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Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C"

From James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Newsgroups comp.std.c
Subject Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C"
Date 2012-08-16 13:40 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <502D3099.3020704@verizon.net> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <502BF4CA.1040304@verizon.net> <k0gv5g$vap$1@dont-email.me> <a92ggiFptrU1@mid.dfncis.de> <502C1215.5010506@verizon.net> <a94ofgFmbsU1@mid.dfncis.de>

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On 08/16/2012 01:20 PM, Hans-Bernhard Bröker wrote:
> On 15.08.2012 23:18, James Kuyper wrote:
>> On 08/15/2012 04:52 PM, Hans-Bernhard Bröker wrote:
>>> On 15.08.2012 22:00, John Nagle wrote:
> 
>>>> VLAs are already an optional feature in the current C standard draft.
> 
>>> Given they were a _non_-optional feature of the previous actual standard
>>> of 1999, I'd like a draft number, chapter and verse before I believe that.
> 
>> n1570.pdf: §6.7.6.2p4: "Variable length arrays are a conditional feature
>> that implementations need not support;"
> 
> Hmm... and here I sit, trying hard as I can not to ask "They did ... 
> WHAT?"  Guess I'll have to dig me up a C11 Rationale, then.

There isn't one, yet, I gather. The document that proposed the change is
available to the public (though I have no idea which document it is) and
probably contains an argument in favor of that change. However, the
rationale is fairly straightforward: the number of fairly important C
compilers that have never bothered to fully implement VLAs. There were
very few fully-conforming implementations of C99, and VLAs were one of
the reasons. The committee wanted to do something to change that with
C2011. They have no power to give implementors greater incentives to
conform, so they took the alternative route of lowering the requirements
for full conformance.

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Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-13 11:39 -0700
  Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-13 23:23 +0200
    Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-13 17:04 -0700
    Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-13 20:08 -0700
      Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-13 22:23 -0700
        Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-14 11:20 -0700
          Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-14 14:54 -0400
            Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-14 21:09 +0200
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-14 16:00 -0400
            Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-14 18:08 -0400
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-08-14 23:05 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-15 06:48 -0400
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-15 11:22 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-15 15:13 -0400
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-15 13:00 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2012-08-15 22:52 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-15 17:18 -0400
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2012-08-16 19:20 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-16 13:40 -0400
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-16 11:04 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-16 14:35 -0400
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-16 11:47 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-16 14:52 -0400
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-15 14:41 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" "Derek M. Jones" <derek@_NOSPAM_knosof.co.uk> - 2012-08-16 12:39 +0100
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-16 09:57 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-16 13:28 -0400
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" "Derek M. Jones" <derek@_NOSPAM_knosof.co.uk> - 2012-08-16 23:52 +0100
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2012-08-15 18:56 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-15 19:23 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-08-15 21:47 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2012-08-16 19:14 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-16 20:28 +0200
          Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-14 15:05 -0400
          Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2012-08-14 21:09 +0200
            Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-14 13:24 -0700
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-14 16:39 -0400
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-14 15:23 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-08-14 22:58 -0700
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2012-08-15 00:37 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-14 16:42 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2012-08-15 22:57 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-15 17:02 -0700
          Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-14 14:59 -0700
            Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-14 15:35 -0700
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-15 00:51 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-15 06:43 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-15 08:31 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-15 09:14 +0200
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-14 18:58 -0400
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-15 06:45 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-08-14 22:51 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-15 07:18 -0400
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-15 14:15 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-15 14:28 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-15 14:36 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-15 14:54 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-15 15:08 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-15 12:50 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-15 23:22 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-15 14:38 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-16 00:51 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-15 16:32 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-16 09:05 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-15 17:22 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-15 20:29 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-15 12:36 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-15 16:09 -0400
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-15 08:47 +0200
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-14 16:33 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-14 16:38 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-15 06:46 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-14 22:28 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-15 08:34 +0200
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-15 09:12 +0200
          Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-16 13:09 -0700
            Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Wojtek Lerch <wojtek_l@yahoo.ca> - 2012-08-16 16:21 -0400
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-16 14:22 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-16 15:28 -0700
                Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Wojtek Lerch <wojtek_l@yahoo.ca> - 2012-08-16 19:49 -0400
      Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-14 08:56 +0200
      Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-14 06:18 -0400
        Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-14 12:42 +0200
          Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-14 09:43 -0700
            Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2012-08-14 19:52 +0200
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-14 21:03 +0200
            Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-14 21:39 +0200
      Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-08-14 08:26 -0400
  Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-08-13 22:44 +0100
    Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-13 18:05 -0700
  Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-14 21:00 +0200
    Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Marc <marc.glisse@gmail.com> - 2012-08-14 21:18 +0000
      Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-14 23:51 +0200
  Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-17 09:40 -0700
    Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-17 21:00 +0200
      Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-17 13:30 -0700
        Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-17 23:14 +0200
        Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-18 01:07 +0200
          Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-19 23:14 -0700
            Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Ike Naar <ike@sverige.freeshell.org> - 2012-08-20 07:16 +0000
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-20 00:25 -0700
            Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-08-20 11:49 +0200
            Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2012-08-20 22:40 +0200
              Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-20 23:08 +0200
    Re: Initial draft proposal: "Safe arrays and pointers for C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-08-17 15:33 -0700

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