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Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute

Started byMattb. <trdell1234@outlook.com>
First post2016-03-04 14:13 -0800
Last post2016-03-06 10:54 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 34 — 9 participants

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  Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute Mattb. <trdell1234@outlook.com> - 2016-03-04 14:13 -0800
    Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-04 23:04 +0000
      Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-05 09:08 +0000
        Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 12:42 +0000
          Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-05 13:03 +0000
            Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 13:47 +0000
              Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-05 14:04 +0000
                Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 14:31 +0000
                  Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 19:14 +0000
                    Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 12:18 -0700
                      Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 19:28 +0000
                    Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 21:08 +0000
                      Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 23:28 +0000
                        Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 16:53 -0700
                          Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-06 12:41 +0000
                    Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-05 23:46 +0000
                  Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-05 23:53 +0000
                Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-03-05 23:46 +0000
                  Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-06 00:07 +0000
                    Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-03-06 19:56 +0000
              Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 19:15 +0000
            Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute Don Kresch <no@spam.org> - 2016-03-06 15:41 -0600
        Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute MattB <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 10:05 -0800
      Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute MattB <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 10:01 -0800
        Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 19:25 +0000
          Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute MattB <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 10:51 -0800
            Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-06 19:57 +0000
            Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-07 11:28 +0000
    Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute MarkA <someone@somewhere.invalid> - 2016-03-05 01:10 +0000
      Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute MattB <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 09:53 -0800
    Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-03-05 02:23 -0800
      Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute MattB <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 09:56 -0800
        Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-03-05 23:51 +0000
          Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute MattB <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 10:54 -0800

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#2069968 — Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute

FromMattb. <trdell1234@outlook.com>
Date2016-03-04 14:13 -0800
SubjectAtheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
Message-ID<322kdbdf76es8q7rmjj2ln2c7k5iid95kk@4ax.com>
Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282

An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance to deliver
the chamber's opening prayer by majority Republican leaders last month
got the opportunity Thursday, only to see leaders rule his prayer
didn't pass muster and call up a Christian pastor.

The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a call to work to
help the state and its residents flourish and to "honor the
Constitution and the secular equality it brings." But he didn't pray
to any deity, which infuriated some Republicans who are Christians.


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#2069998

From"Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c>
Date2016-03-04 23:04 +0000
Message-ID<979pr7.4p8.19.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2069968
Mattb. wrote:

> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
> 
>
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
> 
> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance to deliver
> the chamber's opening prayer by majority Republican leaders last month
> got the opportunity Thursday, only to see leaders rule his prayer
> didn't pass muster and call up a Christian pastor.
> 
> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a call to work to
> help the state and its residents flourish and to "honor the
> Constitution and the secular equality it brings." But he didn't pray
> to any deity, which infuriated some Republicans who are Christians.

Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve Montenegro said
Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't meet House rules he issued
earlier this year for the opening prayer. Speaker David Gowan then said
"point of order well taken".'

If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM and that
would've satisfied the "House rules".

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#2070254

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-03-05 09:08 +0000
Message-ID<djvm08Fqbh2U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2069998
On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> Mattb. wrote:
>
>> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
>>
>>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
>>
>> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance to deliver
>> the chamber's opening prayer by majority Republican leaders last month
>> got the opportunity Thursday, only to see leaders rule his prayer
>> didn't pass muster and call up a Christian pastor.
>>
>> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a call to work to
>> help the state and its residents flourish and to "honor the
>> Constitution and the secular equality it brings." But he didn't pray
>> to any deity, which infuriated some Republicans who are Christians.
>
> Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve Montenegro said
> Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't meet House rules he issued
> earlier this year for the opening prayer. Speaker David Gowan then said
> "point of order well taken".'
>
> If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM and that
> would've satisfied the "House rules".
>

Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to Satan....

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#2070300

From"Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c>
Date2016-03-05 12:42 +0000
Message-ID<97b9on.m7p.17.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2070254
Alex W. wrote:

> On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > Mattb. wrote:
> > 
> > > Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
> > > 
> > > 
> >
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
> > > 
> > > An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance to
> > > deliver the chamber's opening prayer by majority Republican
> > > leaders last month got the opportunity Thursday, only to see
> > > leaders rule his prayer didn't pass muster and call up a
> > > Christian pastor.
> > > 
> > > The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a call to
> > > work to help the state and its residents flourish and to "honor
> > > the Constitution and the secular equality it brings." But he
> > > didn't pray to any deity, which infuriated some Republicans who
> > > are Christians.
> > 
> > Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve Montenegro
> > said Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't meet House rules
> > he issued earlier this year for the opening prayer. Speaker David
> > Gowan then said "point of order well taken".'
> > 
> > If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM and that
> > would've satisfied the "House rules".
> > 
> 
> Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to Satan....

He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is referred to
in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the prayer might still have
satisfied the House rule.

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#2070307

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-03-05 13:03 +0000
Message-ID<dk03p8Ftqd9U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2070300
On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> Alex W. wrote:
>
>> On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>> Mattb. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
>>>>
>>>> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance to
>>>> deliver the chamber's opening prayer by majority Republican
>>>> leaders last month got the opportunity Thursday, only to see
>>>> leaders rule his prayer didn't pass muster and call up a
>>>> Christian pastor.
>>>>
>>>> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a call to
>>>> work to help the state and its residents flourish and to "honor
>>>> the Constitution and the secular equality it brings." But he
>>>> didn't pray to any deity, which infuriated some Republicans who
>>>> are Christians.
>>>
>>> Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve Montenegro
>>> said Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't meet House rules
>>> he issued earlier this year for the opening prayer. Speaker David
>>> Gowan then said "point of order well taken".'
>>>
>>> If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM and that
>>> would've satisfied the "House rules".
>>>
>>
>> Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to Satan....
>
> He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is referred to
> in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the prayer might still have
> satisfied the House rule.
>

If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he should 
table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal definition of "god"...

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#2070322

From"Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c>
Date2016-03-05 13:47 +0000
Message-ID<97bdi9.gqh.19.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2070307
Alex W. wrote:

> On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > Alex W. wrote:
> > 
> > > On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > > > Mattb. wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> >
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
> > > > > 
> > > > > An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance to
> > > > > deliver the chamber's opening prayer by majority Republican
> > > > > leaders last month got the opportunity Thursday, only to see
> > > > > leaders rule his prayer didn't pass muster and call up a
> > > > > Christian pastor.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a call to
> > > > > work to help the state and its residents flourish and to
> > > > > "honor the Constitution and the secular equality it brings."
> > > > > But he didn't pray to any deity, which infuriated some
> > > > > Republicans who are Christians.
> > > > 
> > > > Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve Montenegro
> > > > said Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't meet House
> > > > rules he issued earlier this year for the opening prayer.
> > > > Speaker David Gowan then said "point of order well taken".'
> > > > 
> > > > If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM and
> > > > that would've satisfied the "House rules".
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to Satan....
> > 
> > He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is referred
> > to in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the prayer might
> > still have satisfied the House rule.
> > 
> 
> If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he should
> table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal definition of
> "god"...

They might've even killed him for that.

