Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #161636 > unrolled thread
| Started by | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000 |
| Last post | 2016-04-11 22:01 -0500 |
| Articles |
20 on this page of 1000+
— 51 participants
Thread has 1157 articles; only the first 1000 are indexed. |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers | Browse in flat view
Thread has 1157 articles; showing the first 1000 in depth-first order. Use the flat group view to see the rest.
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-30 09:15 -0700
Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 04:03 +1100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-03-31 09:12 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 12:12 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 17:39 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:39 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-12 00:12 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 20:44 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-01 21:03 -0400
Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-02 15:12 +1100
Re: Qbasic "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-04-02 15:15 +1100
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-02 05:34 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-02 08:31 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-02 12:21 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-02 20:49 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-03 08:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 10:12 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 19:43 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 15:45 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:29 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 12:18 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 12:00 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 03:51 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 16:42 +0100
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-03 20:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Gatuzo <Gatuzo@mccarragher.org> - 2016-04-03 21:11 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-03 21:42 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 11:56 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 12:47 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 22:53 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-04 06:33 -0700
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-04 14:04 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 15:42 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-04 15:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 17:05 +0100
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-04 23:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 18:42 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-05 03:05 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-12 19:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-04 23:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-12 19:13 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-13 06:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 06:33 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-13 07:52 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 06:30 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-04 17:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:22 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:56 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 12:16 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 12:00 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 18:03 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:53 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:05 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:09 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 18:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:34 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 10:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 07:08 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 07:36 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:48 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-04 09:14 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-04 15:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-04 17:12 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-06 00:39 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-06 09:36 +0100
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 10:31 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:01 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 12:18 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:50 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 14:16 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:20 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 19:24 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:31 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 14:53 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 10:22 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:56 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 11:24 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-04 06:36 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 06:38 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 08:33 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:15 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:40 +1000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:31 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:44 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-05 12:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 08:03 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-12 11:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 05:01 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-12 16:36 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 09:38 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-13 11:11 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 04:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-11 20:51 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:10 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-12 07:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:09 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:07 -0700
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 07:31 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-13 16:48 -0500
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 17:38 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 09:36 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-13 22:11 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 09:35 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-13 21:54 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 13:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-04-13 23:04 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-14 11:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-14 16:20 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:14 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-14 23:23 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-15 16:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 20:17 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-15 11:00 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 04:15 +1000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-02 16:28 -0500
Re: Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-04-02 21:44 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 08:17 +1000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 03:55 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 16:56 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 12:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:21 -0700
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-05 12:49 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-06 16:32 -0700
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 11:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:31 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 04:13 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-02 20:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 11:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-03 05:29 +0100
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 03:57 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 07:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 14:00 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 08:55 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 06:18 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 10:03 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:27 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-03 16:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-03 11:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 11:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-03 11:39 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:55 +1000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:38 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-03 11:14 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 04:01 +1000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 20:31 +0200
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-04 01:58 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 20:50 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 20:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-03 21:52 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 22:55 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:33 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:16 -0500
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 15:54 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 15:54 +0000
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-04 09:22 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:42 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 20:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-03 22:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:38 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-03 06:17 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 10:01 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 17:20 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 12:02 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 03:44 +1000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-03 20:23 +0200
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-03 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:50 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 19:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:40 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 15:00 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 10:23 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:57 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-04 08:41 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:53 +1000
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-05 21:14 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-04 09:10 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-05 11:27 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-05 14:52 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 04:04 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-05 22:50 +0100
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:26 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 05:39 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-04 04:37 +0100
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-03 10:52 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:40 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-04 19:04 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-05 12:57 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-05 13:43 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:38 +1000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-12 11:45 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-12 13:47 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-12 16:50 +0200
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 05:04 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 17:32 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 17:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-12 17:00 -0700
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:18 -0700
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 17:36 -0500
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-14 16:07 +0200
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 12:04 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 09:28 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:47 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-14 11:43 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-14 16:20 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-14 20:35 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-15 09:23 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-15 12:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-15 16:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-15 11:59 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 18:52 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-16 01:45 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 22:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-16 10:13 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 18:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:09 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-17 10:29 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-20 20:36 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-20 19:48 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-16 09:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-16 13:16 +0200
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-16 13:13 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-16 10:36 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-16 20:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-16 20:46 -0700
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-17 09:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-17 12:07 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 08:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-17 09:26 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:51 +1000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:44 +1000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:44 -0700
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:43 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 12:41 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-19 18:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-19 12:00 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 01:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 08:38 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 16:44 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 16:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-18 13:04 -0500
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-18 18:51 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-18 14:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:19 +1000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:13 -0500
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-26 11:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-26 11:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Jack Brown" <7865jb@nospam.com> - 2016-04-28 06:09 +1000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-18 16:12 -0300
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-18 20:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-19 06:20 -0700
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:17 +1000
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 21:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:11 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 14:47 -0400
Re: Qbasic Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-04-19 22:06 -0300
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-20 10:31 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-20 10:55 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-20 11:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-21 08:01 +0200
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-21 12:34 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-20 10:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 15:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 15:25 +0000
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-20 18:07 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 13:07 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-20 11:44 -0700
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-20 15:25 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-21 08:19 -0700
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-21 15:25 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-21 17:58 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-21 11:28 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 07:11 -0500
