Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #33668

Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD!

From	Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD!
Date	2016-02-08 13:17 +0100
Message-ID	<dhrfbkFae81U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <c1b3b4c8-2481-48fa-b4ad-9fcde6333811@googlegroups.com> <4deef389-ea5b-483a-bff5-4e1bdd45de2e@googlegroups.com> <2b736fcd-b72c-49b5-b4b8-9657ecebd51e@googlegroups.com> <dhmg70F2luoU1@mid.individual.net> <728b8b89-9c94-4d41-b794-3e797f34a8cd@googlegroups.com>

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On 07.02.2016 23:19, boxzou@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, 6 February 2016 10:02:03 UTC-5, Robert Klemme  wrote:
>> On 06.02.2016 01:09, b...@gmail.com wrote:

>> I don't know why they did it.  Can you provide any references to the
>> reasoning of those projects to abandon checked exceptions?
> the rational is exactly I stated in my blog.

Come one.  You must understand that it is something else that you claim 
they follow your argument than reading what they wrote themselves. 
Since you want to make the point against checked exception the burden is 
on you to provide backing arguments.

>>> This is only 3 levels, enterprise applications sometimes have 20+ levels. the throws clause would grow exponentially for each method.  Soon the code would be nothing but exceptions!
>>
>> This is silly - for a number of reasons:
>>    - all intermediate methods can choose what exception to catch
>> themselves and what they throw.
>>    - they can especially choose to throw another exception type wrapping
>> the original one.
>>    - inheritance also works for exceptions
>>
>> Hiding exception conditions does not make all the ways go away in which
>> various functionalities can fail.  You need flexible and robust ways to
>> handle them.  That's what you get with exceptions.
> throwing runtime exception is not hiding.  Wrapping exception or
> exception inheritance obscures the exception and defeats the purpose
> of checked exception because you have to dig into cause or find child
> exception type to know how to deal with it.  Once you do that, it's
> worse than runtime exception because you have to do all the extra
> wrapping unwrapping, finding child type etc.  It's better to have the
> exception info as is but checked exception makes it impossible to do
> so.

There are various ways to go about things and unfortunately that does 
not fit well with the "X is good / bad" approach you are taking.

For example: whether unwrapping needs to be done manually is completely 
dependent on the use case.  When logging, the logging framework usually 
takes care of that (or rather implementation in Throwable).  When 
catching it is often sufficient to know why the immediately called 
module failed without digging into the details of underlying layers. 
The case where you would have to extract one or more levels of root 
cause exceptions is an extremely rare case (I cannot remember having 
come across that need even once).  Abandoning a useful feature just 
because of some minor disadvantages does not show good judgment. 
Eventually it is all about trade offs.  Your radical approach suggests 
that you do not embrace that concept.

Good luck!

	robert

-- 
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Thread

Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-04 07:18 -0800
  Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-02-04 08:15 -0800
    Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-04 17:57 +0100
      Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-02-04 10:09 -0800
        Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-04 21:01 +0100
          Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-02-04 12:14 -0800
          Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-04 15:16 -0500
            Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-04 21:37 +0100
              Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-02-04 13:08 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! 4ndre4 <4ndre4@4ndre4.com.invalid> - 2016-02-04 21:16 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-02-04 13:28 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-04 23:11 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! a.laforgia@gmail.com - 2016-02-05 04:21 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-05 13:07 +0000
              Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-04 18:04 -0500
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-02-05 11:40 -0800
          Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2016-02-04 23:22 +0100
          Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! ruben <ceo@iran.gov> - 2016-02-15 11:45 +0000
      Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-04 11:57 -0800
        Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-04 21:07 +0100
    Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-04 11:10 -0800
      Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-02-04 11:28 -0800
        Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-04 11:33 -0800
          Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! 4ndre4 <4ndre4@4ndre4.com.invalid> - 2016-02-04 21:08 +0000
          Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2016-02-04 16:09 -0800
  Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-04 12:00 -0500
  Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Marcel Mueller <news.5.maazl@spamgourmet.org> - 2016-02-04 19:28 +0100
    Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-04 11:15 -0800
      Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-04 14:51 -0500
  Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! 4ndre4 <4ndre4@4ndre4.com.invalid> - 2016-02-04 21:07 +0000
    Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-04 14:36 -0800
      Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! a.laforgia@gmail.com - 2016-02-05 05:28 -0800
  Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-04 15:31 -0800
    Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-05 08:20 -0500
      Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-05 08:25 -0800
        Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 08:47 -0800
          Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-05 16:09 -0800
            Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-06 08:38 -0500
              Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-06 14:13 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-06 15:23 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2016-02-07 14:49 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2016-02-07 21:55 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 14:39 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2016-02-08 13:30 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-08 06:14 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2016-02-08 20:55 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 16:06 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-08 18:38 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-09 12:15 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-09 04:59 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 12:13 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-10 19:00 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-11 12:18 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exceptions leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2016-02-11 04:43 -0600
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 14:34 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 14:11 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-07 23:19 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 15:42 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-06 09:43 -0500
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 14:14 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-08 09:22 -0500
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-08 11:01 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-08 11:08 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2016-02-08 22:02 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 14:09 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-07 23:29 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2016-02-08 21:49 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-08 17:23 -0500
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-08 18:46 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2016-02-09 08:21 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-09 04:58 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-09 08:17 -0500
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-09 07:57 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2016-02-10 02:37 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-10 18:58 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-11 08:13 -0500
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 14:02 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-11 16:41 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2016-02-10 02:31 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-10 18:47 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-09 12:26 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-09 04:57 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-09 18:27 +0000
              Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 20:19 -0800
            Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2016-02-06 16:01 +0100
              Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! 4ndre4 <4ndre4@4ndre4.com.invalid> - 2016-02-06 15:10 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2016-02-06 17:59 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! 4ndre4 <4ndre4@4ndre4.com.invalid> - 2016-02-07 09:34 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 14:23 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 20:52 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 21:13 -0800
              Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-07 14:19 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-07 23:42 +0000
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2016-02-08 13:17 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-08 04:39 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 16:05 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-08 18:35 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-08 19:10 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-08 19:12 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-11 16:37 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-11 12:00 -0500
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-11 19:01 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2016-02-11 20:32 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-11 15:20 -0500
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-11 23:53 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-11 18:21 -0500
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 15:45 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-12 01:19 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 19:18 -0800
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2016-02-12 08:31 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-12 15:33 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-12 15:41 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2016-02-12 15:42 +0100
                Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-02-08 21:19 +0000
        Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-02-05 13:00 -0500
  Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-04 15:51 -0800
    Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-04 15:59 -0800
      Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! boxzou@gmail.com - 2016-02-04 16:03 -0800
    Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 05:33 -0800
  Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2016-02-04 21:05 -0800
  Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! ynseo <yeori.seo@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 01:05 -0800
  Re: Java Checked Exception is BAD! Sebastian <sebastian.millies@softwareag.com> - 2016-02-19 03:43 -0800

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