What would have happened in the UK for a comparable situation?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2070327

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-03-05 14:04 +0000
Message-ID<dk07asF87eU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2070322
On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> Alex W. wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>> Mattb. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance to
>>>>>> deliver the chamber's opening prayer by majority Republican
>>>>>> leaders last month got the opportunity Thursday, only to see
>>>>>> leaders rule his prayer didn't pass muster and call up a
>>>>>> Christian pastor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a call to
>>>>>> work to help the state and its residents flourish and to
>>>>>> "honor the Constitution and the secular equality it brings."
>>>>>> But he didn't pray to any deity, which infuriated some
>>>>>> Republicans who are Christians.
>>>>>
>>>>> Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve Montenegro
>>>>> said Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't meet House
>>>>> rules he issued earlier this year for the opening prayer.
>>>>> Speaker David Gowan then said "point of order well taken".'
>>>>>
>>>>> If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM and
>>>>> that would've satisfied the "House rules".
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to Satan....
>>>
>>> He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is referred
>>> to in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the prayer might
>>> still have satisfied the House rule.
>>>
>>
>> If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he should
>> table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal definition of
>> "god"...
>
> They might've even killed him for that.
>
> What would have happened in the UK for a comparable situation?
>

Nothing at all.

We don't do god in public life.

If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the troops into Iraq 
-- praying and reading the bible to seek divine guidance -- he would not 
have been prime minister long enough to see us conquering Baghdad.

We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new leader of the 
Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to meet the Queen and go down 
on one knee.  When he refused to do so, being a republican, it caused a 
major uproar.  His religion is never mentioned....

Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for official acts 
we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all the words without anyone 
having to make a personal declaration of (un)belief.  All very civilised.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2070341

From"Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c>
Date2016-03-05 14:31 +0000
Message-ID<97bg5d.vsc.19.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2070327
Alex W. wrote:

> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > Alex W. wrote:
> > 
> > > On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > > > Alex W. wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > > > > > Mattb. wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> >
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance
> > > > > > > to deliver the chamber's opening prayer by majority
> > > > > > > Republican leaders last month got the opportunity
> > > > > > > Thursday, only to see leaders rule his prayer didn't pass
> > > > > > > muster and call up a Christian pastor.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a
> > > > > > > call to work to help the state and its residents flourish
> > > > > > > and to "honor the Constitution and the secular equality
> > > > > > > it brings." But he didn't pray to any deity, which
> > > > > > > infuriated some Republicans who are Christians.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve
> > > > > > Montenegro said Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't
> > > > > > meet House rules he issued earlier this year for the
> > > > > > opening prayer.  Speaker David Gowan then said "point of
> > > > > > order well taken".'
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM
> > > > > > and that would've satisfied the "House rules".
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to Satan....
> > > > 
> > > > He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is
> > > > referred to in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the
> > > > prayer might still have satisfied the House rule.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he
> > > should table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal
> > > definition of "god"...
> > 
> > They might've even killed him for that.
> > 
> > What would have happened in the UK for a comparable situation?
> > 
> 
> Nothing at all.
> 
> We don't do god in public life.
> 
> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the troops into
> Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine guidance -- he
> would not have been prime minister long enough to see us conquering
> Baghdad.
> 
> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new leader of the
> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to meet the Queen and go
> down on one knee.  When he refused to do so, being a republican, it
> caused a major uproar.  His religion is never mentioned....
> 
> Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for official
> acts we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all the words without
> anyone having to make a personal declaration of (un)belief.  All very
> civilised.

What a shame that we didn't inherit more of that attitude from you
guys.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2070431

From"Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c>
Date2016-03-05 19:14 +0000
Message-ID<97c0o0.vid.19.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2070341
Christopher A. Lee wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:31:39 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
> 
> > Alex W. wrote:
> > 
> >> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> >> > Alex W. wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > > On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> >> > > > Alex W. wrote:
> >> > > > 
> >> > > > > On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> >> > > > > > Mattb. wrote:
> >> > > > > > 
> >> > > > > > > Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House
> Dispute >> > > > > > > 
> >> > > > > > > 
> >> > > > > > 
> >> > > > 
> >> >
> >
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
> >> > > > > > > 
> >> > > > > > > An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the
> chance >> > > > > > > to deliver the chamber's opening prayer by
> majority >> > > > > > > Republican leaders last month got the
> opportunity >> > > > > > > Thursday, only to see leaders rule his
> prayer didn't pass >> > > > > > > muster and call up a Christian
> pastor.  >> > > > > > > 
> >> > > > > > > The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a
> >> > > > > > > call to work to help the state and its residents
> flourish >> > > > > > > and to "honor the Constitution and the
> secular equality >> > > > > > > it brings." But he didn't pray to any
> deity, which >> > > > > > > infuriated some Republicans who are
> Christians.  >> > > > > > 
> >> > > > > > Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve
> >> > > > > > Montenegro said Mendez's decision not to pray to God
> didn't >> > > > > > meet House rules he issued earlier this year for
> the >> > > > > > opening prayer.  Speaker David Gowan then said
> "point of >> > > > > > order well taken".'
> >> > > > > > 
> >> > > > > > If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM
> >> > > > > > and that would've satisfied the "House rules".
> >> > > > > > 
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to
> Satan....  >> > > > 
> >> > > > He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is
> >> > > > referred to in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the
> >> > > > prayer might still have satisfied the House rule.
> >> > > > 
> >> > > 
> >> > > If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he
> >> > > should table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal
> >> > > definition of "god"...
> >> > 
> >> > They might've even killed him for that.
> >> > 
> >> > What would have happened in the UK for a comparable situation?
> >> > 
> >> 
> >> Nothing at all.
> >> 
> >> We don't do god in public life.
> >> 
> >> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the troops into
> >> Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine guidance -- he
> >> would not have been prime minister long enough to see us conquering
> >> Baghdad.
> 
> He said afterwards that he "consulted God" before ordering the
> invasion.
> 
> He also said at the same time that he had kept quiet about it because
> people would think he was a religious nutter.
> 
> Unlike the reaction to Bush in the USA, the British were horrified.
> 
> >> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new leader of
> the >> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to meet the Queen
> and go >> down on one knee.  When he refused to do so, being a
> republican, it >> caused a major uproar.  His religion is never
> mentioned....  >> 
> >> Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for official
> >> acts we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all the words without
> >> anyone having to make a personal declaration of (un)belief.  All
> very >> civilised.
> 
> And very few people  take any notice of the state religion.
> 
> Although its high-ups imagine they do.
> 
> Every so often some Bishop or Archbishop tells a largely non-believing
> country to start believing in Santa Claus again. Or was it God?
> Anyway, they're too stupid to understand that there's no substantive
> difference to most of their audience.
> 
> > What a shame that we didn't inherit more of that attitude from you
> > guys.
> 
> I can't imagine anybody like David Jenkins, the Bishop of Durham
> between 1984 and 1994, in the USA.
> 
> He was a very liberal theologian, who said things like not believing
> in the virgin birth because that sort of thing didn't happen. The
> conservatives vilified him for it, and when York Minster was struck by
> lightning they said that was Gawd's punishment for ordaining him.
> 
> The story is that he was chosen because Margaret Thatcher offered two
> alternatives - her choice and somebody she thought wouldn't be
> acceptable. But her choice was even less acceptable so she was stuck
> with Jenkins and had to advise the Queen (the nominal  head of the
> CofE but who carries out the advice of her Prime Minister in matters
> of state) to make him Bishop.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jenkins_%28bishop%29

Makes me envious of the Brits.

