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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #161636 > unrolled thread
| Started by | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000 |
| Last post | 2016-04-11 22:01 -0500 |
| Articles |
20 on this page of 1000+
— 51 participants
Thread has 1157 articles; only the first 1000 are indexed. |
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Thread has 1157 articles; showing the first 1000 in depth-first order. Use the flat group view to see the rest.
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-30 09:15 -0700
Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 04:03 +1100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-31 09:12 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 12:12 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 17:39 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:39 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-12 00:12 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 20:44 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-01 21:03 -0400
Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-02 15:12 +1100
Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-02 15:15 +1100
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-02 05:34 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-02 08:31 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-02 12:21 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-02 20:49 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-03 08:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 10:12 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 19:43 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 15:45 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:29 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 12:18 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 12:00 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 03:51 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 16:42 +0100
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-03 20:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Gatuzo <Gatuzo@mccarragher.org> - 2016-04-03 21:11 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-03 21:42 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 11:56 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 12:47 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 22:53 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-04 06:33 -0700
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-04 14:04 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 15:42 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-04 15:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 17:05 +0100
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-04 23:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 18:42 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-05 03:05 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-12 19:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-04 23:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-12 19:13 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-13 06:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 06:33 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-13 07:52 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 06:30 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-04 17:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:22 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:56 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 12:16 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 12:00 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 18:03 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:53 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:05 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:09 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 18:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:34 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 10:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 07:08 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 07:36 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:48 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 09:14 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-04 15:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-04 17:12 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-06 00:39 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-06 09:36 +0100
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 10:31 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:01 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 12:18 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:50 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 14:16 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:20 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 19:24 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:31 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 14:53 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 10:22 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:56 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 11:24 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-04 06:36 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 06:38 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 08:33 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:15 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:40 +1000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:31 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:44 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-05 12:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 08:03 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-12 11:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 05:01 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-12 16:36 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 09:38 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-13 11:11 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 04:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-11 20:51 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:10 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-12 07:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:09 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:07 -0700
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 07:31 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-13 16:48 -0500
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 17:38 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 09:36 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-13 22:11 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 09:35 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-13 21:54 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 13:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-04-13 23:04 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-14 11:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-14 16:20 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:14 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-14 23:23 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-15 16:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 20:17 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-15 11:00 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 04:15 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-02 16:28 -0500
Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-04-02 21:44 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 08:17 +1000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 03:55 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 16:56 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 12:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:21 -0700
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-05 12:49 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-06 16:32 -0700
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 11:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:31 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 04:13 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-02 20:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 11:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 05:29 +0100
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 03:57 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 07:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 14:00 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 08:55 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 06:18 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 10:03 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:27 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-03 16:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-03 11:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 11:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-03 11:39 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:55 +1000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:38 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-03 11:14 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 04:01 +1000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 20:31 +0200
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-04 01:58 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 20:50 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 20:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-03 21:52 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 22:55 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:33 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:16 -0500
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 15:54 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 15:54 +0000
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-04 09:22 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:42 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 20:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-03 22:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:38 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 06:17 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 10:01 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 17:20 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 12:02 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:44 +1000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 20:23 +0200
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:50 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 19:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:40 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 15:00 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 10:23 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:57 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 08:41 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:53 +1000
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-05 21:14 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-05 11:27 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-05 14:52 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 04:04 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-05 22:50 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:26 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:39 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:37 +0100
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-03 10:52 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:40 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-04 19:04 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-05 12:57 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-05 13:43 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:38 +1000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-12 11:45 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-12 13:47 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-12 16:50 +0200
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 05:04 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 17:32 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 17:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-12 17:00 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:18 -0700
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 17:36 -0500
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-14 16:07 +0200
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 12:04 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 09:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:47 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-14 11:43 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-14 16:20 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-14 20:35 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-15 09:23 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-15 12:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-15 16:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-15 11:59 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 18:52 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-16 01:45 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 22:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-16 10:13 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 18:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:09 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-17 10:29 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-20 20:36 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-20 19:48 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-16 09:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-16 13:16 +0200
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-16 13:13 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-16 10:36 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-16 20:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-16 20:46 -0700
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-17 09:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-17 12:07 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 08:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-17 09:26 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:51 +1000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:44 +1000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:44 -0700
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:43 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 12:41 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-19 18:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-19 12:00 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 01:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 08:38 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 16:44 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 16:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-18 13:04 -0500
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-18 18:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-18 14:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:19 +1000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:13 -0500
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-26 11:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-26 11:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Jack Brown" <7865jb@nospam.com> - 2016-04-28 06:09 +1000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-18 16:12 -0300
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-18 20:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-19 06:20 -0700
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:17 +1000
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 21:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:11 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 14:47 -0400
Re: Qbasic Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-04-19 22:06 -0300
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-20 10:31 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-20 10:55 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-20 11:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-21 08:01 +0200
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-21 12:34 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-20 10:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 15:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 15:25 +0000
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-20 18:07 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 13:07 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-20 11:44 -0700
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-20 15:25 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-21 08:19 -0700
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-21 15:25 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-21 17:58 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-21 11:28 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 07:11 -0500
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-20 17:49 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-21 03:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-21 08:11 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-21 17:58 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-21 12:34 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-21 14:57 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-21 20:20 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-22 11:18 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-21 16:25 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:15 +1000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 12:21 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 06:03 +0100
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:33 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-22 07:11 +0100
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 05:31 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-22 15:01 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 12:21 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-04-24 11:21 +0200
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-24 12:43 +0200
Re: Qbasic Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-04-25 07:16 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-25 10:10 +0200
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-25 15:42 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-25 16:55 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name,invalid> - 2016-04-26 00:05 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 06:14 +0100
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-04-26 07:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-26 12:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 13:54 +0100
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-26 10:18 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 16:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-26 11:44 -0500
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-26 18:15 +0200
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-26 22:44 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-27 10:50 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 11:10 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-24 11:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 07:43 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-24 12:20 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-24 17:01 -0300
Re: Qbasic Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-04-26 21:37 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-26 16:37 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-26 22:16 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Jack Brown" <7865jb@nospam.com> - 2016-04-27 14:18 +1000
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-27 12:39 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 19:32 +0100
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-28 12:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-28 13:43 +0100
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-29 12:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-29 13:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-29 15:19 +0200
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-29 14:27 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-29 09:58 -0500
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-29 19:51 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 06:28 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 08:11 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 14:14 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 09:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 13:54 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 13:46 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 06:11 +1000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 09:02 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 05:49 +1000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-25 15:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-25 16:55 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-25 23:56 +0200
Re: Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-04-22 01:02 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-22 15:22 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-22 11:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-19 11:21 +0100
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 13:25 -0500
Re: Qbasic Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 13:45 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 15:37 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-19 18:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 19:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-19 17:04 -0300
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 17:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:17 -0500
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:39 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 12:25 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 06:00 +0100
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:22 +1000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:49 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-26 11:02 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-26 17:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-04-26 14:31 -0400
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-26 21:21 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 18:33 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-26 22:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-27 16:19 -0300
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 19:53 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-30 15:24 -0300
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:14 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 06:06 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-27 10:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 11:12 +0100
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 14:21 -0400
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-27 11:38 -0700
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 13:51 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 19:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 08:48 +0200
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 20:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 09:09 +0200
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-28 22:25 -0700
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 13:46 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 20:01 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 20:00 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 22:39 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 22:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 19:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:30 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-29 19:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-30 23:39 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:23 -0500
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-26 22:55 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-27 10:00 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-27 10:08 -0700
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-27 12:40 +0000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 14:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-28 12:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-27 12:59 -0700
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 08:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2016-04-28 20:43 +0000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-28 19:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:41 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-29 19:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-29 22:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-29 17:20 -0700
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-04-30 07:10 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-30 01:44 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-30 06:25 -0400
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-04-30 23:58 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 08:55 +0000
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-01 12:26 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 18:25 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-02 14:12 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-02 17:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:58 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 04:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-02 22:11 -0400
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-03 06:59 +0000
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-03 14:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 12:37 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-03 19:00 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 17:07 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 22:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 04:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-03 13:43 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:02 +1000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-06 19:13 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-07 13:14 +0000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-07 16:27 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-08 20:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-07 16:47 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:23 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 12:29 +0100
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-30 12:43 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 19:58 +0100
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-01 06:59 +0000
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-30 15:09 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 08:49 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-01 00:06 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-01 04:36 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 08:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-01 06:04 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-02 14:12 +0000
Re:AM radio Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-30 12:00 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 15:47 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-01 00:15 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-01 12:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-01 15:24 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-02 13:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-02 14:45 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-02 15:51 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-02 16:09 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 07:40 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-03 18:33 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 16:09 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-03 13:47 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:33 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-03 13:35 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-03 18:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 16:09 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:50 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:30 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:27 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:35 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:23 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:43 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 22:08 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-05 19:45 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-06 07:22 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-06 15:34 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 22:50 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 05:35 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:35 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-07 20:01 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:33 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-08 06:52 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 08:35 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-08 14:40 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:41 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 02:36 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-08 11:01 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 08:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 10:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-08 12:17 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 18:57 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 18:34 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 13:39 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-07 20:13 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-05-07 20:45 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 23:45 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-05-07 22:45 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:10 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 14:47 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 13:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:47 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-04 18:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 14:58 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 15:06 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 15:01 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:28 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:06 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-05 08:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-05 12:35 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 18:46 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> - 2016-05-05 21:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-05 22:37 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 20:52 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:28 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:15 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-05 07:05 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-03 13:40 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-04 16:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-05 13:38 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 02:36 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:25 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:48 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 01:20 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-05 12:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-05 14:16 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-05 20:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 10:08 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 13:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:39 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-02 12:49 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-01 07:01 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-01 10:40 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-01 12:22 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 18:22 +0000
