Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.lang.forth > #18608

Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet?

From rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet?
Date 2013-01-08 21:23 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <kcks45$8pn$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <kb8tpk$jve$1@dont-email.me> <37b3afcf-d43e-4c17-8aea-ba54721988e7@googlegroups.com> <1389276.FBtVrFyMfn@sunwukong.fritz.box> <dde77ffc-6a37-4d2f-9217-38cbe48e954a@googlegroups.com> <1481013.D7WRl7Bud2@sunwukong.fritz.box>

Show all headers | View raw


On 1/4/2013 9:17 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>
>> But the water draw on the
>> reservoir is rather constant.  Same with electricity.
>
> Please, go look at the graph below.  It is *not* that way.  And it's not
> that way for water, either.  At night, people sleep instead of flushing
> the toilet.

Again, I am offline.  I did look at one of the graphs, but it is 
documented in German and I can't see exactly what the conditions are.  I 
doubt the demand curve is the same during all seasons.  My utility bill 
ranges between $30 in the spring or fall and $170 this past month.  And 
yes, most heat here is from heat pumps.  It is heating with oil that is 
considered to be "insane".


>> The only fluctuation is the daily cycle which for the periods of peak
>> usage will be dominated by heating.
>
> Forget about heating.  It is insane to heat with electricity, as said,
> unless you use a highly efficient heat pump.

What do you heat with?  If you heat with CO2 emitting methods, there is 
little reason to push PV for the remaining energy demand which is 
minimal in comparison.  BTW, even if you use a "highly efficient" heat 
pump, when the temps get too low for the heat pump to work well, they 
kick in auxiliary heat which is electric coil.  That's when I get $150+ 
a month electric bills.


>> I am sure there are ups and downs
>> during the day, I think the peak time is when people come home and
>> cook dinner, but I am sure the demand for power isn't five times what
>> it is when they are all sleeping.
>
> In Germany it is actually 6 times.  Please, I gave a citation, you
> better believe me when you can't check it yourself.

I think it is the opposite.  I need to check for myself.


>>> http://wissen.dradio.de/energiewirtschaft-strom-sparen-mit-smart-
>>> grids.36.de.html?dram:article_id=4926
>>
>> I'm offline now so I can't view the article.  But the good news is
>> that I may be able to get DSL here and won't have to use coffee-net
>> for wi-fi anymore... we'll see what the details are when I actually
>> try to sign up.
>
> You are off-line?

Yes, I often use a newsreader that downloads messages and I read and 
respond to them when I get time.  In this house I currently have no 
option for Internet other than satellite which I have been warned off of 
by a number of folks.  Even then I contacted them once and was told a 
lot about how well it worked and how they bill, etc.  I asked them to 
mail me the info and I would decide later and they said they can't mail 
me anything.  That is the talk of a scam artist, so no satellite Internet.


>> What do they use to heat German houses?
>
> Primary energy like gas or oil.  A good heat pump would be more
> efficient, but the downside is that you need non-freezing air for the
> cold side, and therefore, in general, it won't work well during German
> winter.  Just like you explained it for your location: In theory, the
> heat pump is good, but in practise, you need some way to pre-heat the
> outside air above freezing (e.g. a heat exchange pipe through your
> garden).

Ok, I understand if it is too cold for heat pumps to work well.  But 
heating/cooling is the single largest use of energy.  If you are going 
to burn oil or gas to heat, what is the point?  How many kWh/BTUs do you 
use for heating?  How much carbon is produced?  Do you see my point?


>> In the US most coal transport is by rail.
>
> Should be quite cheap, too.  Rail is a bit more expensive than ships.

I'm not sure what you mean about ships.  How do you get the coal to and 
from the ships?  On our east coast the coal is around 100 miles from 
most users, not a big deal (about the same distance as sea ports).  Out 
west the coal is in places with less access which I believe does run the 
cost up a bit.


> Yes.  CO2-producers get big subsidies.  The main problem with global
> warming is that there are several trip points at which you reach a point
> of no return; last year, we reached one of them: The inland ice in
> Greenland started to melt.  Once it does so, it decreases the albedo of
> the glacier, and therefore, it will continue to melt next year.  We
> don't know how fast, but it won't stop until it all melted, and the sea
> level then is 8m above where it is now.

I don't think we know this is a trip point.  I don't doubt that they 
exist and we may be pushing some or even have crossed a few.  But we 
don't really understand the details enough to say with any certainty.