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#2070436

From"%" <persent@gmail.com>
Date2016-03-05 12:18 -0700
Message-ID<97c0u9.saj.17.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2070431
Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:31:39 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
>> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
>>
>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Mattb. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House
>> Dispute >> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the
>> chance >> > > > > > > to deliver the chamber's opening prayer by
>> majority >> > > > > > > Republican leaders last month got the
>> opportunity >> > > > > > > Thursday, only to see leaders rule his
>> prayer didn't pass >> > > > > > > muster and call up a Christian
>> pastor.  >> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a
>>>>>>>>>> call to work to help the state and its residents
>> flourish >> > > > > > > and to "honor the Constitution and the
>> secular equality >> > > > > > > it brings." But he didn't pray to any
>> deity, which >> > > > > > > infuriated some Republicans who are
>> Christians.  >> > > > > >
>>>>>>>>> Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve
>>>>>>>>> Montenegro said Mendez's decision not to pray to God
>> didn't >> > > > > > meet House rules he issued earlier this year for
>> the >> > > > > > opening prayer.  Speaker David Gowan then said
>> "point of >> > > > > > order well taken".'
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM
>>>>>>>>> and that would've satisfied the "House rules".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to
>> Satan....  >> > > >
>>>>>>> He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is
>>>>>>> referred to in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the
>>>>>>> prayer might still have satisfied the House rule.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he
>>>>>> should table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal
>>>>>> definition of "god"...
>>>>>
>>>>> They might've even killed him for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> What would have happened in the UK for a comparable situation?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nothing at all.
>>>>
>>>> We don't do god in public life.
>>>>
>>>> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the troops into
>>>> Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine guidance -- he
>>>> would not have been prime minister long enough to see us conquering
>>>> Baghdad.
>>
>> He said afterwards that he "consulted God" before ordering the
>> invasion.
>>
>> He also said at the same time that he had kept quiet about it because
>> people would think he was a religious nutter.
>>
>> Unlike the reaction to Bush in the USA, the British were horrified.
>>
>>>> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new leader of
>> the >> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to meet the Queen
>> and go >> down on one knee.  When he refused to do so, being a
>> republican, it >> caused a major uproar.  His religion is never
>> mentioned....  >>
>>>> Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for official
>>>> acts we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all the words without
>>>> anyone having to make a personal declaration of (un)belief.  All
>> very >> civilised.
>>
>> And very few people  take any notice of the state religion.
>>
>> Although its high-ups imagine they do.
>>
>> Every so often some Bishop or Archbishop tells a largely
>> non-believing
>> country to start believing in Santa Claus again. Or was it God?
>> Anyway, they're too stupid to understand that there's no substantive
>> difference to most of their audience.
>>
>>> What a shame that we didn't inherit more of that attitude from you
>>> guys.
>>
>> I can't imagine anybody like David Jenkins, the Bishop of Durham
>> between 1984 and 1994, in the USA.
>>
>> He was a very liberal theologian, who said things like not believing
>> in the virgin birth because that sort of thing didn't happen. The
>> conservatives vilified him for it, and when York Minster was struck
>> by
>> lightning they said that was Gawd's punishment for ordaining him.
>>
>> The story is that he was chosen because Margaret Thatcher offered two
>> alternatives - her choice and somebody she thought wouldn't be
>> acceptable. But her choice was even less acceptable so she was stuck
>> with Jenkins and had to advise the Queen (the nominal  head of the
>> CofE but who carries out the advice of her Prime Minister in matters
>> of state) to make him Bishop.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jenkins_%28bishop%29
>
> Makes me envious of the Brits.

it should 

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#2070448

From"Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c>
Date2016-03-05 19:28 +0000
Message-ID<97c1i7.vpo.17.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2070436
% wrote:

> Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:31:39 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> >><sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Alex W. wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > > > > > Alex W. wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > > > > > > > Alex W. wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Mattb. wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House
> >>Dispute >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> >
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the
> >>chance >> > > > > > > to deliver the chamber's opening prayer by
> >>majority >> > > > > > > Republican leaders last month got the
> >>opportunity >> > > > > > > Thursday, only to see leaders rule his
> >>prayer didn't pass >> > > > > > > muster and call up a Christian
> >>pastor.  >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez
> > > > > > > > > > > included a call to work to help the state and its
> > > > > > > > > > > residents
> >>flourish >> > > > > > > and to "honor the Constitution and the
> >>secular equality >> > > > > > > it brings." But he didn't pray to
> any >>deity, which >> > > > > > > infuriated some Republicans who are
> >>Christians.  >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader
> > > > > > > > > > Steve Montenegro said Mendez's decision not to pray
> > > > > > > > > > to God
> >>didn't >> > > > > > meet House rules he issued earlier this year for
> >>the >> > > > > > opening prayer.  Speaker David Gowan then said
> >>"point of >> > > > > > order well taken".'
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to
> > > > > > > > > > The FSM and that would've satisfied the "House
> > > > > > > > > > rules".
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to
> >>Satan....  >> > > >
> > > > > > > > He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan
> > > > > > > > is referred to in the Bible as "the god of this world",
> > > > > > > > so the prayer might still have satisfied the House rule.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons,
> > > > > > > he should table a motion asking for a comprehensive
> > > > > > > universal definition of "god"...
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > They might've even killed him for that.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > What would have happened in the UK for a comparable
> > > > > > situation?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Nothing at all.
> > > > > 
> > > > > We don't do god in public life.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the
> > > > > troops into Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek
> > > > > divine guidance -- he would not have been prime minister long
> > > > > enough to see us conquering Baghdad.
> > > 
> > > He said afterwards that he "consulted God" before ordering the
> > > invasion.
> > > 
> > > He also said at the same time that he had kept quiet about it
> > > because people would think he was a religious nutter.
> > > 
> > > Unlike the reaction to Bush in the USA, the British were
> > > horrified.
> > > 
> > > > > We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new leader
> > > > > of
> >>the >> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to meet the Queen
> >>and go >> down on one knee.  When he refused to do so, being a
> >>republican, it >> caused a major uproar.  His religion is never
> > > mentioned....  >>
> > > > > Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for
> > > > > official acts we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all
> > > > > the words without anyone having to make a personal
> > > > > declaration of (un)belief.  All
> >>very >> civilised.
> > > 
> > > And very few people  take any notice of the state religion.
> > > 
> > > Although its high-ups imagine they do.
> > > 
> > > Every so often some Bishop or Archbishop tells a largely
> > > non-believing
> > > country to start believing in Santa Claus again. Or was it God?
> > > Anyway, they're too stupid to understand that there's no
> > > substantive difference to most of their audience.
> > > 
> > > > What a shame that we didn't inherit more of that attitude from
> > > > you guys.
> > > 
> > > I can't imagine anybody like David Jenkins, the Bishop of Durham
> > > between 1984 and 1994, in the USA.
> > > 
> > > He was a very liberal theologian, who said things like not
> > > believing in the virgin birth because that sort of thing didn't
> > > happen. The conservatives vilified him for it, and when York
> > > Minster was struck by
> > > lightning they said that was Gawd's punishment for ordaining him.
> > > 
> > > The story is that he was chosen because Margaret Thatcher offered
> > > two alternatives - her choice and somebody she thought wouldn't be
> > > acceptable. But her choice was even less acceptable so she was
> > > stuck with Jenkins and had to advise the Queen (the nominal  head
> > > of the CofE but who carries out the advice of her Prime Minister
> > > in matters of state) to make him Bishop.
> > > 
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jenkins_%28bishop%29
> > 
> > Makes me envious of the Brits.
> 
> it should

Yeah. Even you guys in the the Great White North are more sensible than
we are about stuff like that.