Re: Re:AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-01 12:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 18:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-02 13:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 08:24 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-02 13:48 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 05:53 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-02 16:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 08:32 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 21:04 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:18 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:33 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-05-03 14:54 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 23:08 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 14:53 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-04 16:43 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 14:59 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:17 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-05 13:37 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 13:27 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:28 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-05 12:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 02:40 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 08:17 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:59 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-04 15:13 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 14:51 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:26 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 16:09 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-03 21:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 17:40 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 22:56 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 23:38 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:55 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 04:02 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-03 13:37 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-03 17:17 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-03 18:37 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:23 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:24 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 17:37 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 11:07 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:26 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 00:58 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 09:41 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 13:50 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:20 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 14:40 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 08:49 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 10:26 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 13:20 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 14:38 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 07:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:11 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:30 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-05-05 15:14 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 18:34 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:35 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 15:15 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-06 16:41 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 09:43 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 10:03 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-05-22 09:02 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 14:36 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 17:27 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic <hgtr@nospam.com> - 2016-05-23 09:10 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 19:53 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Jim Simon" <887jas@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 10:48 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 21:57 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic " Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 13:36 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic " Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 10:58 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:34 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 14:46 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-05 15:35 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 02:41 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:50 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-06 18:10 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 23:05 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-07 13:14 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:40 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 13:54 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-07 15:24 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:13 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:19 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 15:46 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:27 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 07:00 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:25 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 18:23 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 19:16 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-08 14:19 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-08 10:36 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-09 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 12:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic pechter@pechter.net (William Pechter) - 2016-05-09 22:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-08 12:17 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-08 16:56 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 11:58 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-09 19:06 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-09 22:33 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 09:47 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic " Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:00 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-23 11:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-09 14:56 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-09 19:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-09 20:39 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-10 19:41 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 11:58 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 10:49 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 12:28 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:47 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:48 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-08 20:51 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 20:43 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 20:05 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 22:46 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-07 21:33 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-09 12:43 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-07 19:18 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 09:41 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 05:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:34 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 09:39 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:00 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:22 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-05 16:02 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 07:31 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 14:44 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 08:56 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-07 13:14 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:42 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.imvalid> - 2016-05-07 22:15 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-07 15:51 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 02:29 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 16:14 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 10:28 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:52 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-08 15:05 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 09:38 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-08 19:43 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 13:05 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 08:18 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 20:51 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 13:17 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:42 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-09 08:48 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-09 12:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 12:43 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-09 15:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 21:39 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-10 13:25 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-09 15:09 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 23:57 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-11 07:07 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 15:23 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-10 12:34 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:45 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 15:27 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:53 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-10 12:34 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-10 13:03 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-11 12:18 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-11 13:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-12 13:04 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-12 14:44 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-12 15:47 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-13 12:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 09:00 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-13 10:00 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 11:06 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 18:16 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 12:24 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 20:25 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 14:27 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-14 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-14 15:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-14 21:07 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-14 15:12 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-14 16:15 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-14 19:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-14 19:17 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-15 10:28 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-15 11:37 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-15 09:16 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-15 09:21 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-15 09:55 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-15 10:26 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-15 15:19 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-15 09:57 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-15 14:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-15 14:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-16 20:26 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-17 12:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 16:26 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-12 11:37 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 03:19 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-11 09:53 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 10:18 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-11 16:29 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-11 14:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 13:59 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-11 21:37 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 21:37 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-12 12:39 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-12 14:43 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-12 19:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-11 21:11 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 05:00 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 15:56 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 10:56 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:18 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-10 16:00 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-11 07:16 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 10:53 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-10 17:22 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 15:18 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-10 18:20 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 05:23 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-10 19:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 06:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-13 12:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-13 12:43 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-15 14:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-09 16:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-09 18:07 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-09 14:47 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 10:06 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 11:57 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 05:15 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 06:11 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 23:49 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 05:06 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 06:07 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 08:30 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 20:30 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-16 22:39 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mrr@sambook.reistad.name (Morten Reistad) - 2016-05-17 11:10 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 16:19 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 20:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:45 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-10 16:01 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 15:20 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 22:59 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-10 19:15 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 10:53 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 10:42 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 18:38 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 12:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:36 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:32 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:13 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 00:32 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 10:36 +1000
Re: Re:AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:00 +1000
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-02 13:07 +0000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-30 15:19 -0300
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 18:31 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-27 07:48 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 16:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-28 22:03 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 12:50 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-26 12:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-26 11:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-26 18:28 +0200
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:24 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 16:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:33 -0500
Re: Qbasic Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-04-26 20:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-27 00:34 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Jack Brown" <7865jb@nospam.com> - 2016-04-27 14:23 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 03:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 06:02 +1000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-26 22:42 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:21 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 23:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 02:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 11:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 10:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 11:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 18:39 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 18:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 17:38 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-19 19:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 09:13 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 07:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 13:19 +0100
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-19 17:20 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-19 13:55 +0200
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-19 18:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-19 16:47 -0300
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-18 16:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 17:26 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 19:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 07:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-19 14:15 +0000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 21:14 -0500
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-19 11:52 -0700
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-19 16:04 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-19 17:07 -0300
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-19 16:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-20 00:45 -0300
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-19 21:59 -0700
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-04-20 06:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-20 10:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-19 21:56 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 01:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-20 10:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-20 10:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 18:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:03 +1000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:47 -0700
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:53 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-17 11:03 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-17 07:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-17 14:03 +0000
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-17 14:16 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-17 12:09 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:37 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-17 20:09 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 18:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-18 12:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 13:31 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:46 +1000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:42 +1000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-18 03:27 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-17 07:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-17 20:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:48 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 09:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:52 -0700
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:51 +0100
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-18 12:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:53 -0700
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-18 19:02 +0000
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-18 19:04 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-19 11:28 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 11:13 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-16 06:33 -0700
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-16 12:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-16 07:24 -0400
Re: Wikipedia interest, was Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-16 13:10 -0700
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:01 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-17 11:57 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:57 +0100
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 08:39 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:54 +0100
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-04-18 11:23 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 14:47 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-18 15:44 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:00 -0400
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-17 21:27 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 06:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 10:51 +0000
Epigenetics (was Re: Qbasic) Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-18 15:48 -0300
Re: Epigenetics (was Re: Qbasic) Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 21:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 12:06 +1000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:21 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 07:55 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-12 11:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 17:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:17 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-13 17:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 07:37 +1000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:12 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 12:15 +1000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-05 10:26 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:39 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:08 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-06 07:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 19:44 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-06 12:49 -0500
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-05 12:42 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:42 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:14 +1000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 11:23 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 15:57 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-04 14:25 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:58 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:26 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 22:02 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 22:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-05 09:32 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-05 16:00 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:26 -0400
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-11 21:25 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-05 22:56 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-06 09:34 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-06 12:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-11 22:01 -0500
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 05:35 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #163327 |
In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid says... > > In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: > >On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: > >><mausg@mail.com> wrote: > >>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: > >>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT > >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near > >>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon Express > >>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> NASA are idiots. > >>>> > >>> because? > >>> > >>> > >> > >> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make sense to > >> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some > >> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese > >> passport to go there in a few years. > >> > > > >I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it > >forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on > >the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule > > at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very > >unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better > >goal. > > Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in Siberia > or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average > Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering magnetic > field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar > particles. > > Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and > back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from > the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an > emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few > extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break > a moon budget. "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the Moon. > But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of > magnitude more difficult. The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an insurmountable obstacle?
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| From | "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 02:35 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dp6jqlFer1iU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163333 |
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org... > In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, > first@last.name.invalid says... >> >> In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >> >On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >><mausg@mail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >> >>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >> >>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT >> >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near >> >>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon >> >>>>> Express >> >>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> NASA are idiots. >> >>>> >> >>> because? >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make >> >> sense to >> >> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some >> >> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese >> >> passport to go there in a few years. >> >> >> > >> >I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it >> >forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on >> >the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule >> > at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very >> >unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better >> >goal. >> >> Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in >> Siberia >> or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average >> Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering >> magnetic >> field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar >> particles. >> >> Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and >> back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from >> the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an >> emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few >> extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break >> a moon budget. > > "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do > with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the > Moon. > >> But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of >> magnitude more difficult. > > The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. > > Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an > insurmountable obstacle? Because some things are. Try farting your way to the moon for example.
