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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #12645
| From | Don Y <this@isnotme.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.electronics.design, comp.arch.embedded |
| Subject | Re: Cutting panels |
| Date | 2013-07-22 18:52 -0700 |
| Organization | Aioe.org NNTP Server |
| Message-ID | <ksknl5$c7c$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <b6tou8dsaelkbkngodta8rf46pvf9a11o7@news.supernews.com> <ksiakp$vds$1@speranza.aioe.org> <b554dsFj3euU2@mid.individual.net> <ksk0ck$je7$1@speranza.aioe.org> <b55sruFoba5U1@mid.individual.net> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
Hi Joerg,
On 7/22/2013 4:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>> Repeat for the second set of 36 means we're in the $230+
>>>> ballpark. For essentially a blank sheet of aluminum with
>>>> a few holes in it (surely no descriptive legend... that
>>>> would have to be written on a sheet of paper taped to the
>>>> wall by the panel? :> )
>>>>
>>>> I can't imagine many folks going this route. Esp when you see
>>>> how many PC's have replaced/added optical drives that don't
>>>> bother to "match" the original color scheme of the machine! :>
>>>
>>> For a professional-looking panel that ain't bad at all.
>>
>> How many folks, realistically, do you think would drop that sort
>> of money on a "piece of metal"? You can buy 3 or 4 quality
>> security cameras for that price. Or, several of the little
>> satellite processors that I use. I.e., things that give you
>> functionality ... not just cosmetic.
>
> Hobbyists won't, of course. But I can see myraid uses in the
> professional world. For example, when you present an idea to venture
> capitalists (just did that recently) there will often be demo hardware
> you have built. A professional front panel versus a "duck tape and
> Sharpie" approach can make all the difference. Well worth $100.
Ah, sorry. We're speaking under different assumptions. :<
*I'm* talking about someone trying to reproduce my system
and facing the same sorts of challenges: a variable number of
"connections"; servicing a variety of *different* purposes;
with an *individual's* budget; etc.
E.g., patch panels make sense fabricated the way they are when
they are being used to connect a bunch of "computers" together.
You probably already *have* several equipment racks for your
network switches, UPS, servers, patch panels, etc. This is where
the patch panel "belongs".
And, "1" means just as much as "37" as far as identifiers are
concerned. And, having a cheat sheet that expounds on those
identifiers is almost a requirement as you typically are
describing a sh*tload of drops in a variety of different
offices throughout a building. "Workstation 3 in Electronics Lab",
"Supervisor's Office", "Cubicle 3B77A2 South", etc. So, the 0.625"
of horizontal space available for a "label" can suffice to carry
*just* a number.
OTOH, when you (me) are using the panel to interconnect a bunch
of different *systems* (HVAC, Irrigation, Surveillance Camera 3,
Hot Water Heater, Garage Door Opener, Weather Station, etc.)
then its more helpful if you can indicate what each connector
services *on* the panel (since people misplace cheat sheets;
businesses tend to have *staff* responsible for tracking what's
where on their patch panels!).
You probably *don't* have an equipment rack anywhere in your
home. And, probably don't want to see a mess of cables and
equipment. Or *hear* them (fans, etc.). Instead, you want to
tuck it all into some corner where it is just barely accessible.
"Make it fit".
E.g., here, I have the various processors, switches, UPS, etc.
hiding in the bottom of a "closet" off the kitchen. Space that
isn't easily used for anything that we would want to get at
often (because it's too low to the ground).
I can imagine others wanting to put it all in a big box and hide
it in a bedroom closet. (I'm not sure I would recommend locating
it in "non-living" space -- reliability! :< ) My goal is to
shrink things to about 10U -- I'm about double that, currently
(because I have lots of COTS components in the current implementation)
I'd like to come up with a "solution" that lets folks figure out
how best to package/deploy their own version instead of imposing
a solution. You want to use an equipment rack? Fine! *You*
figure out where to put it... (I have a friend with one of these
5,000sq ft palaces that *likes* making his toys visible. He'd
probably set it in a 42U rack with glass doors sitting in a
corner of his living room! "Conversation Piece" :-/ Sheesh!)
The idea of "custom panels" IN GENERAL makes perfect sense (e.g.,
the examples you cite). I just don't think many would pursue it
for *this* project (which would already be hard to get past your
S.O. -- regardless of how many shoes she has!! :> )
>> As I said elsewhere, think of how many folks with "black" color
>> scheme PC's have added/replaced CD/DVD drives and used *white*
>> ones... because the *black* ones weren't on sale? Or, a brandX
>> keyboard on a brandY computer? Or, who label things with
>> pen/pencil instead of a real "labeler" (or, don't bother to label
>> at all!! :> )
>>
>> And, that's just a "generic" panel. I.e., *exactly* what I already
>> HAVE... all it's buying me is "cut it in half" and don't make it
>> *look* like it has been cut in half! And, it still doesn't really
>> legend the connections (other than numbering them).