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#2070496

From"Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c>
Date2016-03-05 21:08 +0000
Message-ID<97c7de.268.17.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2070431
Christopher A. Lee wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 19:14:38 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
> 
> > Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> > 
> >> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:31:39 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> >> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Alex W. wrote:
> >> > 
> >> >> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> >> >> > Alex W. wrote:
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > > On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> >> >> > > > Alex W. wrote:
> >> >> > > > 
> >> >> > > > > On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> >> >> > > > > > Mattb. wrote:
> >> >> > > > > > 
> >> >> > > > > > > Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House
> >> Dispute >> > > > > > > 
> >> >> > > > > > > 
> >> >> > > > > > 
> >> >> > > > 
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
> >> >> > > > > > > 
> >> >> > > > > > > An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the
> >> chance >> > > > > > > to deliver the chamber's opening prayer by
> >> majority >> > > > > > > Republican leaders last month got the
> >> opportunity >> > > > > > > Thursday, only to see leaders rule his
> >> prayer didn't pass >> > > > > > > muster and call up a Christian
> >> pastor.  >> > > > > > > 
> >> >> > > > > > > The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included
> a >> >> > > > > > > call to work to help the state and its residents
> >> flourish >> > > > > > > and to "honor the Constitution and the
> >> secular equality >> > > > > > > it brings." But he didn't pray to
> any >> deity, which >> > > > > > > infuriated some Republicans who are
> >> Christians.  >> > > > > > 
> >> >> > > > > > Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve
> >> >> > > > > > Montenegro said Mendez's decision not to pray to God
> >> didn't >> > > > > > meet House rules he issued earlier this year
> for >> the >> > > > > > opening prayer.  Speaker David Gowan then said
> >> "point of >> > > > > > order well taken".'
> >> >> > > > > > 
> >> >> > > > > > If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The
> FSM >> >> > > > > > and that would've satisfied the "House rules".
> >> >> > > > > > 
> >> >> > > > > 
> >> >> > > > > Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to
> >> Satan....  >> > > > 
> >> >> > > > He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is
> >> >> > > > referred to in the Bible as "the god of this world", so
> the >> >> > > > prayer might still have satisfied the House rule.
> >> >> > > > 
> >> >> > > 
> >> >> > > If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he
> >> >> > > should table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal
> >> >> > > definition of "god"...
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > They might've even killed him for that.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > What would have happened in the UK for a comparable situation?
> >> >> > 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Nothing at all.
> >> >> 
> >> >> We don't do god in public life.
> >> >> 
> >> >> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the troops
> into >> >> Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine
> guidance -- he >> >> would not have been prime minister long enough
> to see us conquering >> >> Baghdad.
> >> 
> >> He said afterwards that he "consulted God" before ordering the
> >> invasion.
> >> 
> >> He also said at the same time that he had kept quiet about it
> because >> people would think he was a religious nutter.
> >> 
> >> Unlike the reaction to Bush in the USA, the British were horrified.
> >> 
> >> >> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new leader of
> >> the >> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to meet the Queen
> >> and go >> down on one knee.  When he refused to do so, being a
> >> republican, it >> caused a major uproar.  His religion is never
> >> mentioned....  >> 
> >> >> Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for
> official >> >> acts we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all the
> words without >> >> anyone having to make a personal declaration of
> (un)belief.  All >> very >> civilised.
> >> 
> >> And very few people  take any notice of the state religion.
> >> 
> >> Although its high-ups imagine they do.
> >> 
> >> Every so often some Bishop or Archbishop tells a largely
> non-believing >> country to start believing in Santa Claus again. Or
> was it God?  >> Anyway, they're too stupid to understand that there's
> no substantive >> difference to most of their audience.
> >> 
> >> > What a shame that we didn't inherit more of that attitude from
> you >> > guys.
> >> 
> >> I can't imagine anybody like David Jenkins, the Bishop of Durham
> >> between 1984 and 1994, in the USA.
> >> 
> >> He was a very liberal theologian, who said things like not
> believing >> in the virgin birth because that sort of thing didn't
> happen. The >> conservatives vilified him for it, and when York
> Minster was struck by >> lightning they said that was Gawd's
> punishment for ordaining him.  >> 
> >> The story is that he was chosen because Margaret Thatcher offered
> two >> alternatives - her choice and somebody she thought wouldn't be
> >> acceptable. But her choice was even less acceptable so she was
> stuck >> with Jenkins and had to advise the Queen (the nominal  head
> of the >> CofE but who carries out the advice of her Prime Minister
> in matters >> of state) to make him Bishop.
> >> 
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jenkins_%28bishop%29
> > 
> > Makes me envious of the Brits.
> 
> Occasionally there are loonies in positions of authority.
> 
> Tony Blair has bequeathed an increase in the number of faith schools.
> 
> When he was Prime Minister, questions were asked in Parliament about a
> City Technology College teaching creationism, and which hosted an
> international creationism symposium, He sounded like an American
> conservative, mumbling something about people believing it. 
> 
> These colleges were set up under a law passed under Margaret Thatcher,
> who didn't like government oversight of anything, even something as
> vital as education. They were supposed to be funded by local industry,
> to train teenagers with the skills they needed, and not responsible to
> the Department of Education.
> 
> But in the end, most of the funding came from the government.
> 
> Apparently the school inspector who gave it a glowing report, was  the
> principal of a private Seventh Day Adventist school,
> 
> That's what you get with self-regulation.
> 
> Another loonie was James Anderton, the chief of the Greater Manchester
> Police who was a born-again who and quite vicious about it. One of his
> first actions was to charge the city centre newsstands and newsagents
> under the obscene publications act, for not putting the tabloids (with
> their page three girls) on the top shelf next to the girly mags.
> 
> He also rigidly enforced the (now largely repealed) Sunday trading
> laws, prosecuting owners and operators of do-it-your-self stores who
> did most of their business on Sundays when people needed tools and
> materials for the jobs they were doing. And shops selling un-dated
> material like books because only dated material like newspapers could
> be sold. Likewise, fresh food was allowed but not canned.
> 
> In a BBC interview, he said God had put him in that job to carry out
> God's orders. People should be in church  instead of doing gardening,
> household repairs, working on their cars, etc.

What a nutcase. So they're there too, just not as many as here.