>> I'm still not clear on how the PV price is guaranteed in the sense of
>> who pays.  Are the unclean power sources taxed to pay for the green
>> power?
>
> No, the power sinks are taxed; the effect is about the same.

I don't know what that means, "the power sinks".  It should be the dirty 
energy producers, add taxes proportional to the uncounted costs of 
pollution.


>> I don't think your 4 year requirement is accurate.  It doesn't matter
>> if
>> a new PV plant can make more money than an older PV plant.  As long as
>> the price of electricity doesn't drop the old PV plant will make the
>> money it was designed to make.  So 20 year investments can be made.
>> In fact, if current technology were viable, plants would be built and
>> run for the next 20 years as the price of electricity increased due to
>> more
>> stringent controls on dirty energy.  Newer PV plants would also be
>> built which could yield higher returns, but unless they bring down the
>> cost of electricity, they won't make the older PV plants unprofitable.
>
> That's true, if the transition from dirty to green energy is slow.  As
> the Nevada example I gave, the company there got a 25 years contract
> with fixed prices, so when you can get that sort of contract, the 4 year
> requirement is not accurate.
>
> However, if it really *is* viable, and China (or whoever makes the
> panels) does produce them in big quantities, then yes, you have to
> compete with next year's PV plant, and the price for energy in total
> will drop (including conventional energy - the drop of demand will
> result in a price drop there, too).

I think that is the fallacy in your argument, that lower cost plants 
coming online will drive down the cost of energy.  I think any new 
plants will have little or no impact on the price of energy, they will 
just make more profit.  Consider that it is likely the same people 
buying the lower cost panels as own the existing plants.  I don't expect 
the price of electricity to come down anytime in my lifetime.  I'm 
surprised that it has remained so constant in fact, I don't think it is 
significantly more expensive than when I was a kid.


>> Interesting conversation... A friend gave me a book to read, "Field
>> Notes from a Catastrophe" by Elizabeth Kolbert.  It is about the CO2
>> disaster.  I expect to read the recommended chapter 7 tonight and
>> we'll see if it impacts our discussion here.
>
> Yeah, read it, it got quite some good reviews.
>
> However, I would be much more worried about an ice age than about global
> warming.  In the long term view, the earth was warmer than today, see
> this:
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Five_Myr_Climate_Change.png
>
> And the climate used to be more stable than before the ice age.
>

I had the impression that the two go in hand as the climate oscillates. 
  That is the concern, we are triggering a climatic oscillation earlier 
than it would have happened otherwise and possibly much more severe.  We 
have no way of actually knowing what the implication will be.

I read the chapter about the CO2 wedges.  The premise is that left alone 
from 2004 to 2054 the world CO2 production will rise from 7 gtons/yr to 
14 gtons/yr.  In a paper in Science, Socolow and Pacala constructed 7 
wedges for the increase in emissions, each one reaching 1 gton/yr by 
2054.  Then they examined a number of possible solutions and what it 
would take for each one to account for removing one "wedge" of carbon 
from our emissions.  For PV it will take an area the size of Connecticut 
(one of our tiniest states), 5 million acres or 20,234 sq km.  I don't 
see a problem with that.  I expect doing this world wide by 2054 will 
happen, no?  But that leaves six more wedges to account for and even 
that only leaves the carbon emissions level, not reduced.

Wind power will require 30 million acres, about the size of New York 
state or 121,405 sq km.  I don't know how realistic that is, but I can't 
see why the US couldn't do maybe 15% of that.  We have a vast Great 
Plains which has lots of wind.  Could Europe do another 30%?  I know 
wind energy is much more used there than here.  I think this works 
better in coastal areas and even off shore.  There was talk of 
installing some wind mills here off the shore of Ocean City, a popular 
beach resort area.  There was a lot of opposition even though they would 
be some 2 miles out and wouldn't be any more ugly than the huge 
freighters passing by.  Maybe next year.