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| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 20:01 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <85n10d-dq6.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163345 |
In article <dp6jqlFer1iU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: > > >"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >news:MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org... >> In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >> first@last.name.invalid says... >>> >>> In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>> >On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >><mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>> >>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT >>> >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near >>> >>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon >>> >>>>> Express >>> >>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> NASA are idiots. >>> >>>> >>> >>> because? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make >>> >> sense to >>> >> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some >>> >> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese >>> >> passport to go there in a few years. >>> >> >>> > >>> >I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it >>> >forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on >>> >the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule >>> > at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very >>> >unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better >>> >goal. >>> >>> Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in >>> Siberia >>> or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average >>> Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering >>> magnetic >>> field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar >>> particles. >>> >>> Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and >>> back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from >>> the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an >>> emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few >>> extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break >>> a moon budget. >> >> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do >> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the >> Moon. Oh, so I created an English word? It is self-evident. Bailout. >>> But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of >>> magnitude more difficult. >> >> The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. >> >> Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an >> insurmountable obstacle? > >Because some things are. Try farting your way to the moon for example. No, it is not insurmountable. But it is WAY more difficult going to Mars than to the moon. Not least if you want to do it sort-of-safely, and have the option to come back. An escape system from the moon duplicating Apollo would need the Apollo LM ascent stage, the Command and Service modules. The first two weigh around 5 tons each, the latter around 25; 18 of which are propellant. This means ~18 tons per person. A CM/SM combo could be had in high moon orbit for decades, made to descend on demand. The LM would need some maintenance, but a fuel&comsumables store and some solar panels to charge the batteries shoul mostly do it. The crew would spend s few hours there, so no food and only a little water would be needed, plus some oxygen and scrubber. The CM/SM would need up to 6 days of travel time, given pessimal orbit alignments. On Mars we are in a whole different league. At ~$300-900/gram for transport; vs ~$50-100 for transport to the moon (at scales, suitable for humans) Mars is several times as expensive, The speed to get from moon surface to low moon orbit is around 1.6 km/sec. Similar for Mars is around 4.7 (to slightly higher orbit due to athmosphere). This is three times as large. This is the limiting factor in terms of cost. The LM Ascent stage would need to grow from around 5 tons to about 35, by some back of the envelope calculations; increasing the fuel load from ~1800 kg to around ~22000 kg, and with a lot bigger and heavier rockets. This is idealised figures, based on a very flimsy shell like the LM. If we go by the low transport costs this is ~300 x 35 000 000 for Mars, and ~50 x 5 000 000 to return two people to orbit from Moon. $ 10-11 billion for the Mars lander, $25 million for the Lunar lander. (this is just mass transport costs, the crafts themselves are extra). But a 1:500 cost differential should be reasonable. The transport from the moon was 3.5 to 6 days. From Mars to earth is a minimum of 6.5 months, but the maximum if you totally blow the launch windows is in excess of two years; over 2/3rds of which is spent in high Mars orbit. Just feeding the humans for such a period implies a quite huge mass, and you would need shielding and redundancy for the craft. Budgeting 20x the cost of the earth-moon craft should be a low one. The upside of this is that a trip to the moons of Jupiter or Saturn would not be much more expensive, just take longer. Apollo cost $98 billion. A mars project bringing a similar number of people back and forth with a similar degree of safety would cost at least 200x as much. $20 trillion, anyone? -- mrr I'll stick with an army of unmanned probes instead.
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 17:33 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <MPG.319829377ea5de0b98a17b@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #163353 |
In article <85n10d-dq6.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid says... > > In article <dp6jqlFer1iU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message > >news:MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org... > >> In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, > >> first@last.name.invalid says... > >>> > >>> In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: > >>> >On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>> >><mausg@mail.com> wrote: > >>> >>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>> >>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: > >>> >>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >>> >>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT > >>> >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. > >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near > >>> >>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. > >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon > >>> >>>>> Express > >>> >>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> NASA are idiots. > >>> >>>> > >>> >>> because? > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >> > >>> >> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make > >>> >> sense to > >>> >> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some > >>> >> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese > >>> >> passport to go there in a few years. > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> >I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it > >>> >forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on > >>> >the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule > >>> > at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very > >>> >unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better > >>> >goal. > >>> > >>> Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in > >>> Siberia > >>> or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average > >>> Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering > >>> magnetic > >>> field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar > >>> particles. > >>> > >>> Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and > >>> back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from > >>> the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an > >>> emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few > >>> extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break > >>> a moon budget. > >> > >> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do > >> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the > >> Moon. > > Oh, so I created an English word? > > It is self-evident. Bailout. > > >>> But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of > >>> magnitude more difficult. > >> > >> The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. > >> > >> Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an > >> insurmountable obstacle? > > > >Because some things are. Try farting your way to the moon for example. > > No, it is not insurmountable. But it is WAY more difficult going to Mars > than to the moon. Not least if you want to do it sort-of-safely, and > have the option to come back. > > An escape system from the moon duplicating Apollo would need the Apollo > LM ascent stage, the Command and Service modules. The first two weigh > around 5 tons each, the latter around 25; 18 of which are propellant. > > This means ~18 tons per person. > > A CM/SM combo could be had in high moon orbit for decades, made to descend > on demand. The LM would need some maintenance, but a fuel&comsumables store and > some solar panels to charge the batteries shoul mostly do it. The crew > would spend s few hours there, so no food and only a little water would > be needed, plus some oxygen and scrubber. > > The CM/SM would need up to 6 days of travel time, given pessimal orbit > alignments. > > On Mars we are in a whole different league. At ~$300-900/gram for transport; > vs ~$50-100 for transport to the moon (at scales, suitable for humans) Mars > is several times as expensive, > > The speed to get from moon surface to low moon orbit is around 1.6 km/sec. > Similar for Mars is around 4.7 (to slightly higher orbit due to athmosphere). > This is three times as large. This is the limiting factor in terms of cost. > The LM Ascent stage would need to grow from around 5 tons to about 35, by some > back of the envelope calculations; increasing the fuel load from ~1800 kg > to around ~22000 kg, and with a lot bigger and heavier rockets. This is > idealised figures, based on a very flimsy shell like the LM. > > If we go by the low transport costs this is ~300 x 35 000 000 for Mars, and > ~50 x 5 000 000 to return two people to orbit from Moon. $ 10-11 billion > for the Mars lander, $25 million for the Lunar lander. > > (this is just mass transport costs, the crafts themselves are extra). But a > 1:500 cost differential should be reasonable. > > The transport from the moon was 3.5 to 6 days. From Mars to earth is a > minimum of 6.5 months, but the maximum if you totally blow the launch > windows is in excess of two years; over 2/3rds of which is spent in high > Mars orbit. > > Just feeding the humans for such a period implies a quite huge mass, > and you would need shielding and redundancy for the craft. Budgeting > 20x the cost of the earth-moon craft should be a low one. > > The upside of this is that a trip to the moons of Jupiter or Saturn > would not be much more expensive, just take longer. > > Apollo cost $98 billion. A mars project bringing a similar number > of people back and forth with a similar degree of safety would cost > at least 200x as much. $20 trillion, anyone? > > -- mrr > > I'll stick with an army of unmanned probes instead. > Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic".
