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Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute

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Ted&Alice Street wrote:
> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 21:08:28 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
>> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
>>
>>> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 19:14:38 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
>>>> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:31:39 +0000 (UTC), "Ted&Alice Street"
>>>>>> <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 05/03/2016 13:47, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 05/03/2016 12:42, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/03/2016 23:04, Ted&Alice Street wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House
>>>>>> Dispute >> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/atheist-lawmakers-prayer-sets-off-arizona-house-dispute-37381282
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An atheist member of the Arizona House denied the
>>>>>> chance >> > > > > > > to deliver the chamber's opening prayer by
>>>>>> majority >> > > > > > > Republican leaders last month got the
>>>>>> opportunity >> > > > > > > Thursday, only to see leaders rule
>> his >> >> prayer didn't pass >> > > > > > > muster and call up a
>> Christian >> >> pastor.  >> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The opening prayer by Democrat Juan Mendez
>> included >> a >> >> > > > > > > call to work to help the state and
>> its residents >> >> flourish >> > > > > > > and to "honor the
>> Constitution and the >> >> secular equality >> > > > > > > it
>> brings." But he didn't pray to >> any >> deity, which >> > > > > > >
>> infuriated some Republicans who are >> >> Christians.  >> > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accoring to the article, 'House Majority Leader
>> Steve >> >> >> > > > > > Montenegro said Mendez's decision not to
>> pray to God >> >> didn't >> > > > > > meet House rules he issued
>> earlier this year >> for >> the >> > > > > > opening prayer.  Speaker
>> David Gowan then said >> >> "point of >> > > > > > order well
>> taken".'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If Mendez were Pastararian, he could've prayed to
>> The >> FSM >> >> > > > > > and that would've satisfied the "House
>> rules".  >> >> >> > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Imagine the uproar if he had addressed his prayer to
>>>>>> Satan....  >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> He'd now be the most infamous man in America. And
>> Satan is >> >> >> > > > referred to in the Bible as "the god of this
>> world", so >> the >> >> > > > prayer might still have satisfied the
>> House rule.  >> >> >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If he wanted to toss a hyperactive cat among the
>> pigeons, he >> >> >> > > should table a motion asking for a
>> comprehensive universal >> >> >> > > definition of "god"...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They might've even killed him for that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What would have happened in the UK for a comparable
>> situation?  >> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nothing at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We don't do god in public life.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If Tony Blair had done what GWB did before ordering the
>> troops >> into >> >> Iraq -- praying and reading the bible to seek
>> divine >> guidance -- he >> >> would not have been prime minister
>> long enough >> to see us conquering >> >> Baghdad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He said afterwards that he "consulted God" before ordering the
>>>>>> invasion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He also said at the same time that he had kept quiet about it
>>>> because >> people would think he was a religious nutter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unlike the reaction to Bush in the USA, the British were
>> horrified.  >> >>
>>>>>>>> We get much more exercised about bad manners.  The new
>> leader of >> >> the >> Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, was supposed to
>> meet the Queen >> >> and go >> down on one knee.  When he refused to
>> do so, being a >> >> republican, it >> caused a major uproar.  His
>> religion is never >> >> mentioned....  >>
>>>>>>>> Plus, we have the advantage of a state religion.  So for
>>>> official >> >> acts we wheel out a vicar or bishop to mumble all
>> the >> words without >> >> anyone having to make a personal
>> declaration of >> (un)belief.  All >> very >> civilised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And very few people  take any notice of the state religion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although its high-ups imagine they do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every so often some Bishop or Archbishop tells a largely
>>>> non-believing >> country to start believing in Santa Claus again.
>> Or >> was it God?  >> Anyway, they're too stupid to understand that
>> there's >> no substantive >> difference to most of their audience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What a shame that we didn't inherit more of that attitude from
