Re: energy and mass

From	john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity, sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: energy and mass
Date	2026-03-15 14:18 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<nd7erk5dr6acatp48qj89bj03o7n0u6o6h@4ax.com> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <1rrvm8j.xgt7kh5umvqsN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <10p0bal$2p711$5@dont-email.me> <1rrwmmd.1c25t9pwot6n0N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <10p43k0$a44n$12@dont-email.me> <1rs17vr.1xbf71y29a409N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 21:57:00 +0100, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:

>Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> On 14/03/2026 8:05 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> > Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> On 13/03/2026 7:58 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 12/03/2026 9:51 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 12/03/2026 4:45 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 11/03/2026 9:20 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/03/2026 7:21 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/03/2026 2:29 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/08/2026 07:44 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/03/2026 2:19 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/2026 04:33 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/03/2026 1:59 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/06/2026 10:12 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/03/2026 2:47 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/06/2026 05:36 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/03/2026 7:37 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Dienstag000003, 03.03.2026 um 13:40 Bill Sloman:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/03/2026 8:06 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Sonntag000001, 01.03.2026 um 11:03 Bill Sloman:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/03/2026 8:26 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag000028, 28.02.2026 um 14:17 Bill Sloman:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 28/02/2026 8:03 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Donnerstag000026, 26.02.2026 um 15:05 Ross
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finlayson:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/26/2026 02:21 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/02/2026 9:46 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/02/2026 4:02 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/24/2026 03:40 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
>:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/23/2026 12:49 PM, J. J. Lodder:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.co
>m>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> <snip>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The consequent tidal forces inside the sun sap kinetic energy
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> from the earth's orbital movement, in the same way that tides
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> on earth are causing the moons orbit to change.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is a mistake. There is no tidal dissipation in the sun.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> The sun will have tides too and the tidal ridges and valleys on
>> >>>>>>>>>> the surface of the will influence the movement of the earth, and
>> >>>>>>>>>> the movement of surface of the sun will absorb energy.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> You are clutching at straws to save an erroneous idea.
>> >>>>>>>>> Sometimes it is easier to just admit to having made a mistake.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Go ahead.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> There will be tidal dissipation in the sun, but not much of it.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Effectively nothing.
>> >>>>>>>>> Remember that the relevant part of the sun is turbulent plasma.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I'm well aware of it. Tidal excursions will still dissipate some
>> >>>>>>>> energy.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> OK, OK, you are behaving like just another crackpot
>> >>>>>>> who can't bring himself to admit that his pet idea is wrong.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> It's not my pet idea. It's just difficult for me to imagine that
>> >>>>>> there won't be tides on the sun, or that the tidal flows will be
>> >>>>>> non-dissipative.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Of course there will be a (very small) tide in the sun,
>> >>>>> and of course it will not be completely non-dissipative.
>> >>>>> That doesn't mean that it is in any way relevant.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We weren't talking about relevance. I wanted to see a coherent world
>> >>>> picture.
>> >>>
>> >>> A coherent world picture involves having correct ideas
>> >>> about orders of magnitude, and relevance or irrelevance.
>> >>
>> >> If the tides exist, but are too small to be important, it isn't a reason
>> >> to deny their very existence.
>> >>
>> >>> Or do you also include a note on the phases of the moon
>> >>> in your electronics measurements?
>> >>
>> >> As a graduate student I used to joke that I ought to include it in my
>> >> reaction data. I certainly need to record a lot of data that didn't look
>> >> directly relevant
>> >>
>> >>>>>> It's easy to imagine that they won't be significant.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Imagining is always easy.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It's a lot easier than doing plasma stability calculations.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>> A turbulent plasma threaded by magnetic fields is not going to behave
>> >>>>>> in a way that is going to be easy to analyse.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Indeed. Those in fusion research know all too well.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And are very willing to tell people how difficult it is.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sure, any excuse for not having a fusion reactor yet will do.
>> >>
>> >> The people I was in contact with - for a very different project -
>> >> actually got their machine to fuse a few nuclei. They'd put off doing it
>> >> until they'd got all the data they really needed because the neutron
>> >> flux was high enough to leave insides of the machine dangerously
>> >> radioactive, but it made for a nice sign-off press release.
>> > 
>> > I know, in tradition. They are good at press releases over there.
>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_sun_of_our_own_newspaper_headline.jpg>
>> > 
>> >>>>>>> Enough said.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sure. You  want to dismiss me as crank.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> That is a misunderstanding on your part.
>> >>>>> I am telling you that you are behaving like one.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sci.physics.relativity has
>> >>>>>> enough cranks to make it a plausible strategy, and I've been exploiting
>> >>>>>> it myself, but I'm probably not enough of a crank for it to work.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It is not about what you are, it is about how you are behaving,
>> >>>>> (on this particular point)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I do take care not to behave too much like a crank.
>> >>>
>> >>> FYI, you are behaving too much like a crank on this.
>> >>> No better than for example TH on his growing Earth.
>> >>> Is it really too hard for you to admit for once that you goofed?
>> >>
>> >> I have no problem admitting that I've goofed when I actually have
>> >> goofed.
>> > 
>> > Well, you did.
>> > May I remind you that we started out this sub-thread with your:
>> > ========================================================================
>> > Gravity applies a force. That isn't doing work. The earth orbits the sun
>> > without doing much work at all. The consequent tidal forces inside the
>> > sun sap kinetic energy from the earth's orbital movement, in the same
>> > way that tides on earth are causing the moons orbit to change.
>> > ========================================================================
>> > 
>> > This is just plain wrong.
>> > The cause is the dragging of the tidal bulges on Earth.
>> 
>> What I posted was less specific than " The cause is the dragging of the
>> tidal bulges on Earth" but it's not wrong. You can't have tidal bulges
>> without a tide.
>
>Your
>============================================================================
>'The consequent tidal forces inside the sun sap kinetic energy from the
>earth's orbital movement'
>============================================================================
>is competely wrong.