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 06:52 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <20160508065209.fdfd15c8e2bc7f9976774501@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #163370 |
On Sat, 7 May 2016 17:33:33 -0400 "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so > nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". More like "With the best we have today the cost is prohibitive". If you want to refute his arguments then let's see some numbers or at least speculative approaches with potential to shave an order of magnitude or so off his estimates. It's the return journey provisions that make it really expensive and hard, which is why Mars One solves the problem by not making any. I'll give you a start - I've long been of the opinion that if you want to have a human presence in space then you need to start by lifting an infrastructure into space. In the Apollo program everything lifted was used once and thrown away, that's crazy. Suppose you start like this - launch a number of skylab sized vehicles all designed for long service, repeated use and to be linked. Some are orbital transfer vehicles mostly engines, fuel tanks and tugging arrangements. Some are habitats all life support. Some are landers capable of going down and up repeatedly (there will be a limit on how dense an atmosphere they can cope with no doubt - getting ones good enough for Mars will be a challenge for some good engineers). Some may just be fuel tanks. Some more specialised tools. Now your Mars and back mission doesn't involve lifting the hardware and throwing it away instead the cost is all in consumables and an amortised contribution to the infrastructure. Of course that infrastructure is going to be expensive and there will be a *lot* of consumables. This only makes sense if you are planning on doing a lot of human activity in space, and the up front cost and work of designing, building and launching that infrastructure will have no immediate visible return. Instead it will be an immense expense with the purpose of making future immense expenses less immense - that's a hard sell to people who are more likely to question the point of any of the immense expenses. Robot probes are *much* cheaper, this I have to admit no matter how much the SF fan in me wants to see the scenario above happen. The game changer comes when there are enough resources in space to make use of locally available materials instead of lifting everything needed. Getting from here to there seems prohibitively expensive at the moment - a new approach is required. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 08:35 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <MPG.3198fca7d107817298a187@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #163399 |
In article <20160508065209.fdfd15c8e2bc7f9976774501@eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says... > > On Sat, 7 May 2016 17:33:33 -0400 > "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so > > nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". > > More like "With the best we have today the cost is prohibitive". If > you want to refute his arguments then let's see some numbers or at > least speculative approaches with potential to shave an order of magnitude > or so off his estimates. It's the return journey provisions that make it > really expensive and hard, which is why Mars One solves the problem by not > making any. > > I'll give you a start - I've long been of the opinion that if you > want to have a human presence in space then you need to start by lifting an > infrastructure into space. In the Apollo program everything lifted was used > once and thrown away, that's crazy. > > Suppose you start like this - launch a number of skylab sized > vehicles all designed for long service, repeated use and to be linked. Some > are orbital transfer vehicles mostly engines, fuel tanks and tugging > arrangements. Some are habitats all life support. Some are landers capable > of going down and up repeatedly (there will be a limit on how dense an > atmosphere they can cope with no doubt - getting ones good enough for Mars > will be a challenge for some good engineers). Some may just be fuel tanks. > Some more specialised tools. > > Now your Mars and back mission doesn't involve lifting the hardware > and throwing it away instead the cost is all in consumables and an amortised > contribution to the infrastructure. > > Of course that infrastructure is going to be expensive and there > will be a *lot* of consumables. This only makes sense if you are planning > on doing a lot of human activity in space, and the up front cost and work > of designing, building and launching that infrastructure will have no > immediate visible return. Instead it will be an immense expense with the > purpose of making future immense expenses less immense - that's a hard sell > to people who are more likely to question the point of any of the immense > expenses. > > Robot probes are *much* cheaper, this I have to admit no matter how > much the SF fan in me wants to see the scenario above happen. > > The game changer comes when there are enough resources in space to > make use of locally available materials instead of lifting everything > needed. Getting from here to there seems prohibitively expensive at the > moment - a new approach is required. All of you need to look at this picture and then find out what it's a picture of and consider the ramifications: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_reusable_launch_system_development _program#/media/File:CRS-8_(26239020092).jpg>
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 14:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <20160508144012.b65efe273248d33c76dab761@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #163407 |
On Sun, 8 May 2016 08:35:40 -0400 "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > In article <20160508065209.fdfd15c8e2bc7f9976774501@eircom.net>, > steveo@eircom.net says... > > > > The game changer comes when there are enough resources in space > > to make use of locally available materials instead of lifting everything > > needed. Getting from here to there seems prohibitively expensive at the > > moment - a new approach is required. > > All of you need to look at this picture and then find out what it's a > picture of and consider the ramifications: > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_reusable_launch_system_development > _program#/media/File:CRS-8_(26239020092).jpg> A good start. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-09 03:41 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dp9c35F1bjeU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163407 |
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.3198fca7d107817298a187@news.eternal-september.org... > In article <20160508065209.fdfd15c8e2bc7f9976774501@eircom.net>, > steveo@eircom.net says... >> >> On Sat, 7 May 2016 17:33:33 -0400 >> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic >> > so >> > nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". >> >> More like "With the best we have today the cost is prohibitive". If >> you want to refute his arguments then let's see some numbers or at >> least speculative approaches with potential to shave an order of >> magnitude >> or so off his estimates. It's the return journey provisions that make it >> really expensive and hard, which is why Mars One solves the problem by >> not >> making any. >> >> I'll give you a start - I've long been of the opinion that if you >> want to have a human presence in space then you need to start by lifting >> an >> infrastructure into space. In the Apollo program everything lifted was >> used >> once and thrown away, that's crazy. >> >> Suppose you start like this - launch a number of skylab sized >> vehicles all designed for long service, repeated use and to be linked. >> Some >> are orbital transfer vehicles mostly engines, fuel tanks and tugging >> arrangements. Some are habitats all life support. Some are landers >> capable >> of going down and up repeatedly (there will be a limit on how dense an >> atmosphere they can cope with no doubt - getting ones good enough for >> Mars >> will be a challenge for some good engineers). Some may just be fuel >> tanks. >> Some more specialised tools. >> >> Now your Mars and back mission doesn't involve lifting the hardware >> and throwing it away instead the cost is all in consumables and an >> amortised >> contribution to the infrastructure. >> >> Of course that infrastructure is going to be expensive and there >> will be a *lot* of consumables. This only makes sense if you are planning >> on doing a lot of human activity in space, and the up front cost and work >> of designing, building and launching that infrastructure will have no >> immediate visible return. Instead it will be an immense expense with the >> purpose of making future immense expenses less immense - that's a hard >> sell >> to people who are more likely to question the point of any of the immense >> expenses. >> >> Robot probes are *much* cheaper, this I have to admit no matter how >> much the SF fan in me wants to see the scenario above happen. >> >> The game changer comes when there are enough resources in space to >> make use of locally available materials instead of lifting everything >> needed. Getting from here to there seems prohibitively expensive at the >> moment - a new approach is required. > > All of you need to look at this picture and then find out what it's a > picture of and consider the ramifications: > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_reusable_launch_system_development > _program#/media/File:CRS-8_(26239020092).jpg> Useless for getting people to Mars and back safely and affordably. And the other crucial point is what would be the point of that immense cost anyway ? Even men on the moon made no sense at all except as a form of cold war one up manship when the west ended up in space after the Russians and wanted to do something about that.
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| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 02:36 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <k9e20d-uq7.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163370 |
In article <MPG.319829377ea5de0b98a17b@news.eternal-september.org>, J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >In article <85n10d-dq6.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >first@last.name.invalid says... >> >> In article <dp6jqlFer1iU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > >> >"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >> >news:MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org... >> >> In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >> >> first@last.name.invalid says... >> >>> >> >>> In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >> >>> >On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> >><mausg@mail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >> >>> >>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT >> >>> >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near >> >>> >>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon >> >>> >>>>> Express >> >>> >>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> NASA are idiots. >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>> because? >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make >> >>> >> sense to >> >>> >> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some >> >>> >> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese >> >>> >> passport to go there in a few years. >> >>> >> >> >>> > >> >>> >I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it >> >>> >forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on >> >>> >the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule >> >>> > at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very >> >>> >unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better >> >>> >goal. >> >>> >> >>> Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in >> >>> Siberia >> >>> or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average >> >>> Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering >> >>> magnetic >> >>> field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar >> >>> particles. >> >>> >> >>> Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and >> >>> back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from >> >>> the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an >> >>> emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few >> >>> extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break >> >>> a moon budget. >> >> >> >> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do >> >> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the >> >> Moon. >> >> Oh, so I created an English word? >> >> It is self-evident. Bailout. >> >> >>> But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of >> >>> magnitude more difficult. >> >> >> >> The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. >> >> >> >> Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an >> >> insurmountable obstacle? >> > >> >Because some things are. Try farting your way to the moon for example. >> >> No, it is not insurmountable. But it is WAY more difficult going to Mars >> than to the moon. Not least if you want to do it sort-of-safely, and >> have the option to come back. >> >> An escape system from the moon duplicating Apollo would need the Apollo >> LM ascent stage, the Command and Service modules. The first two weigh >> around 5 tons each, the latter around 25; 18 of which are propellant. >> >> This means ~18 tons per person. >> >> A CM/SM combo could be had in high moon orbit for decades, made to descend >> on demand. The LM would need some maintenance, but a fuel&comsumables store and >> some solar panels to charge the batteries shoul mostly do it. The crew >> would spend s few hours there, so no food and only a little water would >> be needed, plus some oxygen and scrubber. >> >> The CM/SM would need up to 6 days of travel time, given pessimal orbit >> alignments. >> >> On Mars we are in a whole different league. At ~$300-900/gram for transport; >> vs ~$50-100 for transport to the moon (at scales, suitable for humans) Mars >> is several times as expensive, >> >> The speed to get from moon surface to low moon orbit is around 1.6 km/sec. >> Similar for Mars is around 4.7 (to slightly higher orbit due to athmosphere). >> This is three times as large. This is the limiting factor in terms of cost. >> The LM Ascent stage would need to grow from around 5 tons to about 35, by some >> back of the envelope calculations; increasing the fuel load from ~1800 kg >> to around ~22000 kg, and with a lot bigger and heavier rockets. This is >> idealised figures, based on a very flimsy shell like the LM. >> >> If we go by the low transport costs this is ~300 x 35 000 000 for Mars, and >> ~50 x 5 000 000 to return two people to orbit from Moon. $ 10-11 billion >> for the Mars lander, $25 million for the Lunar lander. >> >> (this is just mass transport costs, the crafts themselves are extra). But a >> 1:500 cost differential should be reasonable. >> >> The transport from the moon was 3.5 to 6 days. From Mars to earth is a >> minimum of 6.5 months, but the maximum if you totally blow the launch >> windows is in excess of two years; over 2/3rds of which is spent in high >> Mars orbit. >> >> Just feeding the humans for such a period implies a quite huge mass, >> and you would need shielding and redundancy for the craft. Budgeting >> 20x the cost of the earth-moon craft should be a low one. >> >> The upside of this is that a trip to the moons of Jupiter or Saturn >> would not be much more expensive, just take longer. >> >> Apollo cost $98 billion. A mars project bringing a similar number >> of people back and forth with a similar degree of safety would cost >> at least 200x as much. $20 trillion, anyone? >> >> -- mrr >> >> I'll stick with an army of unmanned probes instead. >> > >Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so >nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". No, it is "A jumbo flying across oceans safely and at mach 0.8 is going to cost a hell of a lot more than a Sopwith Camel or a Spitfire to build.". Until we fix the cost for bringing mass into space we cannot afford to go to mars bringing humans there and back safely. -- mrr
