Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project?

From	Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@invalid.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project?
Date	2013-05-29 22:13 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<ko5jo3$50e$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <89edncV_Bv8oCD7MnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@supernews.com> <f69675e2-f9e1-4c66-9691-dfa473196557@googlegroups.com> <ko5249$690$1@online.de> <ko5a9g$9ip$1@dont-email.me> <ko5em2$h5d$1@online.de>

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On 29.5.2013 19:42, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> Mikael Nordman wrote:
>
>> On 29.5.2013 16:08, Bernd Paysan wrote:
>>> oh2aun@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> This is still rather fugly.  It's a consequence of having multiple
>>>>> memory spaces, and IMHO there's nothing elegant and symmetric about
>>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>>> Andrew.
>>>>
>>>> Yes but...
>>>> The original question was about the elegance of the instruction set. Not
>>>> about the memory architecture.
>>>>
>>>> If you have flash, eeprom and ram in your system you are bound to have
>>>> different memory spaces, that need to be accessed in different ways.
>>>
>>> No, not at all.  All you need is a memory mapping in hardware, which maps
>>> different memories to different addresses.
>>>
>> Yes of course you can do the mapping in hardware. But still you cannot
>> write to flash _randomly_. You need to read the flash block to a buffer
>> in ram. Erase the flash block. Write your data to the ram buffer. And
>> flash the ram buffer.
>
> Ah, come on.  The semanitics of flash is "write once".  You erase a block,
> and then you can write *once* to it (or rather: make the transition 1->0 for
> the bits).  Works fine on those 16 bit controllers I've been using.
>
>> If your code does an read-modify-write to the memory in the flash
>> buffer, it means that you have to have a branch in the @ and !
>> instructions, in order to check if your data is in the ram buffer or in
>> flash.
>
> The point is that you can't use flash like RAM.  But you can use the
> standard @ and ! to read and write to flash, given it's write-once
> semantics.
>
>> At least all flash controllers I have seen works like this.
>> Maybe there is one that does the block buffering in ram automatically ?
>
> No, that won't help.  You can overwrite a flash block maybe 1k or 10k times,
> and then it's reliability is too low to be useful.  The point here is: a
> write to flash has a different semantics.  But it is still a write.  When
> you write into the serial io register, you don't complain that the semantics
> is to send a byte over the serial line.  It's obviously not RAM, either,
> because if you read from the serial IO register, you don't get what you have
> written into it, you get what the other side wrote into it.
>
>> On a non-Harward architecture you can make a Forth that executes code
>> from ram and then dumps it to flash afterwards. But then you have to
>> handle the flash in a similar way as a block file system.
>
> No.  You just can only write once.  You can have your Forth in flash, and
> use , to compile into the dictionary.  Because , is "write once", and
> therefore fits the flash semantics.
>
>> In FalshForth the above block mapping is handled inside @ and !.
>> This is the only way to make a transparent read/write random access to
>> flash.
>>
>> With this abstraction you can then
>> write a Forth system where the same user code can perform CREATE ALLOT
>> TYPE CMOVE DUMP , C, etc. on data space that resides in any type of
>> memory. Many find that very convinient.
>
> That's how Gforth EC in R8C works.  Just without the branch.  And without a
> hidden memory copy, because that would damage the flash.
There are some smarts to the FlashForth flash buffer flush logic.
The buffer has to be dirty.
The write is only done in interpretive state after a line has been 
interpreted. This to ensure that a newly compiled word is in flash and 
ready to be executed.
In compilation state the buffer is only written if the buffer needs to 
swapped out to a new block.
>
>> But most Forthers seem to prefer to have @ I@ E@ ! I! E! CREATE ECREATE
>> ICREATE ALLOT IALLOT EALLOT etc. etc. or to have read/write data space
>> only in ram.
>
> Rewrite space should be in RAM, not in flash.  Write-once for constant data
> can be in flash.
>
>> See my above explanation. Flash is erased in blocks, not in words.
>
> Yes, but once erased, flash is written in words.  Once.  That's enough.
> There's no need to be sequential, and you can erase one bit or another by
> writing to the same location again.  That's how I deal with immediate flags
> and CREATE DOES> (the dovar pointer is carefully placed at a location with
> all relevant bits set, so DOES> clears a few bits to change that pointer).
>
>> Perhaps the above system did not have random read/write flash access ?
>
> Of course.  Random read many, random write once.
>
>> There is actually the MSP430 FRAM variant that allows random writes to
>> persistent FRAM. It can read and write RAM and FRAM with exactly the
>> same instruction sequence.
>
> Yes.  And the same thing works on an MSP430, somehow.  You have an IO
> register, which can turn on flash erasing or flash writing (if disabled,
> flash is like a ROM), and then you can use the normal write instruction to
> write the flash.  The difference between my 8051 integration solution and
> Ti's MSP430 solution is that you need a busy waiting loop for the flash
> write to complete.
>

Bernd, I see your points but
obviously you are working with different constraints than I.

My system works also with flash that is only block writable. Many of the 
chips FlashForth supports only have a block write.

My system also supports character write on word writable flash. C! C,

My system supports also Harvard architectures providing a unified 
address space.

And there are cases when you lay out your constant data in flash, where 
it is written in a random fashion, or rewritten. The point is that you 
dont have to care. Flash typically lasts 100K block erases.
Just dont make any program loops that write to flash or eeprom.

My system supports also eeprom write.
There is of course some overhead in the @ ! with one test before the ram 
read/write.
I think its not that large. Most of the code does other things than @ !. 
Typically stack operations, primitives and call/ret (enter/next) takes 
up most of the clock cycles anyway.