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-20 17:49 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-21 03:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-21 08:11 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-21 17:58 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-21 12:34 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-21 14:57 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-21 20:20 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-22 11:18 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-21 16:25 -0400
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:15 +1000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 12:21 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 06:03 +0100
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:33 +1000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-22 07:11 +0100
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 05:31 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-22 15:01 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 12:21 +1000
Re: Qbasic Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-04-24 11:21 +0200
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-24 12:43 +0200
Re: Qbasic Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-04-25 07:16 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-25 10:10 +0200
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-25 15:42 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-25 16:55 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name,invalid> - 2016-04-26 00:05 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 06:14 +0100
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-04-26 07:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-26 12:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 13:54 +0100
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-26 10:18 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 16:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-26 11:44 -0500
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-26 18:15 +0200
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-26 22:44 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-27 10:50 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 11:10 +0100
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-24 11:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 07:43 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-24 12:20 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-24 17:01 -0300
Re: Qbasic Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-04-26 21:37 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-26 16:37 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-26 22:16 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Jack Brown" <7865jb@nospam.com> - 2016-04-27 14:18 +1000
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-27 12:39 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 19:32 +0100
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-28 12:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-28 13:43 +0100
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-29 12:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-29 13:39 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-29 15:19 +0200
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-29 14:27 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-29 09:58 -0500
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-29 19:51 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 06:28 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 08:11 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 14:14 +0100
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 09:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 13:54 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 13:46 +1000
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 06:11 +1000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 09:02 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 05:49 +1000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-25 15:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-25 16:55 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-25 23:56 +0200
Re: Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-04-22 01:02 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-22 15:22 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-22 11:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-19 11:21 +0100
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 13:25 -0500
Re: Qbasic Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 13:45 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 15:37 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-19 18:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 19:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-19 17:04 -0300
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 17:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:17 -0500
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:39 -0500
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 12:25 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 06:00 +0100
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:22 +1000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 20:49 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-26 11:02 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-26 17:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-04-26 14:31 -0400
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-26 21:21 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 18:33 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-26 22:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-27 16:19 -0300
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 19:53 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-30 15:24 -0300
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:14 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 06:06 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-27 10:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-27 11:12 +0100
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 14:21 -0400
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-27 11:38 -0700
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 13:51 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 19:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 08:48 +0200
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 20:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 09:09 +0200
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-28 22:25 -0700
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 13:46 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 20:01 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 20:00 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 22:39 -0400
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-27 22:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 19:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:30 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-29 19:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-30 23:39 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:23 -0500
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-26 22:55 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-27 10:00 -0700
Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-04-27 10:08 -0700
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-27 12:40 +0000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-27 14:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-28 12:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-27 12:59 -0700
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-28 08:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2016-04-28 20:43 +0000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-28 19:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:41 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-29 19:30 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-29 22:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-29 17:20 -0700
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-04-30 07:10 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-30 01:44 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-30 06:25 -0400
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-04-30 23:58 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 08:55 +0000
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-01 12:26 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 18:25 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-02 14:12 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-02 17:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:58 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 04:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-02 22:11 -0400
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-03 06:59 +0000
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-03 14:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 12:37 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-03 19:00 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 17:07 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 22:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 04:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-03 13:43 -0700
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:02 +1000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-06 19:13 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-07 13:14 +0000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-07 16:27 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-08 20:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:29 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-07 16:47 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:23 +0000
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 12:29 +0100
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-30 12:43 -0500
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-30 19:58 +0100
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-01 06:59 +0000
Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-04-30 15:09 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 08:49 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-01 00:06 +0200
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-01 04:36 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 08:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-01 06:04 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-02 14:12 +0000
Re:AM radio Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-30 12:00 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 15:47 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-01 00:15 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-01 12:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-01 15:24 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-02 13:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-02 14:45 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-02 15:51 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-02 16:09 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 07:40 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-03 18:33 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 16:09 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-03 13:47 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:33 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-03 13:35 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-03 18:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 16:09 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:50 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:30 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:27 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:35 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:23 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:43 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 22:08 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-05 19:45 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-06 07:22 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-06 15:34 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 22:50 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 05:35 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:35 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-07 20:01 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:33 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-08 06:52 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 08:35 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-08 14:40 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:41 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 02:36 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-08 11:01 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 08:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 10:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-08 12:17 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 18:57 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 18:34 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 13:39 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-07 20:13 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-05-07 20:45 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 23:45 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-05-07 22:45 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:10 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 14:47 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 13:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:47 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-04 18:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 14:58 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 15:06 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 15:01 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:28 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:06 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-05 08:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-05 12:35 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 18:46 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> - 2016-05-05 21:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-05 22:37 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 20:52 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:28 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:15 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-05 07:05 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-03 13:40 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-04 16:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-05-05 13:38 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 02:36 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:25 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:48 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 01:20 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-05 12:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-05 14:16 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-05 20:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 10:08 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 13:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:39 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-02 12:49 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-01 07:01 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-01 10:40 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-01 12:22 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 18:22 +0000
