Re: Holding down a key does not show repeating inputted characters?

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system
Subject	Re: Holding down a key does not show repeating inputted characters?
Date	2015-10-09 13:49 +1300
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<091020151349295021%YourName@YourISP.com> (permalink)
References	(12 earlier) <081020151816395444%YourName@YourISP.com> <d7mfa2F31ejU1@mid.individual.net> <D23BDF97.5F7C5%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <091020150906060868%YourName@YourISP.com> <D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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In article <D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> On 10/8/15, 1:06 PM, in article 091020150906060868%YourName@YourISP.com,
> "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> 
> ...
> >>>> But it's not intuitive. No novice user is ever going to try pressing
> >>>> the screen or trackpad harder.
> >>> 
> >>> Bull. They have only have to see it once to get it. It's not a complex
> >>> concept at all.
> >> 
> >> I worked in computer labs when mice first started becoming popular. Macs
> >> had
> >> them and our UNIX stations had them - even light-based ones, which confused
> >> people so I put up a sign saying "UNIX mice have no balls". My boss had me
> >> that that down for some reason. :)
> >> 
> >> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
> >> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this thing
> >> on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on a screen
> >> move?
> > 
> > It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
> > without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
> > to get efficient at it.
> 
> The idea of the mouse moving the mouse pointer is fairly intuitive... people
> figure that out. But when to click vs. double-click vs. right-click. I have
> seen people be quite confused by that.
> 
> >> And why would I click its left button to do one thing and its right
> >> button to do another?
> > 
> > Which is exactly why the Mac only had (and only needed) one button mice
> > for years ... they still only need one button.
> 
> Sure. But contextual menus are good.... and the middle button ALSO works to
> do still more. Then you have option clicking. Lots of different things which
> are not intuitive.

Useful to some people, but they aren't necessary to use the computer.

Every Mac I set-up for novice users there's a series of things I change
- one of which is to turn off the right-click button. They won't use
its or need it, and it simply confuses people (as you said).




> >> None of that is "intuitive" until you get used to a computer.
> >> 
> >> I suspect 3D Touch / Force Touch is much the same.
> > 
> > Pushing something harder to make it do something different is *not* in
> > any remote sense intuitive.
> 
> When I draw with pencil or charcoal if I push harder I get a different
> result. 

You're not drawing with a pencil (at least not until Apple releases the
iPad Pro, and that has a pressure sensitive Pencil stylus anyway). I'm
talking about using standard computer or electronic interfaces.



> And as I said above, the idea on a computer UI is not to make it just like
> something else. In the physical world I have never opened a folder to get to
> a window, nor used a menu of any sort to rename a file. I have never grabbed
> a mouse to move other than the mouse.

The idea of a user interface is to make it as easy and as intuitive to
use as possible ... pressing hard is NOT intuitive to anyone.



> > It's highly counter-intuitive (as are most of the silly multi-finger
> > gestures) - you don't push light switches harder, pushing hard on glass
> > is dangerous, etc. 
> 
> What dangers do you think people will experience from getting to a
> contextual menu or getting a quick look at content?

Dangerous in the sense of breaking the glass ... try pushing "harder"
on your window and see what happens. Trying pushing harder on your
light switch or door handle and you'll likely break it (I know, I've
broken my car's door handle and it'll cost about $300 to repair it!!).



> > That's why people don't know about them and have to be told. Intuitive
> > means you don't have to be told, you work it out naturally.
> 
> You did not learn to type naturally. Should computers not have keyboards?

Typing is intuitive as well ... you press a key with an "a" on it and
you get an "a" on the screen (or piece of paper in terms of ye olde
typewriter).

Yes, a stylus is more intuitive (hence Apple's Newton years ago), but
it's more cumbersome as a computer input device, especially with some
people's scrawly handwriting. Speech is even more intuitive, hence
Apple's Siri, but again is cumbersome as a computer interface due to
the variety of languages, accents, etc.

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