>>>> you >> > guys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't imagine anybody like David Jenkins, the Bishop of Durham
>>>>>> between 1984 and 1994, in the USA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He was a very liberal theologian, who said things like not
>>>> believing >> in the virgin birth because that sort of thing didn't
>>>> happen. The >> conservatives vilified him for it, and when York
>>>> Minster was struck by >> lightning they said that was Gawd's
>>>> punishment for ordaining him.  >>
>>>>>> The story is that he was chosen because Margaret Thatcher
>> offered >> two >> alternatives - her choice and somebody she thought
>> wouldn't be >> >> acceptable. But her choice was even less acceptable
>> so she was >> stuck >> with Jenkins and had to advise the Queen (the
>> nominal  head >> of the >> CofE but who carries out the advice of her
>> Prime Minister >> in matters >> of state) to make him Bishop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jenkins_%28bishop%29
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes me envious of the Brits.
>>>>
>>>> Occasionally there are loonies in positions of authority.
>>>>
>>>> Tony Blair has bequeathed an increase in the number of faith
>> schools.  >>
>>>> When he was Prime Minister, questions were asked in Parliament
>> about a >> City Technology College teaching creationism, and which
>> hosted an >> international creationism symposium, He sounded like an
>> American >> conservative, mumbling something about people believing
>> it.  >>
>>>> These colleges were set up under a law passed under Margaret
>> Thatcher, >> who didn't like government oversight of anything, even
>> something as >> vital as education. They were supposed to be funded
>> by local industry, >> to train teenagers with the skills they needed,
>> and not responsible to >> the Department of Education.
>>>>
>>>> But in the end, most of the funding came from the government.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently the school inspector who gave it a glowing report, was
>> the >> principal of a private Seventh Day Adventist school,
>>>>
>>>> That's what you get with self-regulation.
>>>>
>>>> Another loonie was James Anderton, the chief of the Greater
>> Manchester >> Police who was a born-again who and quite vicious about
>> it. One of his >> first actions was to charge the city centre
>> newsstands and newsagents >> under the obscene publications act, for
>> not putting the tabloids (with >> their page three girls) on the top
>> shelf next to the girly mags.  >>
>>>> He also rigidly enforced the (now largely repealed) Sunday trading
>>>> laws, prosecuting owners and operators of do-it-your-self stores
>> who >> did most of their business on Sundays when people needed tools
>> and >> materials for the jobs they were doing. And shops selling
>> un-dated >> material like books because only dated material like
>> newspapers could >> be sold. Likewise, fresh food was allowed but not
>> canned.  >>
>>>> In a BBC interview, he said God had put him in that job to carry
>> out >> God's orders. People should be in church  instead of doing
>> gardening, >> household repairs, working on their cars, etc.
>>>
>>> What a nutcase. So they're there too, just not as many as here.
>>
>> Everybody openly laughs at them - it's why Blair kept quiet until it
>> couldn't damage his career.
>>
>> They don't like it - but what few there are have mostly learned to
>> keep quiet about it.
>
> Big difference than in the US.

the US is a consumer nation 

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Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-05 09:08 +0000
  Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 12:42 +0000
    Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-05 13:03 +0000
      Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 13:47 +0000
        Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-05 14:04 +0000
          Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 14:31 +0000
            Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 19:14 +0000
              Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 12:18 -0700
                Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 19:28 +0000
              Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 21:08 +0000
                Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 23:28 +0000
                Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 16:53 -0700
                Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-06 12:41 +0000
              Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-05 23:46 +0000
            Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-05 23:53 +0000
          Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-03-05 23:46 +0000
            Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-06 00:07 +0000
              Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-03-06 19:56 +0000
        Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute "Ted&Alice Street" <sam.tedesco@notgmail.c> - 2016-03-05 19:15 +0000
      Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute Don Kresch <no@spam.org> - 2016-03-06 15:41 -0600
  Re: Atheist Lawmaker's Prayer Sets off Arizona House Dispute MattB <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 10:05 -0800

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