Re: Re:AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-01 12:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-01 18:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-02 13:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 08:24 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-02 13:48 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 05:53 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-02 16:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 08:32 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 21:04 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:18 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-03 16:33 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2016-05-03 14:54 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 23:08 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-04 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 14:53 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-04 16:43 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 14:59 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:17 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-05 13:37 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 13:27 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-04 16:28 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-05 12:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 02:40 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 08:17 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:59 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-04 15:13 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 14:51 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-04 23:26 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 16:09 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-03 21:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-03 17:40 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-03 22:56 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 23:38 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-04 17:55 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 04:02 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-03 11:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-03 13:37 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-03 17:17 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-03 18:37 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:23 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-04 06:24 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 17:37 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 11:07 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:26 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 00:58 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 09:41 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 13:50 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:20 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 14:40 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 08:49 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 10:26 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 13:20 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 14:38 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 07:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:11 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:30 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2016-05-05 15:14 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-05 18:34 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:35 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 15:15 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-06 16:41 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 09:43 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 10:03 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-05-22 09:02 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 14:36 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 17:27 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic <hgtr@nospam.com> - 2016-05-23 09:10 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 19:53 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Jim Simon" <887jas@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 10:48 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 21:57 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic " Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 13:36 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic " Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 10:58 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:34 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-04 13:02 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-04 14:46 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-05 12:25 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-05 15:35 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-06 13:28 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 02:41 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:50 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-06 18:10 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 23:05 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-07 13:14 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:40 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 13:54 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-07 15:24 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:13 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-07 20:19 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 15:46 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:27 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 07:00 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:25 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 18:23 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 19:16 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-08 14:19 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-08 10:36 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-09 15:11 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 12:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic pechter@pechter.net (William Pechter) - 2016-05-09 22:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-08 12:17 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-08 16:56 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 11:58 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-09 19:06 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-09 22:33 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 09:47 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic " Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:00 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-23 11:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-09 14:56 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-09 19:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-09 20:39 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-10 19:41 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 11:58 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 10:49 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 12:28 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:47 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:48 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-08 20:51 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 20:43 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-07 20:05 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 22:46 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-07 21:33 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-09 12:43 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-07 19:18 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 09:41 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 05:20 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:34 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-22 09:39 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:00 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 05:22 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-05 16:02 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 07:31 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-06 14:44 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 08:56 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-07 13:14 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 02:42 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.imvalid> - 2016-05-07 22:15 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-07 15:51 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 02:29 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-08 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 16:14 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 10:28 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:52 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-08 15:05 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 09:38 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-08 19:43 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 13:05 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 08:18 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 20:51 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 13:17 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:42 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-09 08:48 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-09 12:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 12:43 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-09 15:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 21:39 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-10 13:25 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-09 15:09 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 23:57 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-11 07:07 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 15:23 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-10 12:34 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:45 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-09 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 15:27 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:53 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-10 12:34 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-10 13:03 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-11 12:18 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-11 13:13 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-12 13:04 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-12 14:44 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-12 15:47 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-13 12:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 09:00 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-13 10:00 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 11:06 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 18:16 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 12:24 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 20:25 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 14:27 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-14 13:08 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-14 15:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-14 21:07 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-14 15:12 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-14 16:15 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-14 19:42 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-14 19:17 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-15 10:28 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-15 11:37 -0700
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-15 09:16 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-15 09:21 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-15 09:55 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-15 10:26 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-15 15:19 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-15 09:57 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-15 14:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-15 14:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-16 20:26 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-17 12:32 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 16:26 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-12 11:37 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 03:19 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-11 09:53 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 10:18 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-11 16:29 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-11 14:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 13:59 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-11 21:37 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 21:37 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-12 12:39 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-12 14:43 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-12 19:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-11 21:11 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 05:00 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 15:56 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 10:56 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:18 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-10 18:49 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-10 16:00 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-11 07:16 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 10:53 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-10 17:22 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 15:18 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-10 18:20 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 05:23 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-10 19:50 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 06:13 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-13 12:53 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-13 12:43 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-15 14:09 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-09 16:26 +0000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-09 18:07 +0100
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-09 14:47 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 10:06 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 11:57 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 05:15 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 06:11 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-09 23:49 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 05:06 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-13 06:07 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-13 08:30 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 20:30 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-16 22:39 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic mrr@sambook.reistad.name (Morten Reistad) - 2016-05-17 11:10 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-13 16:19 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 20:29 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 04:45 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-10 16:01 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 15:20 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-10 22:59 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-10 19:15 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 10:53 -0400
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 10:42 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-08 18:38 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-05-08 12:40 -0500
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 03:36 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 05:32 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:13 +1000
Re: AM radio Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-04 00:32 +0200
Re: AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 10:36 +1000
Re: Re:AM radio Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:00 +1000
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-02 13:07 +0000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-30 15:19 -0300
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 18:31 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-27 07:48 -0500
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 16:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-04-28 22:03 -0700
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-26 12:50 +0100
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-26 12:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-26 11:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-26 18:28 +0200
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:24 +0000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-27 16:53 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-29 16:33 -0500
Re: Qbasic Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-04-26 20:18 +0000
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-27 00:34 +0200
Re: Qbasic "Jack Brown" <7865jb@nospam.com> - 2016-04-27 14:23 +1000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 03:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 06:02 +1000
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-26 22:42 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-27 10:21 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 23:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 02:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 11:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 10:08 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 11:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 18:39 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 18:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 17:38 -0500
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-19 19:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 09:13 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 07:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-04-19 13:19 +0100
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-19 17:20 +0100
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-19 13:55 +0200
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-19 18:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-19 16:47 -0300
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-18 16:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 17:26 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 19:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-19 07:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-19 14:15 +0000
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-25 21:14 -0500