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 11:01 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <20160508110157.9771010daf4b31b2270a1f9b@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #163401 |
On Sun, 8 May 2016 02:36:36 +0200 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: > In article <MPG.319829377ea5de0b98a17b@news.eternal-september.org>, > J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > >Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so > >nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". > > No, it is "A jumbo flying across oceans safely and at mach 0.8 is going > to cost a hell of a lot more than a Sopwith Camel or a Spitfire to > build.". Especially if you only know how to build Sopwith Camels and there are no facilities on the other side. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 08:29 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <MPG.3198fb4fe6dd7e6398a186@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #163401 |
In article <k9e20d-uq7.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid says... > > In article <MPG.319829377ea5de0b98a17b@news.eternal-september.org>, > J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > >In article <85n10d-dq6.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, > >first@last.name.invalid says... > >> > >> In article <dp6jqlFer1iU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> >"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message > >> >news:MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org... > >> >> In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, > >> >> first@last.name.invalid says... > >> >>> > >> >>> In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: > >> >>> >On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >>> >><mausg@mail.com> wrote: > >> >>> >>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >>> >>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: > >> >>> >>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >> >>> >>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT > >> >>> >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. > >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near > >> >>> >>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. > >> >>> >>>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon > >> >>> >>>>> Express > >> >>> >>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. > >> >>> >>>>> > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> NASA are idiots. > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>> because? > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make > >> >>> >> sense to > >> >>> >> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some > >> >>> >> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese > >> >>> >> passport to go there in a few years. > >> >>> >> > >> >>> > > >> >>> >I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it > >> >>> >forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on > >> >>> >the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule > >> >>> > at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very > >> >>> >unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better > >> >>> >goal. > >> >>> > >> >>> Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in > >> >>> Siberia > >> >>> or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average > >> >>> Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering > >> >>> magnetic > >> >>> field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar > >> >>> particles. > >> >>> > >> >>> Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and > >> >>> back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from > >> >>> the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an > >> >>> emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few > >> >>> extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break > >> >>> a moon budget. > >> >> > >> >> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do > >> >> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the > >> >> Moon. > >> > >> Oh, so I created an English word? > >> > >> It is self-evident. Bailout. > >> > >> >>> But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of > >> >>> magnitude more difficult. > >> >> > >> >> The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. > >> >> > >> >> Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an > >> >> insurmountable obstacle? > >> > > >> >Because some things are. Try farting your way to the moon for example. > >> > >> No, it is not insurmountable. But it is WAY more difficult going to Mars > >> than to the moon. Not least if you want to do it sort-of-safely, and > >> have the option to come back. > >> > >> An escape system from the moon duplicating Apollo would need the Apollo > >> LM ascent stage, the Command and Service modules. The first two weigh > >> around 5 tons each, the latter around 25; 18 of which are propellant. > >> > >> This means ~18 tons per person. > >> > >> A CM/SM combo could be had in high moon orbit for decades, made to descend > >> on demand. The LM would need some maintenance, but a fuel&comsumables store and > >> some solar panels to charge the batteries shoul mostly do it. The crew > >> would spend s few hours there, so no food and only a little water would > >> be needed, plus some oxygen and scrubber. > >> > >> The CM/SM would need up to 6 days of travel time, given pessimal orbit > >> alignments. > >> > >> On Mars we are in a whole different league. At ~$300-900/gram for transport; > >> vs ~$50-100 for transport to the moon (at scales, suitable for humans) Mars > >> is several times as expensive, > >> > >> The speed to get from moon surface to low moon orbit is around 1.6 km/sec. > >> Similar for Mars is around 4.7 (to slightly higher orbit due to athmosphere). > >> This is three times as large. This is the limiting factor in terms of cost. > >> The LM Ascent stage would need to grow from around 5 tons to about 35, by some > >> back of the envelope calculations; increasing the fuel load from ~1800 kg > >> to around ~22000 kg, and with a lot bigger and heavier rockets. This is > >> idealised figures, based on a very flimsy shell like the LM. > >> > >> If we go by the low transport costs this is ~300 x 35 000 000 for Mars, and > >> ~50 x 5 000 000 to return two people to orbit from Moon. $ 10-11 billion > >> for the Mars lander, $25 million for the Lunar lander. > >> > >> (this is just mass transport costs, the crafts themselves are extra). But a > >> 1:500 cost differential should be reasonable. > >> > >> The transport from the moon was 3.5 to 6 days. From Mars to earth is a > >> minimum of 6.5 months, but the maximum if you totally blow the launch > >> windows is in excess of two years; over 2/3rds of which is spent in high > >> Mars orbit. > >> > >> Just feeding the humans for such a period implies a quite huge mass, > >> and you would need shielding and redundancy for the craft. Budgeting > >> 20x the cost of the earth-moon craft should be a low one. > >> > >> The upside of this is that a trip to the moons of Jupiter or Saturn > >> would not be much more expensive, just take longer. > >> > >> Apollo cost $98 billion. A mars project bringing a similar number > >> of people back and forth with a similar degree of safety would cost > >> at least 200x as much. $20 trillion, anyone? > >> > >> -- mrr > >> > >> I'll stick with an army of unmanned probes instead. > >> > > > >Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so > >nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". > > No, it is "A jumbo flying across oceans safely and at mach 0.8 is going > to cost a hell of a lot more than a Sopwith Camel or a Spitfire to > build.". You aren't thinking in terms of "a jumbo", you are thinking in terms of a primitive piece of crap. > Until we fix the cost for bringing mass into space we cannot afford to > go to mars bringing humans there and back safely. And you aren't going to fix that with primitive pieces of crap.
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| From | JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 10:40 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <3cnuibla8ai8jej57488qd3s27k4q6l471@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #163401 |
On Sun, 8 May 2016 02:36:36 +0200, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >In article <MPG.319829377ea5de0b98a17b@news.eternal-september.org>, >J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>In article <85n10d-dq6.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>first@last.name.invalid says... >>> >>> In article <dp6jqlFer1iU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> >"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> >news:MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org... >>> >> In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>> >> first@last.name.invalid says... >>> >>> >>> >>> In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> >><mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT >>> >>> >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. >>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near >>> >>> >>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. >>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon >>> >>> >>>>> Express >>> >>> >>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. >>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> NASA are idiots. >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> because? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make >>> >>> >> sense to >>> >>> >> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some >>> >>> >> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese >>> >>> >> passport to go there in a few years. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it >>> >>> >forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on >>> >>> >the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule >>> >>> > at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very >>> >>> >unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better >>> >>> >goal. >>> >>> >>> >>> Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in >>> >>> Siberia >>> >>> or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average >>> >>> Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering >>> >>> magnetic >>> >>> field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar >>> >>> particles. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and >>> >>> back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from >>> >>> the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an >>> >>> emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few >>> >>> extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break >>> >>> a moon budget. >>> >> >>> >> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do >>> >> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the >>> >> Moon. >>> >>> Oh, so I created an English word? >>> >>> It is self-evident. Bailout. >>> >>> >>> But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of >>> >>> magnitude more difficult. >>> >> >>> >> The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. >>> >> >>> >> Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an >>> >> insurmountable obstacle? >>> > >>> >Because some things are. Try farting your way to the moon for example. >>> >>> No, it is not insurmountable. But it is WAY more difficult going to Mars >>> than to the moon. Not least if you want to do it sort-of-safely, and >>> have the option to come back. >>> >>> An escape system from the moon duplicating Apollo would need the Apollo >>> LM ascent stage, the Command and Service modules. The first two weigh >>> around 5 tons each, the latter around 25; 18 of which are propellant. >>> >>> This means ~18 tons per person. >>> >>> A CM/SM combo could be had in high moon orbit for decades, made to descend >>> on demand. The LM would need some maintenance, but a fuel&comsumables store and >>> some solar panels to charge the batteries shoul mostly do it. The crew >>> would spend s few hours there, so no food and only a little water would >>> be needed, plus some oxygen and scrubber. >>> >>> The CM/SM would need up to 6 days of travel time, given pessimal orbit >>> alignments. >>> >>> On Mars we are in a whole different league. At ~$300-900/gram for transport; >>> vs ~$50-100 for transport to the moon (at scales, suitable for humans) Mars >>> is several times as expensive, >>> >>> The speed to get from moon surface to low moon orbit is around 1.6 km/sec. >>> Similar for Mars is around 4.7 (to slightly higher orbit due to athmosphere). >>> This is three times as large. This is the limiting factor in terms of cost. >>> The LM Ascent stage would need to grow from around 5 tons to about 35, by some >>> back of the envelope calculations; increasing the fuel load from ~1800 kg >>> to around ~22000 kg, and with a lot bigger and heavier rockets. This is >>> idealised figures, based on a very flimsy shell like the LM. >>> >>> If we go by the low transport costs this is ~300 x 35 000 000 for Mars, and >>> ~50 x 5 000 000 to return two people to orbit from Moon. $ 10-11 billion >>> for the Mars lander, $25 million for the Lunar lander. >>> >>> (this is just mass transport costs, the crafts themselves are extra). But a >>> 1:500 cost differential should be reasonable. >>> >>> The transport from the moon was 3.5 to 6 days. From Mars to earth is a >>> minimum of 6.5 months, but the maximum if you totally blow the launch >>> windows is in excess of two years; over 2/3rds of which is spent in high >>> Mars orbit. >>> >>> Just feeding the humans for such a period implies a quite huge mass, >>> and you would need shielding and redundancy for the craft. Budgeting >>> 20x the cost of the earth-moon craft should be a low one. >>> >>> The upside of this is that a trip to the moons of Jupiter or Saturn >>> would not be much more expensive, just take longer. >>> >>> Apollo cost $98 billion. A mars project bringing a similar number >>> of people back and forth with a similar degree of safety would cost >>> at least 200x as much. $20 trillion, anyone? >>> >>> -- mrr >>> >>> I'll stick with an army of unmanned probes instead. >>> >> >>Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so >>nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". > >No, it is "A jumbo flying across oceans safely and at mach 0.8 is going >to cost a hell of a lot more than a Sopwith Camel or a Spitfire to >build.". > >Until we fix the cost for bringing mass into space we cannot afford to >go to mars bringing humans there and back safely. > >-- mrr > > I'll accept J. Clarke's statement as much of this whining about not being able to go to Mars, not just in this group, sounds more like the type of claims made when the move out of the caves came about and the use of that new thing called fire came into use. -- JimP.