The point is to make the details and constraints of writing to flash 
almost invisible for the user. You just have to understand to not write 
too many times to flash.
If your code is really slow you have put a variable in flash. Aiaiai. 
Some soldering may be needed.

BR Mikael

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OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-26 10:45 -0700
  Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-26 12:47 -0700
    Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-26 14:07 -0700
  Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-26 13:05 -0700
    Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-26 14:09 -0700
      Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-26 20:37 -0700
    Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-27 05:21 -0500
      Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-27 08:05 -0700
        Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-05-27 17:45 +0200
          Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-27 08:58 -0700
          Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-27 15:57 +0000
          Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-05-27 18:00 +0200
            Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-27 09:54 -0700
        Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-27 12:19 -0500
          Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-27 10:55 -0700
            Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 14:26 -0400
              Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-27 12:19 -0700
              Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-27 15:22 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 17:49 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-27 15:00 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 18:08 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-27 12:52 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2013-05-27 21:36 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-28 00:46 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 10:42 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-28 05:11 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 10:40 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-28 10:28 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-28 15:30 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-28 10:48 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-05-28 09:30 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 19:02 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-28 16:33 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-28 11:51 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-05-28 19:45 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-29 03:41 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-28 23:57 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 12:37 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-29 16:28 +0200
            Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-29 16:08 +0200
              Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@invalid.com> - 2013-05-29 19:31 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-29 19:42 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-29 12:55 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-29 18:06 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@invalid.com> - 2013-05-29 22:13 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 14:35 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-05-29 21:34 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@invalid.com> - 2013-05-30 08:31 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-30 16:45 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-05-30 17:07 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-31 22:01 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-01 23:26 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-03 01:42 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-02 18:26 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-03 21:35 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-04 21:51 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-06 03:45 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-05 22:25 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-06-06 16:17 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-06 21:25 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-06 20:41 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-07 08:26 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Jecel <jecel@merlintec.com> - 2013-06-07 15:49 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-07 21:43 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-06-09 01:15 +1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-08 22:20 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-09 08:33 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-06-09 08:17 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-07 15:07 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-07 00:59 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-07 01:11 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-07 09:48 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-07 08:25 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-11 15:33 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-07 08:28 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-08 00:46 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-07 21:58 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-09 00:49 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-08 22:24 -0700
  Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 12:08 -0400
    Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-27 09:40 -0700
      Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-27 13:13 -0400
  Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-05-27 17:18 +0000
  Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-27 22:24 -0700
    Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-27 22:59 -0700
      Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-29 00:01 -0700
        Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-29 00:12 -0700
          Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-05-29 01:46 -0700
          Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 12:54 -0400
            Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-29 11:05 -0700
              Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 15:36 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-30 00:07 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-30 00:43 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-30 01:22 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-30 07:49 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-30 07:43 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-30 10:50 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-30 10:18 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-30 08:08 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 00:03 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-30 21:21 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 11:09 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-31 08:28 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 16:03 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-02 00:05 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-03 21:21 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-31 00:37 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 01:14 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-05-31 09:50 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 09:35 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 11:47 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 10:09 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 12:12 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 10:22 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-31 10:25 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 12:11 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-01 16:12 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 21:43 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 06:41 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-31 12:03 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 10:01 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 12:06 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-31 00:23 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 01:05 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-31 11:23 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 11:15 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-05-31 18:37 +0100
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 10:43 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-31 23:21 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? mhx@iae.nl - 2013-05-31 15:07 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-01 08:55 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 00:41 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-01 13:52 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-03 16:07 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-03 07:56 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-03 11:20 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-04 12:30 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-06-04 21:47 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-05 00:58 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-06-05 21:09 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-05 15:50 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-06-05 22:06 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-06-05 15:26 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-12 16:41 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the 'best' processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-12 16:46 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-04 16:06 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-01 02:20 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-01 17:32 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-01 19:26 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-02 01:13 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 00:39 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-01 18:05 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-02 00:45 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-02 08:34 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-03 01:57 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-03 19:37 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-03 17:37 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-04 08:03 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-03 21:22 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-04 01:18 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-04 08:41 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-04 10:46 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-04 05:43 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-04 08:49 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-05 00:48 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-31 09:27 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-31 11:27 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 06:16 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-31 11:36 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-31 09:52 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-31 12:10 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-31 10:30 -1000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-01 00:06 +0200
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 10:07 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 16:01 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 13:20 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-30 09:32 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-30 09:30 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-31 09:38 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-01 01:40 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 22:50 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 13:11 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-30 13:08 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 16:24 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 10:49 -0400
    Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 10:54 -0400
      Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-28 15:27 +0000
        Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-28 09:31 -0700
          Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 19:08 -0400
            Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-29 03:51 +0000
              Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 13:04 -0400
          Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Pavel Klinkovsky <pavel.klinkovsky@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 00:12 -0700
            Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 13:05 -0400
        Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-28 09:32 -0700
        Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 19:05 -0400
          Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-29 00:16 -0700
            Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-29 00:22 -0700
              Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-29 01:23 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-05-29 09:35 +0000
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-29 05:37 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-29 04:53 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-29 08:39 -0500
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 15:25 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-01 23:05 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-04 10:57 -0400
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 15:16 -0400
            Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 13:15 -0400
      Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? daveyrotten <danw8804@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 09:21 -0700
        Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 19:10 -0400
          Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? daveyrotten <danw8804@gmail.com> - 2013-05-28 18:40 -0700
            Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-28 19:33 -0700
              Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? daveyrotten <danw8804@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 04:31 -0700
                Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-29 16:12 -0400
  Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-06-11 16:29 -0700

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