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-19 11:52 -0700
Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-04-19 16:04 -0400
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-19 17:07 -0300
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-19 16:20 -0500
Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-20 00:45 -0300
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-19 21:59 -0700
Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-04-20 06:52 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-20 10:34 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-19 21:56 -0700
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-20 01:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-20 10:36 +0000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-20 10:32 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-19 18:03 -0500
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 14:03 +1000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:47 -0700
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:53 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-17 11:03 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-17 07:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-17 14:03 +0000
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-17 14:16 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-17 12:09 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:37 -0500
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-17 20:09 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 18:48 -0400
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-18 12:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-18 13:31 -0500
Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:46 +1000
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:42 +1000
Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-04-18 03:27 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-17 07:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-17 20:06 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:48 +0100
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 09:49 -0400
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:52 -0700
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:05 -0400
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:51 +0100
Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-04-18 12:38 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-18 09:53 -0700
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-18 19:02 +0000
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-18 19:04 +0000
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-19 11:28 +0100
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-19 11:13 +0000
Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-04-16 06:33 -0700
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-16 12:15 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-16 07:24 -0400
Re: Wikipedia interest, was Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-16 13:10 -0700
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:01 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-04-17 11:57 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:57 +0100
Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 08:39 -0500
Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-04-18 12:54 +0100
Re: Qbasic sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-04-18 11:23 -0400
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 14:47 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-04-18 15:44 -0500
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-17 11:00 -0400
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-17 21:27 +0000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-18 06:35 -0400
Re: Qbasic Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 10:51 +0000
Epigenetics (was Re: Qbasic) Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-04-18 15:48 -0300
Re: Epigenetics (was Re: Qbasic) Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-04-18 21:35 +0000
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 12:06 +1000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-11 17:21 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 07:55 +1000
Re: Qbasic mausg@mail.com - 2016-04-12 11:42 +0000
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 17:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-13 13:17 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-13 17:29 -0400
Re: Qbasic "3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 07:37 +1000
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-04 17:12 -0700
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:41 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 12:15 +1000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-05 10:26 -0500
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:39 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:08 +1000
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-06 07:52 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 19:44 -0400
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-06 12:49 -0500
Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-04-05 12:42 -0700
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:42 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Thomas Johns" <TJzz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:14 +1000
Re: Qbasic Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-04-04 11:23 -0400
Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-04-04 15:57 +0000
Re: Qbasic JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-04-04 12:24 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:14 -0400
Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-04-04 14:25 -0500
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 15:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 17:58 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 21:26 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 19:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 22:02 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:40 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-04 22:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 20:51 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-05 09:32 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-05 16:00 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:28 -0400
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:26 -0400
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-11 21:25 -0500
Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-05 16:54 -0400
Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-04-05 22:56 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-06 09:34 +0200
Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:24 -0400
Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-04-06 12:59 +0200
Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-04-11 22:01 -0500
Page 32 of 50 — ← Prev page 1 … 30 31 [32] 33 34 … 50 Next page →
| From | Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-04 06:24 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <j7ydneSj9LLCGrTKnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #163133 |
On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >> It is worrisome. > > Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the house we > have three independent routes to the internet, this is not unusual. > It is the internet that is the single point of failure. Countries can restrict it to a single entry point. China is working on this.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-04 17:37 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dotn62Fkla1U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163181 |
"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:j7ydneSj9LLCGrTKnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@giganews.com... > On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >> On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >>> It is worrisome. >> >> Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the house we >> have three independent routes to the internet, this is not unusual. >> > > It is the internet that is the single point of failure. Like hell it is. It was designed from the start to be able to survive anything. > Countries can restrict it to a single entry point. Nope. > China is working on this. Like hell they are and even if they did manage that, there are plenty of other ways to communicate.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-04 11:07 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <rnqovc-n8h.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163184 |
In article <dotn62Fkla1U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: > > >"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >news:j7ydneSj9LLCGrTKnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@giganews.com... >> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >>>> It is worrisome. >>> >>> Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the house we >>> have three independent routes to the internet, this is not unusual. >>> >> >> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. > >Like hell it is. It was designed from the start to be able to survive >anything. > >> Countries can restrict it to a single entry point. > >Nope. In practice; yes. In telco speak there are references to the "open 38" and the "closed 50" among countries. There re 38 countries where telecom is open, unrestricted, and there are a number of ISPs. (more than 10 in each). These have no problems whatsoever regarding multi-ISP redundancy. They are US+CA+MX+EU25+NO+CH+IS+JP+KR+AU+NZ+IL+CL+AG. All other countries have stuff that limits the internet freedom, where you cannot set up an ISP with a minimum of fuzz. Like 2GV, "two guys and a vax" style. If you look at the AS numbers there are currently around 45k active ISPs in the world. US+CA+EU25 gets to the 80% mark. >> China is working on this. > >Like hell they are and even if they did manage that, >there are plenty of other ways to communicate. China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan are among the really bad countries on the Internet, because they have national firewalls. And block lists that have huge personell to update. -- mrr who have had the "what do you do when you are the biggest ISP in two countries that go to war" on the corporate agenda.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-05 05:26 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dov0njFt557U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163185 |
"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message news:rnqovc-n8h.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... > In article <dotn62Fkla1U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> >>"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >>news:j7ydneSj9LLCGrTKnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >>>>> It is worrisome. >>>> >>>> Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the house we >>>> have three independent routes to the internet, this is not unusual. >>>> >>> >>> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. >> >>Like hell it is. It was designed from the start to be able to survive >>anything. >> >>> Countries can restrict it to a single entry point. >> >>Nope. > > In practice; yes. Nope, even China hasn’t managed to do that. And I know that because a mate of mine worked there for years and never had any trouble doing an end run around what China tried to do to limit what anyone in China could do comms wise. > In telco speak there are references to the "open 38" and the "closed 50" > among countries. There re 38 countries where telecom is open, > unrestricted, > and there are a number of ISPs. (more than 10 in each). These have > no problems whatsoever regarding multi-ISP redundancy. > > They are US+CA+MX+EU25+NO+CH+IS+JP+KR+AU+NZ+IL+CL+AG. > > All other countries have stuff that limits the internet freedom, where > you cannot set up an ISP with a minimum of fuzz. Like 2GV, "two > guys and a vax" style. > > If you look at the AS numbers there are currently around 45k active > ISPs in the world. US+CA+EU25 gets to the 80% mark. That is all quite different to a single point of entry. >>> China is working on this. >> >>Like hell they are and even if they did manage that, >>there are plenty of other ways to communicate. > > China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan are among the really bad countries on the > Internet, because they have national firewalls. And block lists that > have huge personell to update. But its always been completely trivial to do an end run around that. Same with Iran. > who have had the "what do you do when you are the biggest ISP in two > countries that go to war" on the corporate agenda. No one has ever come up with a fix for that. Essentially because the net has always been designed to survive anything, even a full nuclear holocaust.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-05 00:58 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <ocbqvc-3oi.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163227 |
In article <dov0njFt557U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: > > >"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >news:rnqovc-n8h.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >> In article <dotn62Fkla1U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>>"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >>>news:j7ydneSj9LLCGrTKnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >>>>>> It is worrisome. >>>>> >>>>> Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the house we >>>>> have three independent routes to the internet, this is not unusual. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. >>> >>>Like hell it is. It was designed from the start to be able to survive >>>anything. >>> >>>> Countries can restrict it to a single entry point. >>> >>>Nope. >> >> In practice; yes. > >Nope, even China hasn’t managed to do that. > >And I know that because a mate of mine worked there for years >and never had any trouble doing an end run around what China >tried to do to limit what anyone in China could do comms wise. This is becoming increasingly difficult to do. Yes, with a great deal of sophistication you can always bypass such a firewall. I would imagine steganography will be needed soon. >> In telco speak there are references to the "open 38" and the "closed 50" >> among countries. There re 38 countries where telecom is open, >> unrestricted, >> and there are a number of ISPs. (more than 10 in each). These have >> no problems whatsoever regarding multi-ISP redundancy. >> >> They are US+CA+MX+EU25+NO+CH+IS+JP+KR+AU+NZ+IL+CL+AG. >> >> All other countries have stuff that limits the internet freedom, where >> you cannot set up an ISP with a minimum of fuzz. Like 2GV, "two >> guys and a vax" style. >> >> If you look at the AS numbers there are currently around 45k active >> ISPs in the world. US+CA+EU25 gets to the 80% mark. > >That is all quite different to a single point of entry. It is a single point in terms of policy. This is not about technology. I am sure China has build n levels of redundancy around their firewalls and duplicated stuff quite well. (Not like Saudi Arabia, which actually ran a single firewall cluster for the whole country for a number of years). But the policy is one. Single point. If your url is blocked, byebye. Finding a different site could be a workaround. The cogniscenti could have external cooperating servers on a wide fanout of addresses, and could use something like steganography with some benign photos with the real signal in the lower bits. You could probably make gif and pngs with the signal in the lower 2 of 8 bits without it becoming very appearant. Then run a VPN over that. 20% payload. But this couldn't work in scale, becayse THEY would find out. >>>> China is working on this. >>> >>>Like hell they are and even if they did manage that, >>>there are plenty of other ways to communicate. >> >> China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan are among the really bad countries on the >> Internet, because they have national firewalls. And block lists that >> have huge personell to update. > >But its always been completely trivial to do an end run around that. > >Same with Iran. > >> who have had the "what do you do when you are the biggest ISP in two >> countries that go to war" on the corporate agenda. > >No one has ever come up with a fix for that. Essentially >because the net has always been designed to survive >anything, even a full nuclear holocaust. We fixed that. It was when Serbia and Bosnia fell out. We had the main uplink to both countries. This hit some very high office, and Serbia was offloaded to some friendly country. We didn't lose more than a few hundred packets transferring them, bgp is really nice. If you were surfing from there you wouldn't have noticed more than a very brief hang. (~1 second) -- mrr
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-05 09:41 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dovflcF1japU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163247 |