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 12:17 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <1754641425.484416823.781044.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #163423 |
JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, 8 May 2016 02:36:36 +0200, Morten Reistad > <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: > >> In article <MPG.319829377ea5de0b98a17b@news.eternal-september.org>, >> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>> In article <85n10d-dq6.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>> >>>> In article <dp6jqlFer1iU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>> In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT >>>>>>>>>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near >>>>>>>>>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon >>>>>>>>>>>> Express >>>>>>>>>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> NASA are idiots. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> because? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make >>>>>>>>> sense to >>>>>>>>> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some >>>>>>>>> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese >>>>>>>>> passport to go there in a few years. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it >>>>>>>> forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on >>>>>>>> the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule >>>>>>>> at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very >>>>>>>> unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better >>>>>>>> goal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in >>>>>>> Siberia >>>>>>> or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average >>>>>>> Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering >>>>>>> magnetic >>>>>>> field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar >>>>>>> particles. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and >>>>>>> back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from >>>>>>> the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an >>>>>>> emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few >>>>>>> extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break >>>>>>> a moon budget. >>>>>> >>>>>> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do >>>>>> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the >>>>>> Moon. >>>> >>>> Oh, so I created an English word? >>>> >>>> It is self-evident. Bailout. >>>> >>>>>>> But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of >>>>>>> magnitude more difficult. >>>>>> >>>>>> The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. >>>>>> >>>>>> Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an >>>>>> insurmountable obstacle? >>>>> >>>>> Because some things are. Try farting your way to the moon for example. >>>> >>>> No, it is not insurmountable. But it is WAY more difficult going to Mars >>>> than to the moon. Not least if you want to do it sort-of-safely, and >>>> have the option to come back. >>>> >>>> An escape system from the moon duplicating Apollo would need the Apollo >>>> LM ascent stage, the Command and Service modules. The first two weigh >>>> around 5 tons each, the latter around 25; 18 of which are propellant. >>>> >>>> This means ~18 tons per person. >>>> >>>> A CM/SM combo could be had in high moon orbit for decades, made to descend >>>> on demand. The LM would need some maintenance, but a fuel&comsumables store and >>>> some solar panels to charge the batteries shoul mostly do it. The crew >>>> would spend s few hours there, so no food and only a little water would >>>> be needed, plus some oxygen and scrubber. >>>> >>>> The CM/SM would need up to 6 days of travel time, given pessimal orbit >>>> alignments. >>>> >>>> On Mars we are in a whole different league. At ~$300-900/gram for transport; >>>> vs ~$50-100 for transport to the moon (at scales, suitable for humans) Mars >>>> is several times as expensive, >>>> >>>> The speed to get from moon surface to low moon orbit is around 1.6 km/sec. >>>> Similar for Mars is around 4.7 (to slightly higher orbit due to athmosphere). >>>> This is three times as large. This is the limiting factor in terms of cost. >>>> The LM Ascent stage would need to grow from around 5 tons to about 35, by some >>>> back of the envelope calculations; increasing the fuel load from ~1800 kg >>>> to around ~22000 kg, and with a lot bigger and heavier rockets. This is >>>> idealised figures, based on a very flimsy shell like the LM. >>>> >>>> If we go by the low transport costs this is ~300 x 35 000 000 for Mars, and >>>> ~50 x 5 000 000 to return two people to orbit from Moon. $ 10-11 billion >>>> for the Mars lander, $25 million for the Lunar lander. >>>> >>>> (this is just mass transport costs, the crafts themselves are extra). But a >>>> 1:500 cost differential should be reasonable. >>>> >>>> The transport from the moon was 3.5 to 6 days. From Mars to earth is a >>>> minimum of 6.5 months, but the maximum if you totally blow the launch >>>> windows is in excess of two years; over 2/3rds of which is spent in high >>>> Mars orbit. >>>> >>>> Just feeding the humans for such a period implies a quite huge mass, >>>> and you would need shielding and redundancy for the craft. Budgeting >>>> 20x the cost of the earth-moon craft should be a low one. >>>> >>>> The upside of this is that a trip to the moons of Jupiter or Saturn >>>> would not be much more expensive, just take longer. >>>> >>>> Apollo cost $98 billion. A mars project bringing a similar number >>>> of people back and forth with a similar degree of safety would cost >>>> at least 200x as much. $20 trillion, anyone? >>>> >>>> -- mrr >>>> >>>> I'll stick with an army of unmanned probes instead. >>>> >>> >>> Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so >>> nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". >> >> No, it is "A jumbo flying across oceans safely and at mach 0.8 is going >> to cost a hell of a lot more than a Sopwith Camel or a Spitfire to >> build.". >> >> Until we fix the cost for bringing mass into space we cannot afford to >> go to mars bringing humans there and back safely. >> >> -- mrr >> >> > > I'll accept J. Clarke's statement as much of this whining about not > being able to go to Mars, not just in this group, sounds more like the > type of claims made when the move out of the caves came about and the > use of that new thing called fire came into use. > Going to Mars without getting established on the moon would be as if the Portuguese didn't settle the Azores. They made a handy part-way point for Columbus -- Pete
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| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 18:57 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <vn740d-u9a.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163426 |
In article <1754641425.484416823.781044.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Sun, 8 May 2016 02:36:36 +0200, Morten Reistad >> <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >> >>> In article <MPG.319829377ea5de0b98a17b@news.eternal-september.org>, >>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> In article <85n10d-dq6.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>> >>>>> In article <dp6jqlFer1iU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>> In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>>>>> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT >>>>>>>>>>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near >>>>>>>>>>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon >>>>>>>>>>>>> Express >>>>>>>>>>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> NASA are idiots. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> because? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make >>>>>>>>>> sense to >>>>>>>>>> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some >>>>>>>>>> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese >>>>>>>>>> passport to go there in a few years. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it >>>>>>>>> forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on >>>>>>>>> the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule >>>>>>>>> at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very >>>>>>>>> unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better >>>>>>>>> goal. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in >>>>>>>> Siberia >>>>>>>> or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average >>>>>>>> Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering >>>>>>>> magnetic >>>>>>>> field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar >>>>>>>> particles. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and >>>>>>>> back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from >>>>>>>> the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an >>>>>>>> emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few >>>>>>>> extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break >>>>>>>> a moon budget. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do >>>>>>> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the >>>>>>> Moon. >>>>> >>>>> Oh, so I created an English word? >>>>> >>>>> It is self-evident. Bailout. >>>>> >>>>>>>> But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of >>>>>>>> magnitude more difficult. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an >>>>>>> insurmountable obstacle? >>>>>> >>>>>> Because some things are. Try farting your way to the moon for example. >>>>> >>>>> No, it is not insurmountable. But it is WAY more difficult going to Mars >>>>> than to the moon. Not least if you want to do it sort-of-safely, and >>>>> have the option to come back. >>>>> >>>>> An escape system from the moon duplicating Apollo would need the Apollo >>>>> LM ascent stage, the Command and Service modules. The first two weigh >>>>> around 5 tons each, the latter around 25; 18 of which are propellant. >>>>> >>>>> This means ~18 tons per person. >>>>> >>>>> A CM/SM combo could be had in high moon orbit for decades, made to descend >>>>> on demand. The LM would need some maintenance, but a fuel&comsumables store and >>>>> some solar panels to charge the batteries shoul mostly do it. The crew >>>>> would spend s few hours there, so no food and only a little water would >>>>> be needed, plus some oxygen and scrubber. >>>>> >>>>> The CM/SM would need up to 6 days of travel time, given pessimal orbit >>>>> alignments. >>>>> >>>>> On Mars we are in a whole different league. At ~$300-900/gram for transport; >>>>> vs ~$50-100 for transport to the moon (at scales, suitable for humans) Mars >>>>> is several times as expensive, >>>>> >>>>> The speed to get from moon surface to low moon orbit is around 1.6 km/sec. >>>>> Similar for Mars is around 4.7 (to slightly higher orbit due to athmosphere). >>>>> This is three times as large. This is the limiting factor in terms of cost. >>>>> The LM Ascent stage would need to grow from around 5 tons to about 35, by some >>>>> back of the envelope calculations; increasing the fuel load from ~1800 kg >>>>> to around ~22000 kg, and with a lot bigger and heavier rockets. This is >>>>> idealised figures, based on a very flimsy shell like the LM. >>>>> >>>>> If we go by the low transport costs this is ~300 x 35 000 000 for Mars, and >>>>> ~50 x 5 000 000 to return two people to orbit from Moon. $ 10-11 billion >>>>> for the Mars lander, $25 million for the Lunar lander. >>>>> >>>>> (this is just mass transport costs, the crafts themselves are extra). But a >>>>> 1:500 cost differential should be reasonable. >>>>> >>>>> The transport from the moon was 3.5 to 6 days. From Mars to earth is a >>>>> minimum of 6.5 months, but the maximum if you totally blow the launch >>>>> windows is in excess of two years; over 2/3rds of which is spent in high >>>>> Mars orbit. >>>>> >>>>> Just feeding the humans for such a period implies a quite huge mass, >>>>> and you would need shielding and redundancy for the craft. Budgeting >>>>> 20x the cost of the earth-moon craft should be a low one. >>>>> >>>>> The upside of this is that a trip to the moons of Jupiter or Saturn >>>>> would not be much more expensive, just take longer. >>>>> >>>>> Apollo cost $98 billion. A mars project bringing a similar number >>>>> of people back and forth with a similar degree of safety would cost >>>>> at least 200x as much. $20 trillion, anyone? >>>>> >>>>> -- mrr >>>>> >>>>> I'll stick with an army of unmanned probes instead. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so >>>> nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". >>> >>> No, it is "A jumbo flying across oceans safely and at mach 0.8 is going >>> to cost a hell of a lot more than a Sopwith Camel or a Spitfire to >>> build.". >>> >>> Until we fix the cost for bringing mass into space we cannot afford to >>> go to mars bringing humans there and back safely. >>> >>> -- mrr >>> >>> >> >> I'll accept J. Clarke's statement as much of this whining about not >> being able to go to Mars, not just in this group, sounds more like the >> type of claims made when the move out of the caves came about and the >> use of that new thing called fire came into use. >> > >Going to Mars without getting established on the moon would be as if the >Portuguese didn't settle the Azores. They made a handy part-way point for >Columbus We shouldn't take such a big leap as LEO to landing people on Mars in one jump. The moon, and having people there for a year or so will be a good path forward. We need solutions for : * Supplies of food,water and oxygen plus scrubbing of CO2 and water. * Economic mass lifting to space * Shielding from interplanetary particles, small objects and radiation * Bailout and redundancy options. * Habitat construction, excursion suit for long time ex-base travel and energy supplies for these. The moon is less than a week away with known technology, and around 3 seconds of RTT with radio. Video and telephony have known solutions. We can make emergency bailouts with known technology. After we have had the first 4-year deployment on the moon we can start going to Mars. But we should send probes everywhere. Just sterilise them really good first. The moon is also a very good place to bring back samples from other worlds to. A moonbase can be sacrificed if there is some aggressive organism on the sample. The Earth can not. And we can send people back and forth to the moon for around a third of a percent of the cost of going to and from Mars. -- mrr
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| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 18:34 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <fd640d-o5a.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163423 |
In article <3cnuibla8ai8jej57488qd3s27k4q6l471@4ax.com>, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: >On Sun, 8 May 2016 02:36:36 +0200, Morten Reistad ><first@last.name.invalid> wrote: > >>In article <MPG.319829377ea5de0b98a17b@news.eternal-september.org>, >>J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>In article <85n10d-dq6.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>first@last.name.invalid says... >>>> >>>> In article <dp6jqlFer1iU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> >news:MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org... >>>> >> In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, >>>> >> first@last.name.invalid says... >>>> >>> >>>> >>> In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>>> >>> >On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>> >><mausg@mail.com> wrote: >>>> >>> >>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>> >>> >>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT >>>> >>> >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. >>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near >>>> >>> >>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. >>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon >>>> >>> >>>>> Express >>>> >>> >>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> NASA are idiots. >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> because? >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make >>>> >>> >> sense to >>>> >>> >> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some >>>> >>> >> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese >>>> >>> >> passport to go there in a few years. >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> >I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it >>>> >>> >forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on >>>> >>> >the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule >>>> >>> > at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very >>>> >>> >unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better >>>> >>> >goal. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in >>>> >>> Siberia >>>> >>> or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average >>>> >>> Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering >>>> >>> magnetic >>>> >>> field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar >>>> >>> particles. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and >>>> >>> back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from >>>> >>> the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an >>>> >>> emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few >>>> >>> extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break >>>> >>> a moon budget. >>>> >> >>>> >> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do >>>> >> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the >>>> >> Moon. >>>> >>>> Oh, so I created an English word? >>>> >>>> It is self-evident. Bailout. >>>> >>>> >>> But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of >>>> >>> magnitude more difficult. >>>> >> >>>> >> The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. >>>> >> >>>> >> Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an >>>> >> insurmountable obstacle? >>>> > >>>> >Because some things are. Try farting your way to the moon for example. >>>> >>>> No, it is not insurmountable. But it is WAY more difficult going to Mars >>>> than to the moon. Not least if you want to do it sort-of-safely, and >>>> have the option to come back. >>>> >>>> An escape system from the moon duplicating Apollo would need the Apollo >>>> LM ascent stage, the Command and Service modules. The first two weigh >>>> around 5 tons each, the latter around 25; 18 of which are propellant. >>>> >>>> This means ~18 tons per person. >>>> >>>> A CM/SM combo could be had in high moon orbit for decades, made to descend >>>> on demand. The LM would need some maintenance, but a fuel&comsumables store and >>>> some solar panels to charge the batteries shoul mostly do it. The crew >>>> would spend s few hours there, so no food and only a little water would >>>> be needed, plus some oxygen and scrubber. >>>> >>>> The CM/SM would need up to 6 days of travel time, given pessimal orbit >>>> alignments. >>>> >>>> On Mars we are in a whole different league. At ~$300-900/gram for transport; >>>> vs ~$50-100 for transport to the moon (at scales, suitable for humans) Mars >>>> is several times as expensive, >>>> >>>> The speed to get from moon surface to low moon orbit is around 1.6 km/sec. >>>> Similar for Mars is around 4.7 (to slightly higher orbit due to athmosphere). >>>> This is three times as large. This is the limiting factor in terms of cost. >>>> The LM Ascent stage would need to grow from around 5 tons to about 35, by some >>>> back of the envelope calculations; increasing the fuel load from ~1800 kg >>>> to around ~22000 kg, and with a lot bigger and heavier rockets. This is >>>> idealised figures, based on a very flimsy shell like the LM. >>>> >>>> If we go by the low transport costs this is ~300 x 35 000 000 for Mars, and >>>> ~50 x 5 000 000 to return two people to orbit from Moon. $ 10-11 billion >>>> for the Mars lander, $25 million for the Lunar lander. >>>> >>>> (this is just mass transport costs, the crafts themselves are extra). But a >>>> 1:500 cost differential should be reasonable. >>>> >>>> The transport from the moon was 3.5 to 6 days. From Mars to earth is a >>>> minimum of 6.5 months, but the maximum if you totally blow the launch >>>> windows is in excess of two years; over 2/3rds of which is spent in high >>>> Mars orbit. >>>> >>>> Just feeding the humans for such a period implies a quite huge mass, >>>> and you would need shielding and redundancy for the craft. Budgeting >>>> 20x the cost of the earth-moon craft should be a low one. >>>> >>>> The upside of this is that a trip to the moons of Jupiter or Saturn >>>> would not be much more expensive, just take longer. >>>> >>>> Apollo cost $98 billion. A mars project bringing a similar number >>>> of people back and forth with a similar degree of safety would cost >>>> at least 200x as much. $20 trillion, anyone? >>>> >>>> -- mrr >>>> >>>> I'll stick with an army of unmanned probes instead. >>>> >>> >>>Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so >>>nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". >> >>No, it is "A jumbo flying across oceans safely and at mach 0.8 is going >>to cost a hell of a lot more than a Sopwith Camel or a Spitfire to >>build.". >> >>Until we fix the cost for bringing mass into space we cannot afford to >>go to mars bringing humans there and back safely. >> >>-- mrr >> >> > >I'll accept J. Clarke's statement as much of this whining about not >being able to go to Mars, not just in this group, sounds more like the >type of claims made when the move out of the caves came about and the >use of that new thing called fire came into use. If you want this analogy, we have just invented fire. Using wet wood and flint. Very hard with limited effect. We now need to find gasoline. A way to bring stuff into some high earth orbit. Or a high lunar/martian one. A space elevator, perhaps, even though the materials science is a few orders of magnitude behind on that one. Or some catapult. -- mrr
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-08 13:39 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <MPG.319943d32a2fe79498a18a@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #163428 |