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#2070552

From"Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c>
Date2016-03-05 23:28 +0000
Message-ID<97cfja.han.17.2@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2070496
Christopher A. Lee wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 21:08:28 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
> 
> > Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> > 
> >> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 19:14:38 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> >> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> >> > 
> >> >> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:31:39 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> >> >> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >> > Alex W. wrote:
> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> >> >> >> > Alex W. wrote:
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > > On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> >> >> >> > > > Alex W. wrote:
> >> >> >> > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > > On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> >> >> >> > > > > > Mattb. wrote:
> >> >> >> > > > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > > > > Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House
> >> >> Dispute >> > > > > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > 
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
> >> >> >> > > > > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > > > > An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the
> >> >> chance >> > > > > > > to deliver the chamber's opening prayer by
> >> >> majority >> > > > > > > Republican leaders last month got the
> >> >> opportunity >> > > > > > > Thursday, only to see leaders rule
> his >> >> prayer didn't pass >> > > > > > > muster and call up a
> Christian >> >> pastor.  >> > > > > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > > > > The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez
> included >> a >> >> > > > > > > call to work to help the state and
> its residents >> >> flourish >> > > > > > > and to "honor the
> Constitution and the >> >> secular equality >> > > > > > > it
> brings." But he didn't pray to >> any >> deity, which >> > > > > > >
> infuriated some Republicans who are >> >> Christians.  >> > > > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > > > Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader
> Steve >> >> >> > > > > > Montenegro said Mendez's decision not to
> pray to God >> >> didn't >> > > > > > meet House rules he issued
> earlier this year >> for >> the >> > > > > > opening prayer.  Speaker
> David Gowan then said >> >> "point of >> > > > > > order well taken".'
> >> >> >> > > > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > > > If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to
> The >> FSM >> >> > > > > > and that would've satisfied the "House
> rules".  >> >> >> > > > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > > Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to
> >> >> Satan....  >> > > > 
> >> >> >> > > > He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And
> Satan is >> >> >> > > > referred to in the Bible as "the god of this
> world", so >> the >> >> > > > prayer might still have satisfied the
> House rule.  >> >> >> > > > 
> >> >> >> > > 
> >> >> >> > > If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the
> pigeons, he >> >> >> > > should table a motion asking for a
> comprehensive universal >> >> >> > > definition of "god"...
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > They might've even killed him for that.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > What would have happened in the UK for a comparable
> situation?  >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> Nothing at all.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> We don't do god in public life.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the
> troops >> into >> >> Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek
> divine >> guidance -- he >> >> would not have been prime minister
> long enough >> to see us conquering >> >> Baghdad.
> >> >> 
> >> >> He said afterwards that he "consulted God" before ordering the
> >> >> invasion.
> >> >> 
> >> >> He also said at the same time that he had kept quiet about it
> >> because >> people would think he was a religious nutter.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Unlike the reaction to Bush in the USA, the British were
> horrified.  >> >> 
> >> >> >> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new
> leader of >> >> the >> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to
> meet the Queen >> >> and go >> down on one knee.  When he refused to
> do so, being a >> >> republican, it >> caused a major uproar.  His
> religion is never >> >> mentioned....  >> 
> >> >> >> Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for
> >> official >> >> acts we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all
> the >> words without >> >> anyone having to make a personal
> declaration of >> (un)belief.  All >> very >> civilised.
> >> >> 
> >> >> And very few people  take any notice of the state religion.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Although its high-ups imagine they do.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Every so often some Bishop or Archbishop tells a largely
> >> non-believing >> country to start believing in Santa Claus again.
> Or >> was it God?  >> Anyway, they're too stupid to understand that
> there's >> no substantive >> difference to most of their audience.
> >> >> 
> >> >> > What a shame that we didn't inherit more of that attitude from
> >> you >> > guys.
> >> >> 
> >> >> I can't imagine anybody like David Jenkins, the Bishop of Durham
> >> >> between 1984 and 1994, in the USA.
> >> >> 
> >> >> He was a very liberal theologian, who said things like not
> >> believing >> in the virgin birth because that sort of thing didn't
> >> happen. The >> conservatives vilified him for it, and when York
> >> Minster was struck by >> lightning they said that was Gawd's
> >> punishment for ordaining him.  >> 
> >> >> The story is that he was chosen because Margaret Thatcher
> offered >> two >> alternatives - her choice and somebody she thought
> wouldn't be >> >> acceptable. But her choice was even less acceptable
> so she was >> stuck >> with Jenkins and had to advise the Queen (the
> nominal  head >> of the >> CofE but who carries out the advice of her
> Prime Minister >> in matters >> of state) to make him Bishop.
> >> >> 
> >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jenkins_%28bishop%29
> >> > 
> >> > Makes me envious of the Brits.
> >> 
> >> Occasionally there are loonies in positions of authority.
> >> 
> >> Tony Blair has bequeathed an increase in the number of faith
> schools.  >> 
> >> When he was Prime Minister, questions were asked in Parliament
> about a >> City Technology College teaching creationism, and which
> hosted an >> international creationism symposium, He sounded like an
> American >> conservative, mumbling something about people believing
> it.  >> 
> >> These colleges were set up under a law passed under Margaret
> Thatcher, >> who didn't like government oversight of anything, even
> something as >> vital as education. They were supposed to be funded
> by local industry, >> to train teenagers with the skills they needed,
> and not responsible to >> the Department of Education.
> >> 
> >> But in the end, most of the funding came from the government.
> >> 
> >> Apparently the school inspector who gave it a glowing report, was
> the >> principal of a private Seventh Day Adventist school,
> >> 
> >> That's what you get with self-regulation.
> >> 
> >> Another loonie was James Anderton, the chief of the Greater
> Manchester >> Police who was a born-again who and quite vicious about
> it. One of his >> first actions was to charge the city centre
> newsstands and newsagents >> under the obscene publications act, for
> not putting the tabloids (with >> their page three girls) on the top
> shelf next to the girly mags.  >> 
> >> He also rigidly enforced the (now largely repealed) Sunday trading
> >> laws, prosecuting owners and operators of do-it-your-self stores
> who >> did most of their business on Sundays when people needed tools
> and >> materials for the jobs they were doing. And shops selling
> un-dated >> material like books because only dated material like
> newspapers could >> be sold. Likewise, fresh food was allowed but not
> canned.  >> 
> >> In a BBC interview, he said God had put him in that job to carry
> out >> God's orders. People should be in church  instead of doing
> gardening, >> household repairs, working on their cars, etc.
> > 
> > What a nutcase. So they're there too, just not as many as here.
> 
> Everybody openly laughs at them - it's why Blair kept quiet until it
> couldn't damage his career.
> 
> They don't like it - but what few there are have mostly learned to
> keep quiet about it.

Big difference than in the US.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2070575