>>
>> E.g., with a graphic overlay, I can put pictures (icons) of cameras
>> with "NNW", "NNE", "SSW", "SSE", etc. to identify the various security
>> camera connections; icons of speakers with "N Kit" (kitchen), "S Kit",
>> "NW Fam", "SE Fam", "SW Fam", etc. to identify each of the network
>> speaker connections; little "antenna beacon" icons legended to identify
>> the connections associated with the beacons; icons of "CRTs" legended
>> to identify the connectors associated with the various control panels;
>> a bell to mark the connector for the alarm system; a big "drip" for
>> the irrigation system; etc. (I have mixed feelings about icons. But,
>> you could also arrange the connectors in *groups* and use the space
>> below each group to identify the group -- "Security Cameras" -- with
>> shorter indications to further qualify each individual connector: NNW,
>> NNE, SSW, etc.)
>
> Man, you guys must have a full-blown NSA setup going there :-)
Yeah. Wanna know what the neighbors had for breakfast this morning?
<grin>
[Actually, I haven't deployed the cameras outside the house, yet,
as that's going to usher in a bunch of "tricky" conversations.
Esp from folks who will think *I* should now monitor activities
outside *their* houses and be willing to sit through hours of
footage trying to identify someone who drove through the neighborhood
squealing their tires, etc.]
>> Shirley, trying to do anything like this on that "custom" panel
>> from fabricator is going to be outrageously expensive (and, if it
>> is engraved, probably pretty unusable, visually).
>>
>> And, if you change some wiring or add some new connections, you just
>> print a new overlay!
>
> Sure, if you need flexibility you can't have things engraved. In that
> case it is better to have slots for paper strip, like the quick-dial
> numbers on a fax machine.
Little paper strips fall out and get lots. Writing *on* the unit
ensures it stays *with* the unit. But, then you're screwed when
you want to change a label (recall, you only have 0.625" to make
your annotation!).
Given that the wiring isn't likely to change often (unless a connector
fails or a cable "in the wall" breaks), simply replacing the entire
overlay seems a good approach.
Of course, folks with larger/wider panels will be stuck having to
get their overlays printed "elsewhere" (unless you have a B size
printer). But, even that isn't a real hassle since it is so
infrequent.
>> Also, if you've screwed up *measuring* the locations of the various
>> mounting studs, etc. *required* to make the custom panel usable, you
>> don't learn $100/200 later! Screw up a graphic overlay and you're
>> out $2. It doesn't *care* where the studs are located because the
>> studs are already present on the panel *beneath* the overlay!
>
> You plan to screw the panels straight onto the studs? That sure is a
> true minimalist approach.
Not sure what you mean.
The panel consists of a sheet of aluminum, a set of PCBs (onto which
are mounted the connectors and punch-down blocks), and a set of
studs/standoffs that "float" the PCBs behind the aluminum sheet.
Opening
===== ==========
S CCCCC S
S CCCCC S
S CCCCC S
---------------
B B
B B
Viewed sighting *down* the edge so the connectors are stacked
normal to the page
Where:
== aluminum sheet
-- PCB
CC connector body (soldered to PCB)
S standoff/stud (fastened to panel and PCB)
B punch-down block (soldered to PCB)
So, the locations of the studs as they meet the panel are
significant. Drill the hole in the wrong place (assuming you
are machining a piece of metal -- or, having someone else
do it for you) and you can't line up the PCBs/connectors
with the slots ("opening") in the aluminum plate.
Since these studs don't appear on (or through!) the graphic overlay,
that's one less (actually, 24 holes) thing to worry about screwing up!
[Remember, I'm thinking about *other* people trying to make
such things!]
>>> Just think about
>>> what your own time is worth per hour, and then you still need to buy the
>>> stock somewhere.
>>
>> It's called a photograph. You buy them at Walgreens, Target, Costco,
>> Walmart, etc.
>
> Yeah, but those photos don't last.
Laminated they will last damn near forever. Remember, you aren't
poking at this every hour/day/week. You plug stuff in and forget
it. Until something stops working or you want to add some capability.
How often do you have to replace the labels on your fuse box
outside (?) your home? And, I suspect you spend far more time
in there (resetting breakers, etc.) than you ever would, here!
(E.g., how often do you reconfigure the cables going to your
network switch(es)?)
>> With the custom panel, you still are spending time. And, waiting
>> days/weeks to see if you've screwed up.
>>
>>> Which probably means another hour just for the drive
>>> into town, plus 2-3 gallons of gas at $4 a pop.
>>
>> Some of us have indoor plumbing, Joerg (i.e., we don't live 35+
>> miles from <wherever>) :> Even a thin sheet of rigid plastic can
>> be purchased from any of the local craft stores. Remember, it
>> doesn't have to *do* anything -- just cover some holes that we want
>> to pretend don't exist and "support" a photograph.
>
> Ain't no crafts store in this here town. But we can get saddles, boots,
> spurs, and glow plugs for the John Deere.
Ah. Perhaps that's why I thought you lived further out (east)!
[I've had an image of a spot near Lake Tahoe in my mind -- even
though I know you don't live in Tahoe!]