In article <fd640d-o5a.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid says... > > In article <3cnuibla8ai8jej57488qd3s27k4q6l471@4ax.com>, > JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Sun, 8 May 2016 02:36:36 +0200, Morten Reistad > ><first@last.name.invalid> wrote: > > > >>In article <MPG.319829377ea5de0b98a17b@news.eternal-september.org>, > >>J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>In article <85n10d-dq6.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, > >>>first@last.name.invalid says... > >>>> > >>>> In article <dp6jqlFer1iU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> >"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message > >>>> >news:MPG.31978100c61db8a398a16f@news.eternal-september.org... > >>>> >> In article <cmcvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>, > >>>> >> first@last.name.invalid says... > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> In article <slrnnipaqk.18n.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote: > >>>> >>> >On 2016-05-06, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>> >>> >><mausg@mail.com> wrote: > >>>> >>> >>> On 2016-05-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>> >>> >>>> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: > >>>> >>> >>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >>>> >>> >>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:50 GMT > >>>> >>> >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >>>> >>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>> >>>>>>> The US is repeating the mid-1960s again. > >>>> >>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>> >>>>>> So we can expect some decent music and a space program in the near > >>>> >>> >>>>>> future then, along with a number of less pleasant things. > >>>> >>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>> >>>>> > >>>> >>> >>>>> NASA is not going back to the Moon but its children are. Moon > >>>> >>> >>>>> Express > >>>> >>> >>>>> plans to land on the Moon next year. > >>>> >>> >>>>> > >>>> >>> >>>> > >>>> >>> >>>> NASA are idiots. > >>>> >>> >>>> > >>>> >>> >>> because? > >>>> >>> >>> > >>>> >>> >>> > >>>> >>> >> > >>>> >>> >> Given all the problems with getting to Mars it would seem to make > >>>> >>> >> sense to > >>>> >>> >> start with something a bit closer and then scale up. Fortunately some > >>>> >>> >> private groups want to go to the Moon, otherwise you'd need a Chinese > >>>> >>> >> passport to go there in a few years. > >>>> >>> >> > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> >I think that Maars is a handy unattainable goal, you can talk about it > >>>> >>> >forever without having to actuallly go there. Consider a Soviet gulag on > >>>> >>> >the Kolmya, it is a veritable paradise compared to Mars, even a capsule > >>>> >>> > at the botom of the ocean would be. Discovering something useful.. very > >>>> >>> >unlikely. A base on the Moon, and on to the asteroids, would be a better > >>>> >>> >goal. > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> Indeed. Even the most inhospitable place on Earth. The cold poles in > >>>> >>> Siberia > >>>> >>> or Antarctica are still several tens of degrees warmer than the average > >>>> >>> Martian winter. And there is breathable air here, and a sheltering > >>>> >>> magnetic > >>>> >>> field protecting us from the constant flux of solar wind and interstellar > >>>> >>> particles. > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> Mars has none of this. The stunts that brought 12 men to the moon and > >>>> >>> back will not make it there. It takes less than a week to get back from > >>>> >>> the moon, and a backup "chute" is perfectly doable. Taking off in an > >>>> >>> emergency chute is just duplicating the Apollo CM and LM. Having a few > >>>> >>> extra LMs deployed and a CM or two in permanent orbit should not break > >>>> >>> a moon budget. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do > >>>> >> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the > >>>> >> Moon. > >>>> > >>>> Oh, so I created an English word? > >>>> > >>>> It is self-evident. Bailout. > >>>> > >>>> >>> But the distance and gravity for Mars make this several orders of > >>>> >>> magnitude more difficult. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little while. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Why does something being difficult seem to you to make it an > >>>> >> insurmountable obstacle? > >>>> > > >>>> >Because some things are. Try farting your way to the moon for example. > >>>> > >>>> No, it is not insurmountable. But it is WAY more difficult going to Mars > >>>> than to the moon. Not least if you want to do it sort-of-safely, and > >>>> have the option to come back. > >>>> > >>>> An escape system from the moon duplicating Apollo would need the Apollo > >>>> LM ascent stage, the Command and Service modules. The first two weigh > >>>> around 5 tons each, the latter around 25; 18 of which are propellant. > >>>> > >>>> This means ~18 tons per person. > >>>> > >>>> A CM/SM combo could be had in high moon orbit for decades, made to descend > >>>> on demand. The LM would need some maintenance, but a fuel&comsumables store and > >>>> some solar panels to charge the batteries shoul mostly do it. The crew > >>>> would spend s few hours there, so no food and only a little water would > >>>> be needed, plus some oxygen and scrubber. > >>>> > >>>> The CM/SM would need up to 6 days of travel time, given pessimal orbit > >>>> alignments. > >>>> > >>>> On Mars we are in a whole different league. At ~$300-900/gram for transport; > >>>> vs ~$50-100 for transport to the moon (at scales, suitable for humans) Mars > >>>> is several times as expensive, > >>>> > >>>> The speed to get from moon surface to low moon orbit is around 1.6 km/sec. > >>>> Similar for Mars is around 4.7 (to slightly higher orbit due to athmosphere). > >>>> This is three times as large. This is the limiting factor in terms of cost. > >>>> The LM Ascent stage would need to grow from around 5 tons to about 35, by some > >>>> back of the envelope calculations; increasing the fuel load from ~1800 kg > >>>> to around ~22000 kg, and with a lot bigger and heavier rockets. This is > >>>> idealised figures, based on a very flimsy shell like the LM. > >>>> > >>>> If we go by the low transport costs this is ~300 x 35 000 000 for Mars, and > >>>> ~50 x 5 000 000 to return two people to orbit from Moon. $ 10-11 billion > >>>> for the Mars lander, $25 million for the Lunar lander. > >>>> > >>>> (this is just mass transport costs, the crafts themselves are extra). But a > >>>> 1:500 cost differential should be reasonable. > >>>> > >>>> The transport from the moon was 3.5 to 6 days. From Mars to earth is a > >>>> minimum of 6.5 months, but the maximum if you totally blow the launch > >>>> windows is in excess of two years; over 2/3rds of which is spent in high > >>>> Mars orbit. > >>>> > >>>> Just feeding the humans for such a period implies a quite huge mass, > >>>> and you would need shielding and redundancy for the craft. Budgeting > >>>> 20x the cost of the earth-moon craft should be a low one. > >>>> > >>>> The upside of this is that a trip to the moons of Jupiter or Saturn > >>>> would not be much more expensive, just take longer. > >>>> > >>>> Apollo cost $98 billion. A mars project bringing a similar number > >>>> of people back and forth with a similar degree of safety would cost > >>>> at least 200x as much. $20 trillion, anyone? > >>>> > >>>> -- mrr > >>>> > >>>> I'll stick with an army of unmanned probes instead. > >>>> > >>> > >>>Your argument is basically "The Wright Flyer can't cross the Atlantic so > >>>nobody can every fly an airplane across the Atlantic". > >> > >>No, it is "A jumbo flying across oceans safely and at mach 0.8 is going > >>to cost a hell of a lot more than a Sopwith Camel or a Spitfire to > >>build.". > >> > >>Until we fix the cost for bringing mass into space we cannot afford to > >>go to mars bringing humans there and back safely. > >> > >>-- mrr > >> > >> > > > >I'll accept J. Clarke's statement as much of this whining about not > >being able to go to Mars, not just in this group, sounds more like the > >type of claims made when the move out of the caves came about and the > >use of that new thing called fire came into use. > > If you want this analogy, we have just invented fire. Using wet wood > and flint. Very hard with limited effect. > > We now need to find gasoline. > > A way to bring stuff into some high earth orbit. Or a high lunar/martian > one. > > A space elevator, perhaps, even though the materials science is a few > orders of magnitude behind on that one. Or some catapult. Or just QUIT SINKING THE DAMNED SHIP AFTER EVERY CROSSING. > > -- mrr
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 20:13 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <2lbtib5n3a49sl3uabf0chsg0ikb5unba1@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #163333 |
On Sat, 7 May 2016 05:35:51 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>"chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do
>with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the
>Moon.
You need a better dictionary. It is most definitely a word:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/chute?s=t
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| From | Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 20:45 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <988c3de0-6f63-4435-a226-2da36ffb688d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #163333 |
On Saturday, May 7, 2016 at 4:36:00 AM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote: ---snipped--- > "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do > with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the > Moon. ---snipped--- Of course "chute" is a word. I wish there was an easy way to check. _______________________________________ Gerard Schildberger
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| From | "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 23:45 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dp7uk1FmlhtU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163390 |
"Gerard Schildberger" wrote: > On Saturday, May 7, 2016 at 4:36:00 AM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote: > ---snipped--- >> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do >> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the >> Moon. > ---snipped--- > Of course "chute" is a word. > > I wish there was an easy way to check. google <define chute> They say it's a word.
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| From | Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 22:45 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <2cd6903f-a6fa-4972-9a7b-8436c520b0f3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #163392 |
On Saturday, May 7, 2016 at 11:45:55 PM UTC-5, Osmium wrote: > "Gerard Schildberger" wrote: > > > > On Saturday, May 7, 2016 at 4:36:00 AM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote: > > ---snipped--- > >> "chute"? That is not a word in English. If you mean something to do > >> with parachutes, parachutes do not help you if you are crashed on the > >> Moon. > > ---snipped--- > > Of course "chute" is a word. > > > > I wish there was an easy way to check. > > google > <define chute> > They say it's a word. I was being very sarcastic. _________ Gerard Schildberger
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