From"%" <persent@gmail.com>
Date2016-03-05 16:53 -0700
Message-ID<97ch1m.poe.17.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2070552
Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 21:08:28 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
>> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
>>
>>> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 19:14:38 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
>>>> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:31:39 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
>>>>>> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House
>>>>>> Dispute >> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the
>>>>>> chance >> > > > > > > to deliver the chamber's opening prayer by
>>>>>> majority >> > > > > > > Republican leaders last month got the
>>>>>> opportunity >> > > > > > > Thursday, only to see leaders rule
>> his >> >> prayer didn't pass >> > > > > > > muster and call up a
>> Christian >> >> pastor.  >> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez
>> included >> a >> >> > > > > > > call to work to help the state and
>> its residents >> >> flourish >> > > > > > > and to "honor the
>> Constitution and the >> >> secular equality >> > > > > > > it
>> brings." But he didn't pray to >> any >> deity, which >> > > > > > >
>> infuriated some Republicans who are >> >> Christians.  >> > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader
>> Steve >> >> >> > > > > > Montenegro said Mendez's decision not to
>> pray to God >> >> didn't >> > > > > > meet House rules he issued
>> earlier this year >> for >> the >> > > > > > opening prayer.  Speaker
>> David Gowan then said >> >> "point of >> > > > > > order well
>> taken".'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to
>> The >> FSM >> >> > > > > > and that would've satisfied the "House
>> rules".  >> >> >> > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to
>>>>>> Satan....  >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And
>> Satan is >> >> >> > > > referred to in the Bible as "the god of this
>> world", so >> the >> >> > > > prayer might still have satisfied the
>> House rule.  >> >> >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the
>> pigeons, he >> >> >> > > should table a motion asking for a
>> comprehensive universal >> >> >> > > definition of "god"...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They might've even killed him for that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What would have happened in the UK for a comparable
>> situation?  >> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nothing at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We don't do god in public life.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the
>> troops >> into >> >> Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek
>> divine >> guidance -- he >> >> would not have been prime minister
>> long enough >> to see us conquering >> >> Baghdad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He said afterwards that he "consulted God" before ordering the
>>>>>> invasion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He also said at the same time that he had kept quiet about it
>>>> because >> people would think he was a religious nutter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unlike the reaction to Bush in the USA, the British were
>> horrified.  >> >>
>>>>>>>> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new
>> leader of >> >> the >> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to
>> meet the Queen >> >> and go >> down on one knee.  When he refused to
>> do so, being a >> >> republican, it >> caused a major uproar.  His
>> religion is never >> >> mentioned....  >>
>>>>>>>> Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for
>>>> official >> >> acts we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all
>> the >> words without >> >> anyone having to make a personal
>> declaration of >> (un)belief.  All >> very >> civilised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And very few people  take any notice of the state religion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although its high-ups imagine they do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every so often some Bishop or Archbishop tells a largely
>>>> non-believing >> country to start believing in Santa Claus again.
>> Or >> was it God?  >> Anyway, they're too stupid to understand that
>> there's >> no substantive >> difference to most of their audience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What a shame that we didn't inherit more of that attitude from
>>>> you >> > guys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't imagine anybody like David Jenkins, the Bishop of Durham
>>>>>> between 1984 and 1994, in the USA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He was a very liberal theologian, who said things like not
>>>> believing >> in the virgin birth because that sort of thing didn't
>>>> happen. The >> conservatives vilified him for it, and when York
>>>> Minster was struck by >> lightning they said that was Gawd's
>>>> punishment for ordaining him.  >>
>>>>>> The story is that he was chosen because Margaret Thatcher
>> offered >> two >> alternatives - her choice and somebody she thought
>> wouldn't be >> >> acceptable. But her choice was even less acceptable
>> so she was >> stuck >> with Jenkins and had to advise the Queen (the
>> nominal  head >> of the >> CofE but who carries out the advice of her
>> Prime Minister >> in matters >> of state) to make him Bishop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jenkins_%28bishop%29
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes me envious of the Brits.
>>>>
>>>> Occasionally there are loonies in positions of authority.
>>>>
>>>> Tony Blair has bequeathed an increase in the number of faith
>> schools.  >>
>>>> When he was Prime Minister, questions were asked in Parliament
>> about a >> City Technology College teaching creationism, and which
>> hosted an >> international creationism symposium, He sounded like an
>> American >> conservative, mumbling something about people believing
>> it.  >>
>>>> These colleges were set up under a law passed under Margaret
>> Thatcher, >> who didn't like government oversight of anything, even
>> something as >> vital as education. They were supposed to be funded
>> by local industry, >> to train teenagers with the skills they needed,
>> and not responsible to >> the Department of Education.
>>>>
>>>> But in the end, most of the funding came from the government.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently the school inspector who gave it a glowing report, was
>> the >> principal of a private Seventh Day Adventist school,
>>>>
>>>> That's what you get with self-regulation.
>>>>
>>>> Another loonie was James Anderton, the chief of the Greater
>> Manchester >> Police who was a born-again who and quite vicious about
>> it. One of his >> first actions was to charge the city centre
>> newsstands and newsagents >> under the obscene publications act, for
>> not putting the tabloids (with >> their page three girls) on the top
>> shelf next to the girly mags.  >>
>>>> He also rigidly enforced the (now largely repealed) Sunday trading
>>>> laws, prosecuting owners and operators of do-it-your-self stores
>> who >> did most of their business on Sundays when people needed tools
>> and >> materials for the jobs they were doing. And shops selling
>> un-dated >> material like books because only dated material like
>> newspapers could >> be sold. Likewise, fresh food was allowed but not
>> canned.  >>
>>>> In a BBC interview, he said God had put him in that job to carry
>> out >> God's orders. People should be in church  instead of doing
>> gardening, >> household repairs, working on their cars, etc.
>>>
>>> What a nutcase. So they're there too, just not as many as here.
>>
>> Everybody openly laughs at them - it's why Blair kept quiet until it
>> couldn't damage his career.
>>
>> They don't like it - but what few there are have mostly learned to
>> keep quiet about it.
>
> Big difference than in the US.

the US is a consumer nation 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2070776

From"Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c>
Date2016-03-06 12:41 +0000
Message-ID<97du3e.2ap.19.2@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2070575
% wrote:

> Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 21:08:28 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> >><sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 19:14:38 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> >>>><sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:31:39 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice
> > > > > > > Street"
> >>>>>><sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Alex W. wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Alex W. wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Alex W. wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mattb. wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arizona House
> >>>>>>Dispute >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> >
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An atheist member of the Arizona House
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > denied the
> >>>>>>chance >> > > > > > > to deliver the chamber's opening prayer by
> >>>>>>majority >> > > > > > > Republican leaders last month got the
> >>>>>>opportunity >> > > > > > > Thursday, only to see leaders rule
> >>his >> >> prayer didn't pass >> > > > > > > muster and call up a
> >>Christian >> >> pastor.  >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez
> >>included >> a >> >> > > > > > > call to work to help the state and
> >>its residents >> >> flourish >> > > > > > > and to "honor the
> >>Constitution and the >> >> secular equality >> > > > > > > it
> >>brings." But he didn't pray to >> any >> deity, which >> > > > > > >
> >>infuriated some Republicans who are >> >> Christians.  >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Accoring to the article, 'House Majority
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leader
> >>Steve >> >> >> > > > > > Montenegro said Mendez's decision not to
> >>pray to God >> >> didn't >> > > > > > meet House rules he issued
> >>earlier this year >> for >> the >> > > > > > opening prayer.
> Speaker >>David Gowan then said >> >> "point of >> > > > > > order
> well
> > > taken".'
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > prayed to
> >>The >> FSM >> >> > > > > > and that would've satisfied the "House
> >>rules".  >> >> >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his
> > > > > > > > > > > > > prayer to
> >>>>>>Satan....  >> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > He'd now be the most infamous man in America.
> > > > > > > > > > > > And
> >>Satan is >> >> >> > > > referred to in the Bible as "the god of this
> >>world", so >> the >> >> > > > prayer might still have satisfied the
> >>House rule.  >> >> >> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the
> >>pigeons, he >> >> >> > > should table a motion asking for a
> >>comprehensive universal >> >> >> > > definition of "god"...
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > They might've even killed him for that.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > What would have happened in the UK for a comparable
> >>situation?  >> >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Nothing at all.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > We don't do god in public life.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering
> > > > > > > > > the
> >>troops >> into >> >> Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek
> >>divine >> guidance -- he >> >> would not have been prime minister
> >>long enough >> to see us conquering >> >> Baghdad.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > He said afterwards that he "consulted God" before
> > > > > > > ordering the invasion.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > He also said at the same time that he had kept quiet
> > > > > > > about it
> >>>>because >> people would think he was a religious nutter.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Unlike the reaction to Bush in the USA, the British were
> >>horrified.  >> >>
> > > > > > > > > We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new
> >>leader of >> >> the >> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to
> >>meet the Queen >> >> and go >> down on one knee.  When he refused to
> >>do so, being a >> >> republican, it >> caused a major uproar.  His
> >>religion is never >> >> mentioned....  >>
> > > > > > > > > Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So
> > > > > > > > > for
> >>>>official >> >> acts we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all
> >>the >> words without >> >> anyone having to make a personal
> >>declaration of >> (un)belief.  All >> very >> civilised.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > And very few people  take any notice of the state
> > > > > > > religion.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Although its high-ups imagine they do.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Every so often some Bishop or Archbishop tells a largely
> >>>>non-believing >> country to start believing in Santa Claus again.
> >>Or >> was it God?  >> Anyway, they're too stupid to understand that
> >>there's >> no substantive >> difference to most of their audience.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > What a shame that we didn't inherit more of that
> > > > > > > > attitude from
> >>>>you >> > guys.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I can't imagine anybody like David Jenkins, the Bishop of
> > > > > > > Durham between 1984 and 1994, in the USA.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > He was a very liberal theologian, who said things like not
> >>>>believing >> in the virgin birth because that sort of thing didn't
> >>>>happen. The >> conservatives vilified him for it, and when York
> >>>>Minster was struck by >> lightning they said that was Gawd's
> > > > > punishment for ordaining him.  >>
> > > > > > > The story is that he was chosen because Margaret Thatcher
> >>offered >> two >> alternatives - her choice and somebody she thought
> >>wouldn't be >> >> acceptable. But her choice was even less
> acceptable >>so she was >> stuck >> with Jenkins and had to advise
> the Queen (the >>nominal  head >> of the >> CofE but who carries out
> the advice of her >>Prime Minister >> in matters >> of state) to make
> him Bishop.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jenkins_%28bishop%29
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Makes me envious of the Brits.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Occasionally there are loonies in positions of authority.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Tony Blair has bequeathed an increase in the number of faith
> > > schools.  >>
> > > > > When he was Prime Minister, questions were asked in Parliament
> >>about a >> City Technology College teaching creationism, and which
> >>hosted an >> international creationism symposium, He sounded like an
> >>American >> conservative, mumbling something about people believing
> > > it.  >>
> > > > > These colleges were set up under a law passed under Margaret
> >>Thatcher, >> who didn't like government oversight of anything, even
> >>something as >> vital as education. They were supposed to be funded
> >>by local industry, >> to train teenagers with the skills they
> needed, >>and not responsible to >> the Department of Education.
> > > > > 
> > > > > But in the end, most of the funding came from the government.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Apparently the school inspector who gave it a glowing report,
> > > > > was
> >>the >> principal of a private Seventh Day Adventist school,
> > > > > 
> > > > > That's what you get with self-regulation.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Another loonie was James Anderton, the chief of the Greater
> >>Manchester >> Police who was a born-again who and quite vicious
> about >>it. One of his >> first actions was to charge the city centre
> >>newsstands and newsagents >> under the obscene publications act, for
> >>not putting the tabloids (with >> their page three girls) on the top
> > > shelf next to the girly mags.  >>
> > > > > He also rigidly enforced the (now largely repealed) Sunday
> > > > > trading laws, prosecuting owners and operators of
> > > > > do-it-your-self stores
> >>who >> did most of their business on Sundays when people needed
> tools >>and >> materials for the jobs they were doing. And shops
> selling >>un-dated >> material like books because only dated material
> like >>newspapers could >> be sold. Likewise, fresh food was allowed
> but not
> > > canned.  >>
> > > > > In a BBC interview, he said God had put him in that job to
> > > > > carry
> >>out >> God's orders. People should be in church  instead of doing
> >>gardening, >> household repairs, working on their cars, etc.
> > > > 
> > > > What a nutcase. So they're there too, just not as many as here.
> > > 
> > > Everybody openly laughs at them - it's why Blair kept quiet until
> > > it couldn't damage his career.
> > > 
> > > They don't like it - but what few there are have mostly learned to
> > > keep quiet about it.
> > 
> > Big difference than in the US.
> 
> the US is a consumer nation

How is Canada different?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2070562

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-03-05 23:46 +0000
Message-ID<dk19f1F91m6U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2070431
On 05/03/2016 20:19, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 19:14:38 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
>
>> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>


>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jenkins_%28bishop%29
>>
>> Makes me envious of the Brits.
>
> Occasionally there are loonies in positions of authority.
>
> Tony Blair has bequeathed an increase in the number of faith schools.

Which, to be fair, is not an altogether unreasonable policy, judging by 
the relative success of mainstream "religion lite" faith schools such as 
CofE or Catholic schools.  They consistently rank above comparable 
secular schools in the league tables.


>
> Another loonie was James Anderton, the chief of the Greater Manchester
> Police who was a born-again who and quite vicious about it. One of his
> first actions was to charge the city centre newsstands and newsagents
> under the obscene publications act, for not putting the tabloids (with
> their page three girls) on the top shelf next to the girly mags.
>
> He also rigidly enforced the (now largely repealed) Sunday trading
> laws, prosecuting owners and operators of do-it-your-self stores who
> did most of their business on Sundays when people needed tools and
> materials for the jobs they were doing. And shops selling un-dated
> material like books because only dated material like newspapers could
> be sold. Likewise, fresh food was allowed but not canned.

To be honest, I am not unhappy about Sunday trading bans.  We are now 
under such relentless pressure to consume consume consume that a day of 
respite is not a bad thing, it seems to me.  I don't care which day of 
the week it is, but I think a day without running down to the shops to 
buy more stuff we don't need on credit we cannot afford when we can 
spend time on ourselves and our families has value.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2070576

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-03-05 23:53 +0000
Message-ID<dk19r5F94l2U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2070341
On 05/03/2016 16:50, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:31:39 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
>
>> Alex W. wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>>> Mattb. wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance
>>>>>>>>> to deliver the chamber's opening prayer by majority
>>>>>>>>> Republican leaders last month got the opportunity
>>>>>>>>> Thursday, only to see leaders rule his prayer didn't pass
>>>>>>>>> muster and call up a Christian pastor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a
>>>>>>>>> call to work to help the state and its residents flourish
>>>>>>>>> and to "honor the Constitution and the secular equality
>>>>>>>>> it brings." But he didn't pray to any deity, which
>>>>>>>>> infuriated some Republicans who are Christians.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve
>>>>>>>> Montenegro said Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't
>>>>>>>> meet House rules he issued earlier this year for the
>>>>>>>> opening prayer.  Speaker David Gowan then said "point of
>>>>>>>> order well taken".'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM
>>>>>>>> and that would've satisfied the "House rules".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to Satan....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is
>>>>>> referred to in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the
>>>>>> prayer might still have satisfied the House rule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he
>>>>> should table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal
>>>>> definition of "god"...
>>>>
>>>> They might've even killed him for that.
>>>>
>>>> What would have happened in the UK for a comparable situation?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing at all.
>>>
>>> We don't do god in public life.
>>>
>>> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the troops into
>>> Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine guidance -- he
>>> would not have been prime minister long enough to see us conquering
>>> Baghdad.
>
> He said afterwards that he "consulted God" before ordering the
> invasion.

Campbell must have hit the roof when he heard about that...


>
> He also said at the same time that he had kept quiet about it because
> people would think he was a religious nutter.

He was right.


>
> Unlike the reaction to Bush in the USA, the British were horrified.
>
>>> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new leader of the
>>> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to meet the Queen and go
>>> down on one knee.  When he refused to do so, being a republican, it
>>> caused a major uproar.  His religion is never mentioned....
>>>
>>> Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for official
>>> acts we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all the words without
>>> anyone having to make a personal declaration of (un)belief.  All very
>>> civilised.
>
> And very few people  take any notice of the state religion.