I can walk to a Kinkos in less than 15 minutes. E.g., I am planning
on taking my first pass of this "panel overlay" there, tomorrow, to
get it laminated. I used heavy card stock to print it on one of the
Phasers (gives it a high sheen, "magazine page" finish) to increase
it's "rigidity" and I'm hoping the plastic lamination will make it
even stiffer. If it works out, then I'll spend a bit more time
to pretty-up the thing (actually, have to make the second one as
well -- different legend) and call it "done"! :>
>> I think the graphic overlay would appeal to the sort of person
>> who *isn't* going to just settle for "using an equipment rack".
>> (I know several folks who *will* go the equipment rack route!)
>> It's a very low bar to cross -- low cost of admission. And,
>> very low cost for failure (print paper copies until you are
>> sure all is correct). And, lets them point to something that
>> is exclusively *their* creation -- since so much else *won't* be!
>>
>> And, hey, if he wanted to spend extra money on a fancy piece of
>> metal, there's nothing to stop him! He can even machine it out of
>> *platinum* if he wants! :> (chances are, that sort of sod would
>> not be doing *anything* himself so I won't worry about him!)
>
> For hobby or residential use it can be ok. But not really in the pro
> world, like industrial of when looking for venture funding.
Agreed. As I tried to clarify above: I'm concerned with folks
who are trying to do this "for themselves". A commercial offering
would be far less "custom": "This is the Model X. And here is the
Model Y. Which one do you want?"
And, commercial offerings tend to be *less* concerned with cost than
someone who's trying to bankroll a gizmo like this for themselves...
E.g., we've dropped about a kilobuck into *just* the irrigation
system -- with none of that spent on "labor" or "profit". We
could never have justified what it would have cost to *contract*
that job out! If I'd *tried* to contract *this* project out,
neither of us would *ever* retire (to enjoy it!) :>
--don
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Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 02:47 -0700
Re: Cutting panels John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> - 2013-07-21 08:05 -0500
Re: Cutting panels Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-07-21 10:38 -0400
Re: Cutting panels "Carl Ijames" <carl.ijames@nonono.verizon.net> - 2013-07-21 12:36 -0400
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 09:48 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 13:29 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 14:10 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 16:23 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 21:04 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 15:07 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 16:35 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 17:11 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 16:27 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-23 21:50 -0500
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 21:24 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-24 09:09 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-24 16:02 -0700
Re: Cutting panels hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> - 2013-07-21 16:52 -0600
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 17:13 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 12:35 -0700
Re: Cutting panels amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2013-07-21 09:54 -0500
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 09:32 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 13:36 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 14:04 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 13:14 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 13:26 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 14:06 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 16:08 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Rich Webb <webb.ra@example.net> - 2013-07-21 19:42 -0400
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 21:45 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-22 07:51 +0000
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-07-23 05:57 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 14:46 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Lancaster <don@tinaja.com> - 2013-07-23 16:41 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-07-23 17:21 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-24 09:26 +0000
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-25 12:11 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-07-25 16:04 -0400
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-25 13:03 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 13:40 +0000
Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-23 07:38 -0700
Re: Cutting panels [solved?]/summary Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-29 15:18 -0700
Re: Cutting panels andrews@sdf.lonestar.org - 2013-07-21 12:45 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 19:17 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-07-21 19:45 -0400
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 17:07 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Peter Bennett <peterbb@somewhere.invalid> - 2013-07-21 16:57 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 20:58 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 21:02 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-22 09:20 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 12:15 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-22 16:17 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 18:52 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 14:00 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 15:13 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-23 07:09 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-07-23 10:03 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 21:59 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 15:54 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-24 13:09 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-24 15:51 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-26 09:13 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-26 11:35 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-26 12:06 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-26 19:44 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-26 22:21 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-27 08:12 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-26 13:42 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-26 18:50 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-26 22:49 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-27 00:53 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-27 10:16 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-26 23:52 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-27 17:36 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-28 09:22 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-28 12:31 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-28 13:48 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-28 14:20 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-28 16:35 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-28 17:39 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-28 19:38 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-29 11:15 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-29 16:30 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-29 17:38 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-29 21:45 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-30 12:20 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2013-07-21 21:38 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-22 00:39 -0500
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 01:39 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-22 19:09 -0500
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 20:10 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 14:07 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-22 18:33 +0100
Re: Cutting panels Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-07-22 13:44 -0400
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 19:00 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-23 10:09 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-23 11:45 +0100
Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-23 13:46 +0100
Re: Cutting panels 0bama <0B@nocontrast.org> - 2013-07-23 13:06 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-23 22:19 +0100
Re: Cutting panels 0bama <0B@nocontrast.org> - 2013-07-24 08:05 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-07-23 10:07 -0400
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-25 01:26 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 14:18 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-07-23 11:38 -0400
Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-23 22:32 +0100
Re: Cutting panels Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2013-07-23 21:37 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 16:16 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-24 10:37 +0100
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-25 01:27 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Gonadicus <gonadicus@no_spam.com> - 2013-07-23 12:46 +0800
Re: Cutting panels sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2013-07-23 04:58 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 16:13 -0700
Re: Cutting panels Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 13:25 +0000
Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 21:42 -0700
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