"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message news:ocbqvc-3oi.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... > In article <dov0njFt557U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> >>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >>news:rnqovc-n8h.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >>> In article <dotn62Fkla1U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >>>>news:j7ydneSj9LLCGrTKnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >>>>>>> It is worrisome. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the house we >>>>>> have three independent routes to the internet, this is not unusual. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. >>>> >>>>Like hell it is. It was designed from the start to be able to survive >>>>anything. >>>> >>>>> Countries can restrict it to a single entry point. >>>> >>>>Nope. >>> >>> In practice; yes. >> >>Nope, even China hasn’t managed to do that. >> >>And I know that because a mate of mine worked there for years >>and never had any trouble doing an end run around what China >>tried to do to limit what anyone in China could do comms wise. > > This is becoming increasingly difficult to do. No its not, he still does it online from here, teaching english. > Yes, with a great deal of sophistication > you can always bypass such a firewall. You don’t need any sophistication at all, just a vpn. > I would imagine steganography will be needed soon. Not a chance, all you need is a vpn. He does it every day quite literally. >>> In telco speak there are references to the "open 38" and the "closed 50" >>> among countries. There re 38 countries where telecom is open, >>> unrestricted, >>> and there are a number of ISPs. (more than 10 in each). These have >>> no problems whatsoever regarding multi-ISP redundancy. >>> >>> They are US+CA+MX+EU25+NO+CH+IS+JP+KR+AU+NZ+IL+CL+AG. >>> >>> All other countries have stuff that limits the internet freedom, where >>> you cannot set up an ISP with a minimum of fuzz. Like 2GV, "two >>> guys and a vax" style. >>> >>> If you look at the AS numbers there are currently around 45k active >>> ISPs in the world. US+CA+EU25 gets to the 80% mark. >> >>That is all quite different to a single point of entry. > > It is a single point in terms of policy. No its not. > This is not about technology. I am sure China has build n levels of > redundancy around their firewalls and duplicated stuff quite well. And completely trivial to do an end run around it. > (Not like Saudi Arabia, which actually ran a single firewall cluster > for the whole country for a number of years). > > But the policy is one. Single point. If your url is blocked, byebye. Not when you use a vpn. > Finding a different site could be a workaround. Don’t need to do that, just use a vpn. > The cogniscenti could have external cooperating servers on a wide > fanout of addresses, and could use something like steganography with > some benign photos with the real signal in the lower bits. You could > probably make gif and pngs with the signal in the lower 2 of 8 bits > without it becoming very appearant. > > Then run a VPN over that. 20% payload. > > But this couldn't work in scale, becayse THEY would find out. Don’t need to do anything like that. >>>>> China is working on this. >>>> >>>>Like hell they are and even if they did manage that, >>>>there are plenty of other ways to communicate. >>> >>> China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan are among the really bad countries on the >>> Internet, because they have national firewalls. And block lists that >>> have huge personell to update. >> >>But its always been completely trivial to do an end run around that. >> >>Same with Iran. >> >>> who have had the "what do you do when you are the biggest ISP in two >>> countries that go to war" on the corporate agenda. >> >>No one has ever come up with a fix for that. Essentially >>because the net has always been designed to survive >>anything, even a full nuclear holocaust. > > We fixed that. It was when Serbia and Bosnia fell out. We had > the main uplink to both countries. This hit some very high office, > and Serbia was offloaded to some friendly country. We didn't > lose more than a few hundred packets transferring them, bgp > is really nice. If you were surfing from there you wouldn't > have noticed more than a very brief hang. (~1 second) That's what I meant, there is no single point of failure.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-05 13:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <clorvc-5al.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163248 |
In article <dovflcF1japU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: > > >"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >news:ocbqvc-3oi.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >> In article <dov0njFt557U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >>>news:rnqovc-n8h.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >>>> In article <dotn62Fkla1U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >>>>>news:j7ydneSj9LLCGrTKnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >>>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >>>>>>>> It is worrisome. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the house we >>>>>>> have three independent routes to the internet, this is not unusual. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. >>>>> >>>>>Like hell it is. It was designed from the start to be able to survive >>>>>anything. >>>>> >>>>>> Countries can restrict it to a single entry point. >>>>> >>>>>Nope. >>>> >>>> In practice; yes. >>> >>>Nope, even China hasn’t managed to do that. >>> >>>And I know that because a mate of mine worked there for years >>>and never had any trouble doing an end run around what China >>>tried to do to limit what anyone in China could do comms wise. >> >> This is becoming increasingly difficult to do. > >No its not, he still does it online from here, teaching english. He probably has been OKed for vpn use by the internet keepers. There are tens of thousands of them, inspecting the nooks and crannies of the chinese international web access. I know, I have hit this bureocracy more times than I like. Terminating telephony on IP into China was OK, then they clamped down, but less known protocols like iax on non-default ports where the session started from inside worked for many years. Now you need a vpn, but those addresses where iax/sip etc were detected are blocked for any well known vpn. I wrote a variant that is masqerading as html, just superficially; with a payload of around 90%. >> Yes, with a great deal of sophistication >> you can always bypass such a firewall. > >You don’t need any sophistication at all, just a vpn. whatever. >> I would imagine steganography will be needed soon. > >Not a chance, all you need is a vpn. >He does it every day quite literally. > >>>> In telco speak there are references to the "open 38" and the "closed 50" >>>> among countries. There re 38 countries where telecom is open, >>>> unrestricted, >>>> and there are a number of ISPs. (more than 10 in each). These have >>>> no problems whatsoever regarding multi-ISP redundancy. >>>> >>>> They are US+CA+MX+EU25+NO+CH+IS+JP+KR+AU+NZ+IL+CL+AG. >>>> >>>> All other countries have stuff that limits the internet freedom, where >>>> you cannot set up an ISP with a minimum of fuzz. Like 2GV, "two >>>> guys and a vax" style. >>>> >>>> If you look at the AS numbers there are currently around 45k active >>>> ISPs in the world. US+CA+EU25 gets to the 80% mark. >>> >>>That is all quite different to a single point of entry. >> >> It is a single point in terms of policy. > >No its not. > >> This is not about technology. I am sure China has build n levels of >> redundancy around their firewalls and duplicated stuff quite well. > >And completely trivial to do an end run around it. The internet keepers in China are very careful not to impinge on business. Therefore vpns that seem to cover just internal communication between a few entities are let live. Having such a vpn does not mean you outsmarted them. In 2000, maybe. But not now. >> (Not like Saudi Arabia, which actually ran a single firewall cluster >> for the whole country for a number of years). >> >> But the policy is one. Single point. If your url is blocked, byebye. > >Not when you use a vpn. > >> Finding a different site could be a workaround. > >Don’t need to do that, just use a vpn. > >> The cogniscenti could have external cooperating servers on a wide >> fanout of addresses, and could use something like steganography with >> some benign photos with the real signal in the lower bits. You could >> probably make gif and pngs with the signal in the lower 2 of 8 bits >> without it becoming very appearant. >> >> Then run a VPN over that. 20% payload. >> >> But this couldn't work in scale, becayse THEY would find out. > >Don’t need to do anything like that. > >>>>>> China is working on this. >>>>> >>>>>Like hell they are and even if they did manage that, >>>>>there are plenty of other ways to communicate. >>>> >>>> China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan are among the really bad countries on the >>>> Internet, because they have national firewalls. And block lists that >>>> have huge personell to update. >>> >>>But its always been completely trivial to do an end run around that. >>> >>>Same with Iran. >>> >>>> who have had the "what do you do when you are the biggest ISP in two >>>> countries that go to war" on the corporate agenda. >>> >>>No one has ever come up with a fix for that. Essentially >>>because the net has always been designed to survive >>>anything, even a full nuclear holocaust. >> >> We fixed that. It was when Serbia and Bosnia fell out. We had >> the main uplink to both countries. This hit some very high office, >> and Serbia was offloaded to some friendly country. We didn't >> lose more than a few hundred packets transferring them, bgp >> is really nice. If you were surfing from there you wouldn't >> have noticed more than a very brief hang. (~1 second) > >That's what I meant, there is no single point of failure. Actually, the links to both Bosnia and Serbia was on the same satellite, with only a shoestring of terrestrial capacity as a reserve. One hit on the right dish, and the country could not open any web pages anymore. This has been fixed a long time ago. But there ARE still a lot of islands where the internet connection is literally that. ONE dish. No sea cables as backup. Tristan da Cunha and lots of others. Kiribati has 50+ of them. -- mrr
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-06 05:20 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dp1ko1FetdkU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163259 |
"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message news:clorvc-5al.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... > In article <dovflcF1japU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> >>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >>news:ocbqvc-3oi.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >>> In article <dov0njFt557U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >>>>news:rnqovc-n8h.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >>>>> In article <dotn62Fkla1U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >>>>>>news:j7ydneSj9LLCGrTKnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >>>>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >>>>>>>>> It is worrisome. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the house we >>>>>>>> have three independent routes to the internet, this is not unusual. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. >>>>>> >>>>>>Like hell it is. It was designed from the start to be able to survive >>>>>>anything. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Countries can restrict it to a single entry point. >>>>>> >>>>>>Nope. >>>>> >>>>> In practice; yes. >>>> >>>>Nope, even China hasn’t managed to do that. >>>> >>>>And I know that because a mate of mine worked there for years >>>>and never had any trouble doing an end run around what China >>>>tried to do to limit what anyone in China could do comms wise. >>> >>> This is becoming increasingly difficult to do. >> >>No its not, he still does it online from here, teaching english. > He probably has been OKed for vpn use by the internet keepers. No he has not. And almost everyone in China uses vpns. > There are tens of thousands of them, inspecting the nooks > and crannies of the chinese international web access. And in practice it’s impossible to do it reliably. > I know, I have hit this bureocracy more times than I like. Sure, one downside is that comms with him was quite a bit less reliable than with others, but that doesn’t stop him using it now to continue to teach online from outside the country. > Terminating telephony on IP into China was OK, then they > clamped down, but less known protocols like iax on non-default > ports where the session started from inside worked for many > years. Now you need a vpn, but those addresses where iax/sip > etc were detected are blocked for any well known vpn. So you don’t use a well known vpn. Hardly rocket science. > I wrote a variant that is masqerading as html, > just superficially; with a payload of around 90%. So it isnt hard to do an end run around their stupidity. >>> Yes, with a great deal of sophistication >>> you can always bypass such a firewall. >> >>You don’t need any sophistication at all, just a vpn. > > whatever. > >>> I would imagine steganography will be needed soon. >> >>Not a chance, all you need is a vpn. >>He does it every day quite literally. >> >>>>> In telco speak there are references to the "open 38" and the "closed >>>>> 50" >>>>> among countries. There re 38 countries where telecom is open, >>>>> unrestricted, >>>>> and there are a number of ISPs. (more than 10 in each). These have >>>>> no problems whatsoever regarding multi-ISP redundancy. >>>>> >>>>> They are US+CA+MX+EU25+NO+CH+IS+JP+KR+AU+NZ+IL+CL+AG. >>>>> >>>>> All other countries have stuff that limits the internet freedom, where >>>>> you cannot set up an ISP with a minimum of fuzz. Like 2GV, "two >>>>> guys and a vax" style. >>>>> >>>>> If you look at the AS numbers there are currently around 45k active >>>>> ISPs in the world. US+CA+EU25 gets to the 80% mark. >>>> >>>>That is all quite different to a single point of entry. >>> >>> It is a single point in terms of policy. >> >>No its not. >> >>> This is not about technology. I am sure China has build n levels of >>> redundancy around their firewalls and duplicated stuff quite well. >> >>And completely trivial to do an end run around it. > > The internet keepers in China are very careful not to impinge on business. He's never had any trouble just ringing me except for it being rather less reliable than it is now that he is back in this country. > Therefore vpns that seem to cover just internal communication > between a few entities are let live. Having such a vpn does not > mean you outsmarted them. In 2000, maybe. But not now. No one said anything about outsmarting them, just that you can do what you want to do regardless of them without any real tech smarts at all. >>> (Not like Saudi Arabia, which actually ran a single firewall cluster >>> for the whole country for a number of years). >>> >>> But the policy is one. Single point. If your url is blocked, byebye. >> >>Not when you use a vpn. >> >>> Finding a different site could be a workaround. >> >>Don’t need to do that, just use a vpn. >> >>> The cogniscenti could have external cooperating servers on a wide >>> fanout of addresses, and could use something like steganography with >>> some benign photos with the real signal in the lower bits. You could >>> probably make gif and pngs with the signal in the lower 2 of 8 bits >>> without it becoming very appearant. >>> >>> Then run a VPN over that. 20% payload. >>> >>> But this couldn't work in scale, becayse THEY would find out. >> >>Don’t need to do anything like that. >> >>>>>>> China is working on this. >>>>>> >>>>>>Like hell they are and even if they did manage that, >>>>>>there are plenty of other ways to communicate. >>>>> >>>>> China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan are among the really bad countries on >>>>> the >>>>> Internet, because they have national firewalls. And block lists that >>>>> have huge personell to update. >>>> >>>>But its always been completely trivial to do an end run around that. >>>> >>>>Same with Iran. >>>> >>>>> who have had the "what do you do when you are the biggest ISP in two >>>>> countries that go to war" on the corporate agenda. >>>> >>>>No one has ever come up with a fix for that. Essentially >>>>because the net has always been designed to survive >>>>anything, even a full nuclear holocaust. >>> >>> We fixed that. It was when Serbia and Bosnia fell out. We had >>> the main uplink to both countries. This hit some very high office, >>> and Serbia was offloaded to some friendly country. We didn't >>> lose more than a few hundred packets transferring them, bgp >>> is really nice. If you were surfing from there you wouldn't >>> have noticed more than a very brief hang. (~1 second) >> >>That's what I meant, there is no single point of failure. > > Actually, the links to both Bosnia and Serbia was on the same > satellite, with only a shoestring of terrestrial capacity as a > reserve. One hit on the right dish, and the country could not > open any web pages anymore. This has been fixed a long time ago. So there is no single point of failure and there never was either. > But there ARE still a lot of islands where the internet connection > is literally that. ONE dish. No sea cables as backup. Sure, but that wasn’t what Barb was talking about. > Tristan da Cunha and lots of others. Kiribati has 50+ of them. And they still don’t have JUST an internet connection.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-06 14:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <7vfuvc-imo.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163279 |