Rick

Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-17 02:26 -0800
  Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-12-17 08:37 -0800
    Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:27 -0800
      Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-12-19 21:27 -1000
  Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Spam@ControlQ.com - 2012-12-17 12:20 -0500
    Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:27 -0800
  Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Frank Thomason <Frank@Thomason.com> - 2012-12-17 13:34 -0500
    Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:28 -0800
      Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Frank Thomason <Frank@Thomason.com> - 2012-12-20 08:54 -0500
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 20:03 -0800
  Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-17 18:52 -0500
    Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:26 -0800
  Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-17 18:00 -0800
    Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:16 -0800
      Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-19 21:43 -0800
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 23:50 -0800
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-20 02:05 -0800
  Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 05:12 -0800
    Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 10:24 -0800
    Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-12-18 19:53 +0000
      Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 15:46 -0500
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-18 22:41 +0100
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:20 -0800
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 23:31 -0800
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-18 23:57 -0800
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 02:45 -0800
            Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-12-19 20:41 +0100
              Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:23 -0800
            Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-19 21:01 +0100
              Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:24 -0800
            Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:22 -0800
            Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-19 18:27 -0800
              Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 23:48 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-20 01:43 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 17:51 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 20:07 -0800
              Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-20 14:51 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 20:16 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-23 21:50 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-24 15:51 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-24 16:24 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-12-25 03:26 +0000
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-26 17:30 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-25 09:49 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-26 17:44 -0800
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:22 -0800
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:18 -0800
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2012-12-23 11:57 -0500
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 14:29 -0500
      Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-18 23:24 -0800
      Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:18 -0800
    Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:17 -0800
      Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 16:26 -0500
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:29 -0800
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 17:11 -0500
            Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 23:45 -0800
              Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 17:59 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 20:22 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-21 12:59 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 21:54 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 00:59 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 22:23 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 01:48 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 16:34 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-21 13:55 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 16:59 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-21 15:39 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 18:43 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-21 15:50 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 19:01 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 22:05 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 21:57 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 01:00 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 22:25 -0800
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 23:44 -0800
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 23:46 -0800
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-12-20 13:04 +0100
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 18:18 -0500
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-12-20 14:40 +0000
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-20 19:42 +0100
            Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-21 13:01 -0800
              Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 16:36 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-21 13:46 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-23 20:02 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-23 21:28 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-23 21:58 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 22:26 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-12-24 14:46 +0000
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-21 23:45 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 18:42 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-22 01:23 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 14:23 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-12-23 16:02 -0600
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-24 00:51 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 20:29 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 23:01 -0800
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 18:23 -0500
            Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 23:05 -0800
              Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-25 09:40 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-26 00:20 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-26 23:07 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-27 21:07 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-27 12:48 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-27 16:42 -0500
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 20:24 -0800
            Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-21 13:24 -0800
              The huge Gavino off topic thread  was: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 16:57 -0500
                Re: The huge Gavino off topic thread  was: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 23:13 -0800
                Re: The huge Gavino off topic thread was: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 00:43 -0800
                Re: The huge Gavino off topic thread was: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 10:34 -0500
                Re: The huge Gavino off topic thread was: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 14:28 -0800
              Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 22:37 -0800
              Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 22:51 -0800
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 08:27 -0800
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-12-20 18:44 +0000
            Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-20 21:37 +0100
              Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 22:34 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 01:47 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 23:18 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-24 15:53 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 14:26 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-25 00:09 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 15:29 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-26 10:18 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-27 00:35 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-27 02:25 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-27 21:13 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-27 23:06 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-28 01:24 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-28 23:39 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-29 00:32 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-29 01:05 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-29 10:20 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-28 11:03 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-27 16:50 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-28 02:37 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-28 09:15 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-28 11:15 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-29 01:01 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-30 15:52 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-30 23:41 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-31 11:20 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-31 18:21 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-31 15:41 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-01 03:32 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-02 01:46 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-03 22:36 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 08:25 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 12:46 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 11:38 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-01-09 08:19 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-09 17:52 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-09 19:45 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-10 17:41 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 18:29 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 09:29 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 14:42 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 18:25 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 14:55 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-22 17:43 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-12-31 01:38 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-12-31 02:54 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-05 03:17 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 21:23 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-10 03:44 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-10 18:03 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-11 02:52 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 17:11 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 18:30 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-13 22:54 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 09:30 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 14:42 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-14 15:58 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-15 02:02 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 15:00 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-22 16:57 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-22 17:21 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 17:37 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-14 16:13 -0800
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-14 11:10 +0000
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 09:50 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 09:55 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-14 09:12 -0600
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-14 22:09 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 16:17 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-14 21:20 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 16:26 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-15 02:31 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-15 00:15 -0500
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-17 02:04 +0100
                Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 14:57 -0800
          Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 23:15 -0800
      Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2012-12-20 17:33 -0800
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 17:09 -0500
        Re: any misc chip desktop pc yet? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 22:46 -0800

csiph-web