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Re: Holding down a key does not show repeating inputted characters?

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system
Subject	Re: Holding down a key does not show repeating inputted characters?
Date	2015-10-08 17:56 -0700
Message-ID	<D23C5ED5.5F97B%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> (permalink)
References	(13 earlier) <d7mfa2F31ejU1@mid.individual.net> <D23BDF97.5F7C5%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <091020150906060868%YourName@YourISP.com> <D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <091020151349295021%YourName@YourISP.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 10/8/15, 5:49 PM, in article 091020151349295021%YourName@YourISP.com,
"Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

... 
>>> Which is exactly why the Mac only had (and only needed) one button mice
>>> for years ... they still only need one button.
>> 
>> Sure. But contextual menus are good.... and the middle button ALSO works to
>> do still more. Then you have option clicking. Lots of different things which
>> are not intuitive.
> 
> Useful to some people, but they aren't necessary to use the computer.

Is there anything where they are required on the new UIs? And there are some
features which are available on by right-clicking (even if I do not like
this).

> Every Mac I set-up for novice users there's a series of things I change
> - one of which is to turn off the right-click button. They won't use
> its or need it, and it simply confuses people (as you said).

I teach them to use it. Even seniors. The only exception I can think of was
a woman with horrible arthritis who had suffered a stroke. She could not
right click. She also could not use a mouse, but she could use a track ball.
I got her one of those then set all buttons to be "left click".
 
>>>> None of that is "intuitive" until you get used to a computer.
>>>> 
>>>> I suspect 3D Touch / Force Touch is much the same.
>>> 
>>> Pushing something harder to make it do something different is *not* in
>>> any remote sense intuitive.
>> 
>> When I draw with pencil or charcoal if I push harder I get a different
>> result. 
> 
> You're not drawing with a pencil (at least not until Apple releases the
> iPad Pro, and that has a pressure sensitive Pencil stylus anyway). I'm
> talking about using standard computer or electronic interfaces.

I mean a physical pencil.

>> And as I said above, the idea on a computer UI is not to make it just like
>> something else. In the physical world I have never opened a folder to get to
>> a window, nor used a menu of any sort to rename a file. I have never grabbed
>> a mouse to move other than the mouse.
> 
> The idea of a user interface is to make it as easy and as intuitive to
> use as possible ... pressing hard is NOT intuitive to anyone.

What makes you think this? You keep saying it over and over and offering no
evidence. It is new and will take some getting used to, as the mouse did
when it was new. But that does not make it bad or hard to use.

Also does not mean you are right... just that you have offered no support.

>>> It's highly counter-intuitive (as are most of the silly multi-finger
>>> gestures) - you don't push light switches harder, pushing hard on glass
>>> is dangerous, etc.
>> 
>> What dangers do you think people will experience from getting to a
>> contextual menu or getting a quick look at content?
> 
> Dangerous in the sense of breaking the glass ... try pushing "harder"
> on your window and see what happens. Trying pushing harder on your
> light switch or door handle and you'll likely break it (I know, I've
> broken my car's door handle and it'll cost about $300 to repair it!!).

How many reports of broken devices from this do you expect to show up in the
news over the next year?

My guess: zero. Maybe one. And that person will by lying. :)

I have seen videos where they test bending and press on the phone HARD. The
glass does not break that easily.

>>> That's why people don't know about them and have to be told. Intuitive
>>> means you don't have to be told, you work it out naturally.
>> 
>> You did not learn to type naturally. Should computers not have keyboards?
> 
> Typing is intuitive as well ... you press a key with an "a" on it and
> you get an "a" on the screen (or piece of paper in terms of ye olde
> typewriter).

Ok, so you just hunt and peck. I am fine with that. What about capitals? And
option and command keys?

> Yes, a stylus is more intuitive (hence Apple's Newton years ago), but
> it's more cumbersome as a computer input device, especially with some
> people's scrawly handwriting. Speech is even more intuitive, hence
> Apple's Siri, but again is cumbersome as a computer interface due to
> the variety of languages, accents, etc.



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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