In article <dp1ko1FetdkU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: > > >"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >news:clorvc-5al.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >> In article <dovflcF1japU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >>>news:ocbqvc-3oi.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >>>> In article <dov0njFt557U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >>>>>news:rnqovc-n8h.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >>>>>> In article <dotn62Fkla1U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>news:j7ydneSj9LLCGrTKnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >>>>>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >>>>>>>>>> It is worrisome. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the house we >>>>>>>>> have three independent routes to the internet, this is not unusual. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Like hell it is. It was designed from the start to be able to survive >>>>>>>anything. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Countries can restrict it to a single entry point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Nope. >>>>>> >>>>>> In practice; yes. >>>>> >>>>>Nope, even China hasn’t managed to do that. >>>>> >>>>>And I know that because a mate of mine worked there for years >>>>>and never had any trouble doing an end run around what China >>>>>tried to do to limit what anyone in China could do comms wise. >>>> >>>> This is becoming increasingly difficult to do. >>> >>>No its not, he still does it online from here, teaching english. > >> He probably has been OKed for vpn use by the internet keepers. > >No he has not. And almost everyone in China uses vpns. You will be surprised at the depth of analysis anyone doing communication in/out of China on a regular bases is exposed to. Yes, you can fly below their radar, but they catch up faster than we like. >> There are tens of thousands of them, inspecting the nooks >> and crannies of the chinese international web access. > >And in practice it’s impossible to do it reliably. Yes, it is a cat/mouse game. With you as the mouse. >> I know, I have hit this bureocracy more times than I like. > >Sure, one downside is that comms with him was quite a bit >less reliable than with others, but that doesn’t stop him using >it now to continue to teach online from outside the country. This is a guy that is teaching English (probably his first langauge) to Chinese, a VERY important skill set for their economy. He would have quite some leeway for what would be deemed as questionable behaviour for all the other >1B adult or adolescent residents of China. He would not be easily classified as a dissident. >> Terminating telephony on IP into China was OK, then they >> clamped down, but less known protocols like iax on non-default >> ports where the session started from inside worked for many >> years. Now you need a vpn, but those addresses where iax/sip >> etc were detected are blocked for any well known vpn. > >So you don’t use a well known vpn. Hardly rocket science. We tried around 10 VPNs that were "shrink wrapped". They were all blocked; either right away or within a few days. The one I wrote that run TLS inside HTML wrappers seem to survive, for now. >> I wrote a variant that is masqerading as html, >> just superficially; with a payload of around 90%. > >So it isnt hard to do an end run around their stupidity. Well, it is getting harder. You do need some tech savvy to get around it; how much depends on how deep on their shit list you are. >>>> Yes, with a great deal of sophistication >>>> you can always bypass such a firewall. >>> >>>You don’t need any sophistication at all, just a vpn. >> >> whatever. >> >>>> I would imagine steganography will be needed soon. >>> >>>Not a chance, all you need is a vpn. >>>He does it every day quite literally. >>> >>>>>> In telco speak there are references to the "open 38" and the "closed >>>>>> 50" >>>>>> among countries. There re 38 countries where telecom is open, >>>>>> unrestricted, >>>>>> and there are a number of ISPs. (more than 10 in each). These have >>>>>> no problems whatsoever regarding multi-ISP redundancy. >>>>>> >>>>>> They are US+CA+MX+EU25+NO+CH+IS+JP+KR+AU+NZ+IL+CL+AG. >>>>>> >>>>>> All other countries have stuff that limits the internet freedom, where >>>>>> you cannot set up an ISP with a minimum of fuzz. Like 2GV, "two >>>>>> guys and a vax" style. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you look at the AS numbers there are currently around 45k active >>>>>> ISPs in the world. US+CA+EU25 gets to the 80% mark. >>>>> >>>>>That is all quite different to a single point of entry. >>>> >>>> It is a single point in terms of policy. >>> >>>No its not. >>> >>>> This is not about technology. I am sure China has build n levels of >>>> redundancy around their firewalls and duplicated stuff quite well. >>> >>>And completely trivial to do an end run around it. >> >> The internet keepers in China are very careful not to impinge on business. > >He's never had any trouble just ringing me except for it being >rather less reliable than it is now that he is back in this country. Phoning China via VOIP was readily available until sometime in 2009, and the connections were reliable and had low latency and low packet drops. Then someone clamped down. >> Therefore vpns that seem to cover just internal communication >> between a few entities are let live. Having such a vpn does not >> mean you outsmarted them. In 2000, maybe. But not now. > >No one said anything about outsmarting them, just >that you can do what you want to do regardless >of them without any real tech smarts at all. > >>>> (Not like Saudi Arabia, which actually ran a single firewall cluster >>>> for the whole country for a number of years). >>>> >>>> But the policy is one. Single point. If your url is blocked, byebye. >>> >>>Not when you use a vpn. >>> >>>> Finding a different site could be a workaround. >>> >>>Don’t need to do that, just use a vpn. Then you have all the countries where there literally is a single firewall (OK, a cluster, but tight enough to have a single NAT pool to the outside). Like Saudi Arabia, Bhutan, Ethiopia, probably Burma and Laos, Nepal and Sri Lanka are only saved by their proximity to relativelyt free India; but India has so many pure connectivity problems of it's own. The "Darien Gap" of the Internet is centered around India. With Communist China to the north, the Arab/Islamic world to the west and the south east asian dictators to the East they are very boxed in connectivity wise. They need 3000km of sea cables to get to anywhere where traffic isn't filtered on a daily, routine basis. Indonesia is an "India light", mostly because of their very spread out geography. If you watch the outage stats on potaroo.net you will see the ISPs that are most flakey. They have a definate center around India/Indonesia/Philippines/ central Africa. This is where entire ISPs are offline for some time. >>>> The cogniscenti could have external cooperating servers on a wide >>>> fanout of addresses, and could use something like steganography with >>>> some benign photos with the real signal in the lower bits. You could >>>> probably make gif and pngs with the signal in the lower 2 of 8 bits >>>> without it becoming very appearant. >>>> >>>> Then run a VPN over that. 20% payload. >>>> >>>> But this couldn't work in scale, becayse THEY would find out. >>> >>>Don’t need to do anything like that. Not now. But with the current Chinese clampdown I wouldn't be surprised to see this in around 5 years time. >>>>>>>> China is working on this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Like hell they are and even if they did manage that, >>>>>>>there are plenty of other ways to communicate. >>>>>> >>>>>> China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan are among the really bad countries on >>>>>> the >>>>>> Internet, because they have national firewalls. And block lists that >>>>>> have huge personell to update. >>>>> >>>>>But its always been completely trivial to do an end run around that. >>>>> >>>>>Same with Iran. Another country with single firewall clusters, one per ISP; currently 3 AGFAICT. Each tight enough to have single NAT pools to the outside world. Pakistan is trying, but has the general, wonderful "Indian Chaos" to contend with. The people would pull up the ladder when the taxman arrives, if they could. >>>>>> who have had the "what do you do when you are the biggest ISP in two >>>>>> countries that go to war" on the corporate agenda. >>>>> >>>>>No one has ever come up with a fix for that. Essentially >>>>>because the net has always been designed to survive >>>>>anything, even a full nuclear holocaust. It has been designed to route around faults, but this does require a well funded, well designed network at the outset. I am emphasising that more than half the world's population does not have access to such an Internet. >>>> We fixed that. It was when Serbia and Bosnia fell out. We had >>>> the main uplink to both countries. This hit some very high office, >>>> and Serbia was offloaded to some friendly country. We didn't >>>> lose more than a few hundred packets transferring them, bgp >>>> is really nice. If you were surfing from there you wouldn't >>>> have noticed more than a very brief hang. (~1 second) >>> >>>That's what I meant, there is no single point of failure. >> >> Actually, the links to both Bosnia and Serbia was on the same >> satellite, with only a shoestring of terrestrial capacity as a >> reserve. One hit on the right dish, and the country could not >> open any web pages anymore. This has been fixed a long time ago. > >So there is no single point of failure and there never was either. Until 1999 Bosnia has a single satellite link for all their Internet traffic. I had the backup downlink on the other side in our PPOEs back yard. It could deliver a total of 180 megabits; sum of up and down connectivity. The only other connectivity were based on satellite phones at 4800 bps, ISDN/GSM dial links to other countries or ~10 64K lines out of the country. >> But there ARE still a lot of islands where the internet connection >> is literally that. ONE dish. No sea cables as backup. > >Sure, but that wasn’t what Barb was talking about. > >> Tristan da Cunha and lots of others. Kiribati has 50+ of them. > >And they still don’t have JUST an internet connection. Yes. In Kiribati the islands are offline if the satellite connection fails. They use VOIP to phone them. The backup is ham radio; workable at night. TV is downlink only. I have friends that have been there and have had to do the readjust to a different satellite when one failed. Instructions via ham radio with VERY high noise levels. KPN, Cable and Wireless and Verizon has done marvellous jobs with providing these outposts with as decent connectivity as is possible over satellite. -- mrr
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 08:49 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dp4lbmF36brU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163317 |
"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message news:7vfuvc-imo.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... > In article <dp1ko1FetdkU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> >>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >>news:clorvc-5al.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >>> In article <dovflcF1japU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >>>>news:ocbqvc-3oi.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >>>>> In article <dov0njFt557U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >>>>>>news:rnqovc-n8h.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >>>>>>> In article <dotn62Fkla1U1@mid.individual.net>, Simo >>>>>>> <dhy287@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>news:j7ydneSj9LLCGrTKnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >>>>>>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >>>>>>>>>>> It is worrisome. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the house >>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>> have three independent routes to the internet, this is not >>>>>>>>>> unusual. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Like hell it is. It was designed from the start to be able to >>>>>>>>survive >>>>>>>>anything. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Countries can restrict it to a single entry point. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Nope. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In practice; yes. >>>>>> >>>>>>Nope, even China hasn’t managed to do that. >>>>>> >>>>>>And I know that because a mate of mine worked there for years >>>>>>and never had any trouble doing an end run around what China >>>>>>tried to do to limit what anyone in China could do comms wise. >>>>> >>>>> This is becoming increasingly difficult to do. >>>> >>>>No its not, he still does it online from here, teaching english. >> >>> He probably has been OKed for vpn use by the internet keepers. >> >>No he has not. And almost everyone in China uses vpns. > > You will be surprised at the depth of analysis anyone doing > communication in/out of China on a regular bases is exposed to. No I won't, I've been doing it for years now. > Yes, you can fly below their radar, > but they catch up faster than we like. Not with the personal communications we are discussing they don’t. >>> There are tens of thousands of them, inspecting the nooks >>> and crannies of the chinese international web access. >> >>And in practice it’s impossible to do it reliably. > > Yes, it is a cat/mouse game. With you as the mouse. But with no penalty for me except some comms glitches at times. >>> I know, I have hit this bureocracy more times than I like. >> >>Sure, one downside is that comms with him was quite a bit >>less reliable than with others, but that doesn’t stop him using >>it now to continue to teach online from outside the country. > > This is a guy that is teaching English (probably his first langauge) > to Chinese, a VERY important skill set for their economy. He would > have quite some leeway for what would be deemed as questionable > behaviour for all the other >1B adult or adolescent residents of China. But he knows plenty of those, including the one he married and knows that they don’t get any different result to what he gets. > He would not be easily classified as a dissident. Sure. >>> Terminating telephony on IP into China was OK, then they >>> clamped down, but less known protocols like iax on non-default >>> ports where the session started from inside worked for many >>> years. Now you need a vpn, but those addresses where iax/sip >>> etc were detected are blocked for any well known vpn. >> >>So you don’t use a well known vpn. Hardly rocket science. > > We tried around 10 VPNs that were "shrink wrapped". They > were all blocked; either right away or within a few days. Then they must have decided that you were up to something, because he doesn’t get anything like that result and neither do those he knows either. > The one I wrote that run TLS inside HTML > wrappers seem to survive, for now. >>> I wrote a variant that is masqerading as html, >>> just superficially; with a payload of around 90%. >> >>So it isnt hard to do an end run around their stupidity. > > Well, it is getting harder. You do need some tech savvy to get > around it; how much depends on how deep on their shit list you are. Yes, you clearly are on their shit list. None of those he knows are. >>>>> Yes, with a great deal of sophistication >>>>> you can always bypass such a firewall. >>>> >>>>You don’t need any sophistication at all, just a vpn. >>> >>> whatever. >>> >>>>> I would imagine steganography will be needed soon. >>>> >>>>Not a chance, all you need is a vpn. >>>>He does it every day quite literally. >>>> >>>>>>> In telco speak there are references to the "open 38" and the "closed >>>>>>> 50" >>>>>>> among countries. There re 38 countries where telecom is open, >>>>>>> unrestricted, >>>>>>> and there are a number of ISPs. (more than 10 in each). These have >>>>>>> no problems whatsoever regarding multi-ISP redundancy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They are US+CA+MX+EU25+NO+CH+IS+JP+KR+AU+NZ+IL+CL+AG. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All other countries have stuff that limits the internet freedom, >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> you cannot set up an ISP with a minimum of fuzz. Like 2GV, "two >>>>>>> guys and a vax" style. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you look at the AS numbers there are currently around 45k active >>>>>>> ISPs in the world. US+CA+EU25 gets to the 80% mark. >>>>>> >>>>>>That is all quite different to a single point of entry. >>>>> >>>>> It is a single point in terms of policy. >>>> >>>>No its not. >>>> >>>>> This is not about technology. I am sure China has build n levels of >>>>> redundancy around their firewalls and duplicated stuff quite well. >>>> >>>>And completely trivial to do an end run around it. >>> >>> The internet keepers in China are very careful not to impinge on >>> business. >> >>He's never had any trouble just ringing me except for it being >>rather less reliable than it is now that he is back in this country. > > Phoning China via VOIP I was talking about the reverse, him calling me. That's the way we normally operated, essentially because he could call me for free, no marginal charge. I couldn’t call China for free or even for a low fixed charge per call of about 10c for the total cost of the call once Pennytel went bust. He called me using Skype, to my landline. I could always call him on his mobile number to have him call me back fine. > was readily available until sometime in 2009, and > the connections were reliable and had low latency > and low packet drops. Then someone clamped down. Not with skype out from china they didn’t. It was never that reliable early, in fact fucking unreliable, but it got a lot better over time and by the time he went back the second time, it wasn’t too bad at all. >>> Therefore vpns that seem to cover just internal communication >>> between a few entities are let live. Having such a vpn does not >>> mean you outsmarted them. In 2000, maybe. But not now. >> >>No one said anything about outsmarting them, just >>that you can do what you want to do regardless >>of them without any real tech smarts at all. >> >>>>> (Not like Saudi Arabia, which actually ran a single firewall cluster >>>>> for the whole country for a number of years). >>>>> >>>>> But the policy is one. Single point. If your url is blocked, byebye. >>>> >>>>Not when you use a vpn. >>>> >>>>> Finding a different site could be a workaround. >>>> >>>>Don’t need to do that, just use a vpn. > > Then you have all the countries where there literally is a single firewall > (OK, a cluster, but tight enough to have a single NAT pool to the > outside). > Like Saudi Arabia, Bhutan, Ethiopia, probably Burma and Laos, Nepal and > Sri > Lanka are only saved by their proximity to relativelyt free India; but > India > has so many pure connectivity problems of it's own. The "Darien Gap" of > the > Internet is centered around India. With Communist China to the north, the > Arab/Islamic world to the west and the south east asian dictators to the > East > they are very boxed in connectivity wise. They need 3000km of sea cables > to > get to anywhere where traffic isn't filtered on a daily, routine basis. Only with the net, satellite works fine. So never any single point of failure. > Indonesia is an "India light", mostly because of their very spread out > geography. > If you watch the outage stats on potaroo.net you will see the ISPs that > are most flakey. They have a definate center around > India/Indonesia/Philippines/ > central Africa. This is where entire ISPs are offline for some time. Sure, but again, it isnt the only way to communicate there. >>>>> The cogniscenti could have external cooperating servers on a wide >>>>> fanout of addresses, and could use something like steganography with >>>>> some benign photos with the real signal in the lower bits. You could >>>>> probably make gif and pngs with the signal in the lower 2 of 8 bits >>>>> without it becoming very appearant. >>>>> >>>>> Then run a VPN over that. 20% payload. >>>>> >>>>> But this couldn't work in scale, becayse THEY would find out. >>>> >>>>Don’t need to do anything like that. > Not now. But with the current Chinese clampdown I > wouldn't be surprised to see this in around 5 years time. I would, bet it doesn’t happen. >>>>>>>>> China is working on this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Like hell they are and even if they did manage that, >>>>>>>>there are plenty of other ways to communicate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan are among the really bad countries on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Internet, because they have national firewalls. And block lists that >>>>>>> have huge personell to update. >>>>>> >>>>>>But its always been completely trivial to do an end run around that. >>>>>> >>>>>>Same with Iran. > > Another country with single firewall clusters, one per ISP; currently > 3 AGFAICT. Each tight enough to have single NAT pools to the outside > world. Sure, but there isnt just the net. > Pakistan is trying, but has the general, wonderful "Indian Chaos" to > contend with. The people would pull up the ladder when the taxman arrives, > if they could. >>>>>>> who have had the "what do you do when you are the biggest ISP in two >>>>>>> countries that go to war" on the corporate agenda. >>>>>> >>>>>>No one has ever come up with a fix for that. Essentially >>>>>>because the net has always been designed to survive >>>>>>anything, even a full nuclear holocaust. > > It has been designed to route around faults, but this does require a > well funded, well designed network at the outset. But when that isnt there, its certainly much less reliable, but there is never just a single point of failure as Barb was hyperventilating about. > I am emphasising that more than half the world's > population does not have access to such an Internet. Sure, but there is bugger all that doesn’t have any access to mobile/cellphone services now. So again, no single point of failure. >>>>> We fixed that. It was when Serbia and Bosnia fell out. We had >>>>> the main uplink to both countries. This hit some very high office, >>>>> and Serbia was offloaded to some friendly country. We didn't >>>>> lose more than a few hundred packets transferring them, bgp >>>>> is really nice. If you were surfing from there you wouldn't >>>>> have noticed more than a very brief hang. (~1 second) >>>> >>>>That's what I meant, there is no single point of failure. >>> >>> Actually, the links to both Bosnia and Serbia was on the same >>> satellite, with only a shoestring of terrestrial capacity as a >>> reserve. One hit on the right dish, and the country could not >>> open any web pages anymore. This has been fixed a long time ago. >> >>So there is no single point of failure and there never was either. > > Until 1999 Bosnia has a single satellite link for all their Internet > traffic. Sure, but there were landline and mobile services which meant that there is no single point of failure for all comms that needs short wave radio because of that. > I had the backup downlink on the other side in our PPOEs back yard. > It could deliver a total of 180 megabits; sum of up and down connectivity. > The only other connectivity were based on satellite phones at 4800 bps, > ISDN/GSM dial links to other countries or ~10 64K lines out of the > country. Sure, but since there were those, there was never any single point of failure. >>> But there ARE still a lot of islands where the internet connection >>> is literally that. ONE dish. No sea cables as backup. >> >>Sure, but that wasn’t what Barb was talking about. >> >>> Tristan da Cunha and lots of others. Kiribati has 50+ of them. >> >>And they still don’t have JUST an internet connection. > > Yes. In Kiribati the islands are offline if the satellite connection > fails. No they aren't. you can still use satellite phones. > They use VOIP to phone them. That isnt the only comms they have. > The backup is ham radio; workable at night. The real backup is satellite phones. And there isnt just one satellite involved either. > TV is downlink only. I have friends that have been there and have > had to do the readjust to a different satellite when one failed. Sure, but there still isnt a single point of failure even there. > Instructions via ham radio with VERY high noise levels. Irrelevant with digital comms. > KPN, Cable and Wireless and Verizon has done marvellous jobs with > providing these outposts with as decent connectivity as is possible > over satellite. And there are always satellite phones so there still isnt a single point of failure.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-04 10:26 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <20160504102632.c39d7ed7e88c9d91f6b5f858@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #163181 |
On Wed, 4 May 2016 06:24:54 +0100 Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: > On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > > On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT > > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. > >> It is worrisome. > > > > Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the > > house we have three independent routes to the internet, this is not > > unusual. > > > > It is the internet that is the single point of failure. Countries can > restrict it to a single entry point. China is working on this. That's rather a large single point - one with considerable built in redundancy. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-04 13:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <7g2pvc-3gh.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163186 |
In article <20160504102632.c39d7ed7e88c9d91f6b5f858@eircom.net>, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >On Wed, 4 May 2016 06:24:54 +0100 >Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: > >> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >> > On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >> > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >> >> It is worrisome. >> > >> > Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the >> > house we have three independent routes to the internet, this is not >> > unusual. >> > >> >> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. Countries can >> restrict it to a single entry point. China is working on this. > > That's rather a large single point - one with considerable built in >redundancy. The problem here is not one of technology. It is about freedom. The freedom issue has two angles; first it is about freedom of expression. Second it is the freedom of doing business. China is dead rotten on the first one, and only barely adequate on the second one. Any ISP can impose, technically, all the censorship they like on their customers. In the "open 38" they will shoot themselves in the foot and be bankrupt pretty fast if they did that. Or be directly against net neutrality legislation, making it directly illegal. In the Far East you only have Japan, South Korea and Taiwan that have any hope of having a both competitive and free network. Plus AU+NZ. India fails on the competition side, and lacks the basic infrastructure on all levels. This also plugs up Bangla Desh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan and possibly Burma and Pakistan. Not that these countries don't have large issues on freedom themselves. Thailand is run by generals. Viet Nam, Laos, Burma, China, North Korea are communist dictatorships. Cambodia is in the same situation as India, as is Indonesia. Malaysia and Singapore are closer, but both are strong nanny states. East Timor and Papua don't have the infrastrucure. The Philippines are too corrupt, with all telco licensing in a morass of red tape. All the arab states except Tunis and Jordan have extremely freedom-hostile governments. Tunis and Jordan, plus Turkey, are canditates, but do not move in the right direction. So, this leaves Israel as the single contender in the area. But they have military issues that may impinge on network neutrality. So, for this half of humanity, shortwave is still a better alternative for the dissemination of free speech. -- mrr
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-04 14:38 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <20160504143855.5dafa714ffe91e275ec34045@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #163187 |
On Wed, 4 May 2016 13:20:07 +0200 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: > In article <20160504102632.c39d7ed7e88c9d91f6b5f858@eircom.net>, > Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > >On Wed, 4 May 2016 06:24:54 +0100 > >Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: > > > >> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >> > On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT > >> > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. > >> >> It is worrisome. > >> > > >> > Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the > >> > house we have three independent routes to the internet, this is not > >> > unusual. > >> > > >> > >> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. Countries can > >> restrict it to a single entry point. China is working on this. > > > > That's rather a large single point - one with considerable built > > in > >redundancy. > > The problem here is not one of technology. It is about freedom. > > The freedom issue has two angles; first it is about freedom of expression. > Second it is the freedom of doing business. > > China is dead rotten on the first one, and only barely adequate > on the second one. > > Any ISP can impose, technically, all the censorship they like on > their customers. Only if they block or visibly intercept end-to-end encrypted connections, otherwise VPN is a possible bypass. > In the "open 38" they will shoot themselves in the > foot and be bankrupt pretty fast if they did that. Or be directly > against net neutrality legislation, making it directly illegal. All it takes is a satellite connection to completely bypass a national or ISP firewall, getting the hardware and an account would likely take considerable finesse in some regimes though. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-05 07:20 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <MPG.3194f6a9526707ad98a168@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #163201 |
In article <20160504143855.5dafa714ffe91e275ec34045@eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says... > > On Wed, 4 May 2016 13:20:07 +0200 > Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: > > > In article <20160504102632.c39d7ed7e88c9d91f6b5f858@eircom.net>, > > Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > > >On Wed, 4 May 2016 06:24:54 +0100 > > >Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: > > > > > >> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > > >> > On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT > > >> > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. > > >> >> It is worrisome. > > >> > > > >> > Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the > > >> > house we have three independent routes to the internet, this is not > > >> > unusual. > > >> > > > >> > > >> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. Countries can > > >> restrict it to a single entry point. China is working on this. > > > > > > That's rather a large single point - one with considerable built > > > in > > >redundancy. > > > > The problem here is not one of technology. It is about freedom. > > > > The freedom issue has two angles; first it is about freedom of expression. > > Second it is the freedom of doing business. > > > > China is dead rotten on the first one, and only barely adequate > > on the second one. > > > > Any ISP can impose, technically, all the censorship they like on > > their customers. > > Only if they block or visibly intercept end-to-end encrypted > connections, otherwise VPN is a possible bypass. And why would they not block such connections? > > In the "open 38" they will shoot themselves in the > > foot and be bankrupt pretty fast if they did that. Or be directly > > against net neutrality legislation, making it directly illegal. > > All it takes is a satellite connection to completely bypass a > national or ISP firewall, getting the hardware and an account would likely > take considerable finesse in some regimes though. If there is a convenient satellite and if the satellite operator will accept connections from a country that has proven satellite-intercept capability and doesn't want them to accept the connection. And once the government finds you they are likely to take your toys away and make your life miserable if you are allowed to keep it.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-06 05:11 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dp1k71FepuaU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163258 |