Although we do like the pomp and circumstance, I think...


>
> Although its high-ups imagine they do.

Part of their job description?


>
> Every so often some Bishop or Archbishop tells a largely non-believing
> country to start believing in Santa Claus again. Or was it God?
> Anyway, they're too stupid to understand that there's no substantive
> difference to most of their audience.

Again, I think their job requires them to say stuff like that.  It what 
pays their salaries.

They also do speak up about moral issues in more general tones, which I 
may not agree with but cannot fault them for.  There is a place in 
public discourse for a voice that is not beholden to a party ideology or 
the official corporate line.


>
>> What a shame that we didn't inherit more of that attitude from you
>> guys.
>
> I can't imagine anybody like David Jenkins, the Bishop of Durham
> between 1984 and 1994, in the USA.
>
> He was a very liberal theologian, who said things like not believing
> in the virgin birth because that sort of thing didn't happen. The
> conservatives vilified him for it, and when York Minster was struck by
> lightning they said that was Gawd's punishment for ordaining him.

God doesn't believe in lightning conductors, it seems...


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#2070563

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-03-05 23:46 +0000
Message-ID<nbfr5c$12ne$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2070327
On Sat, 05 Mar 2016 14:04:11 +0000, Alex W. wrote:

> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>> Alex W. wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>> Mattb. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-
off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance to
>>>>>>> deliver the chamber's opening prayer by majority Republican
>>>>>>> leaders last month got the opportunity Thursday, only to see
>>>>>>> leaders rule his prayer didn't pass muster and call up a Christian
>>>>>>> pastor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a call to work
>>>>>>> to help the state and its residents flourish and to "honor the
>>>>>>> Constitution and the secular equality it brings." But he didn't
>>>>>>> pray to any deity, which infuriated some Republicans who are
>>>>>>> Christians.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve Montenegro
>>>>>> said Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't meet House rules
>>>>>> he issued earlier this year for the opening prayer. Speaker David
>>>>>> Gowan then said "point of order well taken".'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM and that
>>>>>> would've satisfied the "House rules".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to Satan....
>>>>
>>>> He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is referred
>>>> to in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the prayer might still
>>>> have satisfied the House rule.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he should
>>> table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal definition of
>>> "god"...
>>
>> They might've even killed him for that.
>>
>> What would have happened in the UK for a comparable situation?
>>
> Nothing at all.
> 
> We don't do god in public life.
> 
> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the troops into Iraq
> -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine guidance -- he would not
> have been prime minister long enough to see us conquering Baghdad.

TB may well have been -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine 
guidance --, he is a committed Christian, but he didn't announce it to the 
world for all to see his stupidity. _That_ is the difference between the 
UK and the US.

> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new leader of the
> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to meet the Queen and go down
> on one knee.  When he refused to do so, being a republican, it caused a
> major uproar.  His religion is never mentioned....

I suspect that he's either an atheist or a very religious Christian, like 
TB.

> Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for official acts
> we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all the words without anyone
> having to make a personal declaration of (un)belief. All very civilised.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

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#2070583

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-03-06 00:07 +0000
Message-ID<dk1amdF97n5U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2070563
On 05/03/2016 23:46, Smiler wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Mar 2016 14:04:11 +0000, Alex W. wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>> Mattb. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-
> off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance to
>>>>>>>> deliver the chamber's opening prayer by majority Republican
>>>>>>>> leaders last month got the opportunity Thursday, only to see
>>>>>>>> leaders rule his prayer didn't pass muster and call up a Christian
>>>>>>>> pastor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a call to work
>>>>>>>> to help the state and its residents flourish and to "honor the
>>>>>>>> Constitution and the secular equality it brings." But he didn't
>>>>>>>> pray to any deity, which infuriated some Republicans who are
>>>>>>>> Christians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve Montenegro
>>>>>>> said Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't meet House rules
>>>>>>> he issued earlier this year for the opening prayer. Speaker David
>>>>>>> Gowan then said "point of order well taken".'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM and that
>>>>>>> would've satisfied the "House rules".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to Satan....
>>>>>
>>>>> He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is referred
>>>>> to in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the prayer might still
>>>>> have satisfied the House rule.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he should
>>>> table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal definition of
>>>> "god"...
>>>
>>> They might've even killed him for that.
>>>
>>> What would have happened in the UK for a comparable situation?
>>>
>> Nothing at all.
>>
>> We don't do god in public life.
>>
>> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the troops into Iraq
>> -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine guidance -- he would not
>> have been prime minister long enough to see us conquering Baghdad.
>
> TB may well have been -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine
> guidance --, he is a committed Christian, but he didn't announce it to the
> world for all to see his stupidity. _That_ is the difference between the
> UK and the US.
>
>> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new leader of the
>> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to meet the Queen and go down
>> on one knee.  When he refused to do so, being a republican, it caused a
>> major uproar.  His religion is never mentioned....
>
> I suspect that he's either an atheist or a very religious Christian, like
> TB.

My reading is that he too caught up in his political ideology.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2070903

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-03-06 19:56 +0000
Message-ID<nbi21t$165a$5@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2070583
On Sun, 06 Mar 2016 00:07:40 +0000, Alex W. wrote:

> On 05/03/2016 23:46, Smiler wrote:
>> On Sat, 05 Mar 2016 14:04:11 +0000, Alex W. wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>>> Mattb. wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-
sets-
>> off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the chance to
>>>>>>>>> deliver the chamber's opening prayer by majority Republican
>>>>>>>>> leaders last month got the opportunity Thursday, only to see
>>>>>>>>> leaders rule his prayer didn't pass muster and call up a
>>>>>>>>> Christian pastor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez included a call to
>>>>>>>>> work to help the state and its residents flourish and to "honor
>>>>>>>>> the Constitution and the secular equality it brings." But he
>>>>>>>>> didn't pray to any deity, which infuriated some Republicans who
>>>>>>>>> are Christians.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader Steve Montenegro
>>>>>>>> said Mendez's decision not to pray to God didn't meet House rules
>>>>>>>> he issued earlier this year for the opening prayer. Speaker David
>>>>>>>> Gowan then said "point of order well taken".'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to The FSM and
>>>>>>>> that would've satisfied the "House rules".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to Satan....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And Satan is referred
>>>>>> to in the Bible as "the god of this world", so the prayer might
>>>>>> still have satisfied the House rule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the pigeons, he should
>>>>> table a motion asking for a comprehensive universal definition of
>>>>> "god"...
>>>>
>>>> They might've even killed him for that.
>>>>
>>>> What would have happened in the UK for a comparable situation?
>>>>
>>> Nothing at all.
>>>
>>> We don't do god in public life.
>>>
>>> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the troops into
>>> Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine guidance -- he
>>> would not have been prime minister long enough to see us conquering
>>> Baghdad.
>>
>> TB may well have been -- praying and reading the bible to seek divine
>> guidance --, he is a committed Christian, but he didn't announce it to
>> the world for all to see his stupidity. _That_ is the difference
>> between the UK and the US.
>>
>>> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new leader of the
>>> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to meet the Queen and go
>>> down on one knee.  When he refused to do so, being a republican, it
>>> caused a major uproar.  His religion is never mentioned....
>>
>> I suspect that he's either an atheist or a very religious Christian,
>> like TB.
> 
> My reading is that he too caught up in his political ideology.

An apotheist?

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

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