocol was to compile the moves into a b16 program, and write that program into memory, and then execute it. This sort of communication is completely alien for people who never have done such a project in Forth. The other part of the demo, the tablet, was remotely controlled by telneting into Gforth, which has a terminal server using the telnet protocol (which is totally trivial). > another hardware interface, etc. We just ran TCP over USB and > sent stuff around as XML documents which Python has good libraries for. > (JSON would have been even easier). You probably could do the Go player in XML or JSON, too, something like <take><pair x=2 y=7 /><pair x=3 y=7 /><pair x=4 y=7 /> ... </take> <place><pair x=3 y=5 /></place> Well, this would require an XML parser. The FPGA has only one interpreter that doesn't cost you any code space: The Forth instruction set. Use it, it is more powerful than XML. Because it allows nested definitions, loops, conditional branches, calculations, and so on. > I can't speak from any real experience about Forth, but I've done enough > C development to know that doing that project in C would have taken > several times longer. Yes, we all know that C projects take several times longer than Forth projects. So what's your point? Forth is certainly not C. > It's awesome to spent 5 seconds writing a 1-line > list comprehension that is obviously right and works immediately, As Elizabeth already told you, it is awesome to write a Forth one-liner, that is obviously right, and works immediately. > instead of hours iteratively writing and debugging a page full of C > code. The schedule was able to be incredibly compressed due to Python. No doubt. I think you just don't get Forth, and you should do something which we suggest to Gavino all the time: Dive in and try it. Forth is not something you can comprehend by just looking at it. Yes, it is all low- level at the first glance. You miss the interactivity, and you also miss the fact that data is code. Maybe you should look closer at JSON: The clever idea about JSON is that this is JavaScript. You don't need a JSON parser if you use JavaScript, you just interpret the JSON file, and the data is there. Forthers have been done that for decades. We usually have a tailored set of words for our "data", which actually is source code, and which is interpreted by running it through the Forth interpreter. Or compiled, if you like to. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" http://bernd-paysan.de/
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OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-26 10:45 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-26 12:47 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-26 14:07 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-26 13:05 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-26 14:09 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-26 20:37 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-27 05:21 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-27 08:05 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-05-27 17:45 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-27 08:58 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-27 15:57 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-05-27 18:00 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-27 09:54 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-27 12:19 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-27 10:55 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 14:26 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-27 12:19 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-27 15:22 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 17:49 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-27 15:00 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 18:08 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-27 12:52 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-27 21:36 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-28 00:46 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 10:42 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-28 05:11 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 10:40 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-28 10:28 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-28 15:30 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-28 10:48 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-05-28 09:30 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 19:02 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-28 16:33 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-28 11:51 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-05-28 19:45 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-29 03:41 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-28 23:57 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 12:37 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-29 16:28 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-29 16:08 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@invalid.com> - 2013-05-29 19:31 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-29 19:42 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-29 12:55 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-29 18:06 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@invalid.com> - 2013-05-29 22:13 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 14:35 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-05-29 21:34 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@invalid.com> - 2013-05-30 08:31 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-30 16:45 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-05-30 17:07 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-31 22:01 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-01 23:26 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-03 01:42 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-02 18:26 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-03 21:35 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-04 21:51 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-06 03:45 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-05 22:25 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 16:17 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-06 21:25 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-06 20:41 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-07 08:26 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Jecel <jecel@merlintec.com> - 2013-06-07 15:49 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-07 21:43 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-06-09 01:15 +1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-08 22:20 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-09 08:33 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-06-09 08:17 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-07 15:07 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-07 00:59 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-07 01:11 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-07 09:48 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-07 08:25 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-11 15:33 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-07 08:28 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-08 00:46 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-07 21:58 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-09 00:49 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-08 22:24 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 12:08 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-27 09:40 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 13:13 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-05-27 17:18 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-27 22:24 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-27 22:59 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-29 00:01 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-29 00:12 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-05-29 01:46 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 12:54 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-29 11:05 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 15:36 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-30 00:07 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-30 00:43 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-30 01:22 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-30 07:49 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-30 07:43 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-30 10:50 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-30 10:18 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-30 08:08 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 00:03 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-30 21:21 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 11:09 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-31 08:28 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 16:03 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-02 00:05 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-03 21:21 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-31 00:37 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 01:14 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-05-31 09:50 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 09:35 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 11:47 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 10:09 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 12:12 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 10:22 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-31 10:25 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 12:11 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-01 16:12 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 21:43 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 06:41 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-31 12:03 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 10:01 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 12:06 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-31 00:23 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 01:05 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-31 11:23 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 11:15 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-05-31 18:37 +0100
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 10:43 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-31 23:21 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? mhx@iae.nl - 2013-05-31 15:07 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-01 08:55 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 00:41 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-01 13:52 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-03 16:07 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-03 07:56 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-03 11:20 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-04 12:30 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-06-04 21:47 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-05 00:58 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-06-05 21:09 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-05 15:50 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-06-05 22:06 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-06-05 15:26 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-12 16:41 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-12 16:46 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-13 22:44 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-04 16:06 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-01 02:20 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-01 17:32 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-01 19:26 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-02 01:13 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 00:39 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-01 18:05 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-02 00:45 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-02 08:34 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-03 01:57 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-03 19:37 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-03 17:37 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-04 08:03 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-03 21:22 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-04 01:18 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-04 08:41 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-04 10:46 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-04 05:43 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-04 08:49 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-05 00:48 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-31 09:27 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-31 11:27 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 06:16 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-31 11:36 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 09:52 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 12:10 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-31 10:30 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-01 00:06 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 10:07 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 16:01 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 13:20 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-30 09:32 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-30 09:30 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 09:38 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-01 01:40 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 22:50 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 13:11 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 13:08 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 16:24 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 10:49 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 10:54 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-28 15:27 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-28 09:31 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 19:08 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-29 03:51 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 13:04 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Pavel Klinkovsky <pavel.klinkovsky@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 00:12 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 13:05 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-28 09:32 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 19:05 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-29 00:16 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-29 00:22 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-29 01:23 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-05-29 09:35 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-29 05:37 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-29 04:53 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-29 08:39 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 15:25 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 23:05 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 10:57 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 15:16 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 13:15 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? daveyrotten <danw8804@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 09:21 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 19:10 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? daveyrotten <danw8804@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 18:40 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-28 19:33 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? daveyrotten <danw8804@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 04:31 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 16:12 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-06-11 16:29 -0700
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