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.3194f6a9526707ad98a168@news.eternal-september.org... > In article <20160504143855.5dafa714ffe91e275ec34045@eircom.net>, > steveo@eircom.net says... >> >> On Wed, 4 May 2016 13:20:07 +0200 >> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: >> >> > In article <20160504102632.c39d7ed7e88c9d91f6b5f858@eircom.net>, >> > Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >> > >On Wed, 4 May 2016 06:24:54 +0100 >> > >Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >> > > >> > >> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >> > >> > On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >> > >> > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >> > >> >> It is worrisome. >> > >> > >> > >> > Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the >> > >> > house we have three independent routes to the internet, this is >> > >> > not >> > >> > unusual. >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. Countries >> > >> can >> > >> restrict it to a single entry point. China is working on this. >> > > >> > > That's rather a large single point - one with considerable built >> > > in >> > >redundancy. >> > >> > The problem here is not one of technology. It is about freedom. >> > >> > The freedom issue has two angles; first it is about freedom of >> > expression. >> > Second it is the freedom of doing business. >> > >> > China is dead rotten on the first one, and only barely adequate >> > on the second one. >> > >> > Any ISP can impose, technically, all the censorship they like on >> > their customers. >> >> Only if they block or visibly intercept end-to-end encrypted >> connections, otherwise VPN is a possible bypass. > > And why would they not block such connections? Easier said than done to do that reliably. >> > In the "open 38" they will shoot themselves in the >> > foot and be bankrupt pretty fast if they did that. Or be directly >> > against net neutrality legislation, making it directly illegal. >> >> All it takes is a satellite connection to completely bypass a >> national or ISP firewall, getting the hardware and an account would >> likely >> take considerable finesse in some regimes though. > > If there is a convenient satellite There always is. > and if the satellite operator will accept connections from > a country that has proven satellite-intercept capability > and doesn't want them to accept the connection. They don't necessarily know which country it is coming from. > And once the government finds you Again, easier said than done. > they are likely to take your toys away and make > your life miserable if you are allowed to keep it.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-05 05:30 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dov0tvFt6kgU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163187 |
"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message news:7g2pvc-3gh.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... > In article <20160504102632.c39d7ed7e88c9d91f6b5f858@eircom.net>, > Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >>On Wed, 4 May 2016 06:24:54 +0100 >>Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote: >> >>> On 03/05/2016 13:37, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>> > On 3 May 2016 11:50:51 GMT >>> > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Note that this is a single-point failure in communications. >>> >> It is worrisome. >>> > >>> > Not really between the main feed and the cellphones in the >>> > house we have three independent routes to the internet, this is not >>> > unusual. >>> > >>> >>> It is the internet that is the single point of failure. Countries can >>> restrict it to a single entry point. China is working on this. >> >> That's rather a large single point - one with considerable built in >>redundancy. > > The problem here is not one of technology. It is about freedom. > > The freedom issue has two angles; first it is about freedom of expression. > Second it is the freedom of doing business. > > China is dead rotten on the first one, and only barely adequate > on the second one. > > Any ISP can impose, technically, all the censorship they like on > their customers. In the "open 38" they will shoot themselves in the > foot and be bankrupt pretty fast if they did that. Or be directly > against net neutrality legislation, making it directly illegal. > > In the Far East you only have Japan, South Korea and Taiwan that have > any hope of having a both competitive and free network. Plus AU+NZ. > > India fails on the competition side, and lacks the basic infrastructure > on all levels. This also plugs up Bangla Desh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, > Bhutan and possibly Burma and Pakistan. Not that these countries > don't have large issues on freedom themselves. > > Thailand is run by generals. Viet Nam, Laos, Burma, China, North Korea > are communist dictatorships. Cambodia is in the same situation as > India, as is Indonesia. Malaysia and Singapore are closer, but > both are strong nanny states. > > East Timor and Papua don't have the infrastrucure. > > The Philippines are too corrupt, with all telco licensing > in a morass of red tape. > > All the arab states except Tunis and Jordan have extremely > freedom-hostile governments. Tunis and Jordan, plus Turkey, > are canditates, but do not move in the right direction. So, > this leaves Israel as the single contender in the area. But > they have military issues that may impinge on network neutrality. > > So, for this half of humanity, shortwave is still a better alternative > for the dissemination of free speech. Like hell it is. China does fine with the mobile/cellphone system and so do all of those you listed.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-05 15:14 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <87mvo4sl46.fsf@eder.anydns.info> |
| In reply to | #163187 |
Morten Reistad @ 2016-05-04 13:20 +02: > Thailand is run by generals. Viet Nam, Laos, Burma, China, North Korea > are communist dictatorships. Cambodia is in the same situation as > India, as is Indonesia. Malaysia and Singapore are closer, but > both are strong nanny states. Burma has never been a communist dictatorship. Dictatorship yes, but I don#t think that you could call the generals communists, though they were on friendly terms with China. We will have to wait and see how it works out now. 'Andreas
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-05 18:34 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <aa9svc-1qm.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163267 |
In article <87mvo4sl46.fsf@eder.anydns.info>, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote: >Morten Reistad @ 2016-05-04 13:20 +02: > >> Thailand is run by generals. Viet Nam, Laos, Burma, China, North Korea >> are communist dictatorships. Cambodia is in the same situation as >> India, as is Indonesia. Malaysia and Singapore are closer, but >> both are strong nanny states. > >Burma has never been a communist dictatorship. >Dictatorship yes, but I don#t think that you could call the generals >communists, though they were on friendly terms with China. >We will have to wait and see how it works out now. Communist, socialist, whatever. They used the standard communist habe-habe and made the communist international alliances, which is why I included them. And, yes, they were a dictatorship all right, pretty much a totalitarian one. But they have/had weird internal ideology, organisation etc that only superficially match a communist state. But there have been weirder. Like Romania, Or Egypt. Or Sudan. All called themselves communist or some form of socialist that were pretty synonymous. And were more or less personal empires of their leaders. (OK, Nasser was complex; but that only reinforces the argument for this one). When it comes to personal freedom. freedom of expression and freedom of enterprise the distinction is pretty moot when it comes to Burma. This is one of those countries where it wouldn't surprise me if they did a Saudi Arabia; having one firewall cluster for the whole country. Yes, they are opening up. But still not enough to trust by any means. Stick to the shortwave, for now. -- mrr
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-06 05:35 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <dp1lk8Ff3kdU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163274 |
"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message news:aa9svc-1qm.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... > In article <87mvo4sl46.fsf@eder.anydns.info>, > Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote: >>Morten Reistad @ 2016-05-04 13:20 +02: >> >>> Thailand is run by generals. Viet Nam, Laos, Burma, China, North Korea >>> are communist dictatorships. Cambodia is in the same situation as >>> India, as is Indonesia. Malaysia and Singapore are closer, but >>> both are strong nanny states. >> >>Burma has never been a communist dictatorship. >>Dictatorship yes, but I don#t think that you could call the generals >>communists, though they were on friendly terms with China. >>We will have to wait and see how it works out now. > > Communist, socialist, whatever. You can't do that. If you do that much of western europe, particularly scandinavia would be communist and it isnt, its just socialist. Particularly with the way Norway does its oil and gas and power generation, with the govt doing it. Its socialist, not communist. > They used the standard communist habe-habe What ? > and made the communist international alliances, Essentially because most of the rest the world wouldn’t have anything to do with them. > which is why I included them. You shouldn’t have. > And, yes, they were a dictatorship all > right, pretty much a totalitarian one. Sure, but that doesn’t make them communist. > But they have/had weird internal ideology, organisation > etc that only superficially match a communist state. So it is in fact nothing like a real communist state. > But there have been weirder. Like Romania, Or Egypt. Or Sudan. > All called themselves communist or some form of socialist So has most of scandinavia. > that were pretty synonymous. No they are not. Nothing even remotely synonymous. > And were more or less personal empires of their leaders. But not communist. > (OK, Nasser was complex; but that only > reinforces the argument for this one). No it does not. > When it comes to personal freedom. freedom of expression and > freedom of enterprise the distinction is pretty moot when it > comes to Burma. Sure, but that doesn’t make them communist, just a dictatorship with very like personal freedom. freedom of expression and freedom of enterprise. That was just as true of Hitler's regime, and Mussolini's. Neither was anything even remotely communist and Hitler was in fact always a rabid anti communist. > This is one of those countries where it wouldn't surprise > me if they did a Saudi Arabia; having one firewall cluster > for the whole country. Doesn’t help with the mobile/cellphone traffic. > Yes, they are opening up. But still not enough to trust by > any means. Stick to the shortwave, for now. No thanks, the mobile/cellphone and satellite systems leave it for dead.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-06 15:15 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: AM radio Qbasic |
| Message-ID | <b0iuvc-hqo.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163284 |
In article <dp1lk8Ff3kdU1@mid.individual.net>, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote: > > >"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message >news:aa9svc-1qm.ln1@sambook.reistad.name... >> In article <87mvo4sl46.fsf@eder.anydns.info>, >> Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote: >>>Morten Reistad @ 2016-05-04 13:20 +02: >>> >>>> Thailand is run by generals. Viet Nam, Laos, Burma, China, North Korea >>>> are communist dictatorships. Cambodia is in the same situation as >>>> India, as is Indonesia. Malaysia and Singapore are closer, but >>>> both are strong nanny states. >>> >>>Burma has never been a communist dictatorship. >>>Dictatorship yes, but I don#t think that you could call the generals >>>communists, though they were on friendly terms with China. >>>We will have to wait and see how it works out now. >> >> Communist, socialist, whatever. > >You can't do that. If you do that much of western europe, >particularly scandinavia would be communist and it isnt, >its just socialist. Particularly with the way Norway does its >oil and gas and power generation, with the govt doing it. You are clueless. Except for the german occupation 1940-1945 Norway was a democracy about 20 years behind the US in development from 1814 until we had full suffrage 1913. This should rank us among the to 10 in the world in individual liberty in the period 1814-1940. The US, NL, UK were ahead, and CA+AU+NZ+FR+CH+DK about on par. SE was behind, and the stresses that caused were the real reasons of the union breakup. Rule of law was established after our civil war that ended in 1172. This also ended slavery (with a 30-year emancipation process, ending in 1202). Some kings tried to usurp this, and succeeded for around half a decade each. The worst one was Christan 2nd in 1548 who suspended the courts for 12 years. >Its socialist, not communist. The Nordic area had a historic compromise between the big capital and the Social Democrats, originating in Sweden in march 1944, but silently adopted in the other countries. The adversaries were the feudal remnants, especially strong in Denmark and Sweden. Sweden had semi-slavery (Statare) until June 1944, abolished by this compromise. Big capital got to handle the corporations, and the social democrats the government. There were intense clampdowns on communists, especially in 1948. Social Democracy and Socialism are two very different systems. Back to Burma. >> They used the standard communist habe-habe > >What ? Ideological propaganda. Habe-Habe is originally Swahili; and means "talk-talk"; using the very doubling in their grammar to negate the original meaning. It means something like chitchat to mindless propaganda. It has entered western languages as an idiom. When you talk without your brain engaged. >> and made the communist international alliances, > >Essentially because most of the rest the world >wouldn’t have anything to do with them. They could have gone for the neutral alliances. As did Egypt, India, et.al. They instead went for USSR+all the proxy wars and revolutionary governments they propped up. >> which is why I included them. > >You shouldn’t have. > >> And, yes, they were a dictatorship all >> right, pretty much a totalitarian one. > >Sure, but that doesn’t make them communist. If you are picky, not one of the "communist" states are. I may be a bit brazen, but I stand by my classification of Burma as a communist dictatorship. Agree to disagree. >> But they have/had weird internal ideology, organisation >> etc that only superficially match a communist state. > >So it is in fact nothing like a real communist state. > >> But there have been weirder. Like Romania, Or Egypt. Or Sudan. >> All called themselves communist or some form of socialist > >So has most of scandinavia. No, they have always delacred themselves mixed economies or social democracies. >> that were pretty synonymous. > >No they are not. Nothing even remotely synonymous. > >> And were more or less personal empires of their leaders. > >But not communist. What was the communist leaders, then? Stalin? Lenin? Mao? Ho? >> (OK, Nasser was complex; but that only >> reinforces the argument for this one). > >No it does not. > >> When it comes to personal freedom. freedom of expression and >> freedom of enterprise the distinction is pretty moot when it >> comes to Burma. > >Sure, but that doesn’t make them communist, just >a dictatorship with very like personal freedom. >freedom of expression and freedom of enterprise. > >That was just as true of Hitler's regime, and Mussolini's. > >Neither was anything even remotely communist and >Hitler was in fact always a rabid anti communist. > >> This is one of those countries where it wouldn't surprise >> me if they did a Saudi Arabia; having one firewall cluster >> for the whole country. > >Doesn’t help with the mobile/cellphone traffic. You are clueless to how the Internet operates. You cannot make an internet connection without a packet handler; a.k.a. Internet gateway. OK, you could use GPRS, but that is also usually itercepted on national boudaries and given a free IP connection. Always in the "closed 50". You can only get speech/sms and possibly fax out of the country. And the speech is ALWAYS transcoded. MMS are on top of IP. IP runs through the national firewall(s). >> Yes, they are opening up. But still not enough to trust by >> any means. Stick to the shortwave, for now. > >No thanks, the mobile/cellphone and satellite systems leave it for dead. Satellite has successfully sent shortwave transmissions. To Burma, no less (from Norway, via geostationary Satellite. Radio Free Burma, located in Oslo). So, yes, with Satellites you have a point. But for the crisis, listen to SW. Like the tin miners in the high Andes. They tune in to the BBC every day for the metal exchange report, for the world market prices. I doubt if any of them have Internet yet. Only around 3 billion people have Internet connections; a bit vague because around 1/3rd of all internet users are via some local wifi which makes it very difficult to count. We will get to the 2/3rds mark with GSM in a month or so; 2/3rds of humanity can send and receive SMSes. SW does not require a subscription. -- mrr
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 32 of 50 — ← Prev page 1 … 30 31 [32] 33 34 … 50 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | alt.folklore.computers
csiph-web