If earth creates tides in the sun, won't that warm up the sun and slow
down earth? Conservation of energy and all that.

Pretty small at this distance, I expect. One estimate is that solar
tides increase the earth-sun distance about a micron per year. Not to
worry, I guess.

>
>> >> My feeling is that you are now acting more like a crank than I did.
>> > 
>> > You might consider applying the First Law of Holes?
>> 
>> It strikes me that it you who is digging yourself into a hole, and every
>> time you post another specious claim, you are looking even more like a
>> crank.
>
>OK, you don't understand the tides, and you don't want to learn,
>and you'll never admit to a mistake, no matter what.
>We can leave it at that,
>
>Jan
>
>PS, and just for s.e.d readers, is he like that over there too?
>

His mission in life is to tell everyone how stupid and wrong they are.

John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

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Thread

Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-06 09:37 +0100
  Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-07 00:36 +1100
    Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-06 07:47 -0800
      Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-07 17:12 +1100
        Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 06:59 -0800
          Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-08 11:33 +1100
            Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 19:19 -0800
              Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 01:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 08:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 12:52 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 20:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 20:17 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 00:09 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 07:36 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 09:09 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:17 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-10 23:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:14 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 08:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2026-03-11 13:50 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 14:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 00:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 16:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:07 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 07:11 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 18:26 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 09:56 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:22 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 12:56 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 23:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 14:16 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:45 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ronnie Pantelakos <ina@snl.gr> - 2026-03-12 17:38 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-12 22:12 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Tathan Nagahama <gagngt@mmatata.jp> - 2026-03-12 22:11 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-13 01:47 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Cristobal Umehara <be@iu.jp> - 2026-03-13 16:50 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Jairo Pantelakos <soaonjo@iai.gr> - 2026-03-14 13:21 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 16:18 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-14 20:46 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 16:59 -0700
                GPS (was: energy and mass) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 16:23 +0100
                Re: GPS (was: energy and mass) Brock Nakamura <cruan@bknkkror.jp> - 2026-03-14 15:39 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 18:31 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Virgil Dömötör <rr@egi.hu> - 2026-03-14 17:43 +0000
                Re: GPS (was: energy and mass) Kyndal Zsoldos <odondo@ndzsda.hu> - 2026-03-14 15:52 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 18:37 +0100
                Re: GPS Mikey Santiago <ime@ymsn.pt> - 2026-03-14 19:49 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-15 15:29 +0100
                Re: GPS Frauly Christakos <acrahr@afrafs.gr> - 2026-03-15 14:37 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-15 19:17 +0100
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-15 19:22 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Enmanuel Jacques <cucus@mulneam.fr> - 2026-03-15 20:00 +0000
                GPS (was: energy and mass) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-15 22:40 +0100
                Re: GPS Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-15 23:06 +0100
                Re: GPS (was: energy and mass) Nestor Rooijakkers <skk@ereno.nl> - 2026-03-16 14:15 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-16 15:37 +0100
                Re: GPS Bernie Gonzalez <inzbi@rol.es> - 2026-03-16 17:13 +0000
                Re: energy and mass athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-16 11:27 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Shay Hofwegen <gwg@eewyow.nl> - 2026-03-16 17:25 +0000
                Re: GPS Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 08:08 -0700
                Re: GPS Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-16 10:16 +0100
                Re: GPS Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:26 -0700
                Re: GPS Leopold Bicchieri <deo@rehi.it> - 2026-03-16 14:26 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 18:16 +0100
                Re: GPS Lowen Missiakos <osmi@wlss.gr> - 2026-03-14 17:49 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 19:44 +0100
                Re: GPS Ridge Górski <kgie@gigg.pl> - 2026-03-14 19:39 +0000
                Re: GPS Krinden Hoffmann <efne@roeaa.de> - 2026-03-15 14:44 +0000
                GPS (was: energy and mass) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-16 01:20 +0100
                GPS (was: energy and mass) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-16 01:22 +0100
                Re: GPS (was: energy and mass) Jovanni Rodrigues <iav@ignj.pt> - 2026-03-16 14:00 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-16 15:26 +0100
                Re: GPS Webster Schuchardt <tcbr@tteue.de> - 2026-03-16 14:33 +0000
                Re: GPS Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 07:54 -0700
                Re: GPS Hever Ramires <ihme@aermr.pt> - 2026-03-16 17:09 +0000
                Re: GPS Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:08 -0700
                Re: GPS Kile Karolina <oeelka@aili.net> - 2026-03-17 18:05 +0000
                Re: GPS Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:44 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Donel Profeta <aadeafe@nefe.it> - 2026-03-15 15:17 +0000
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 18:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-12 10:35 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-13 10:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 03:42 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-15 21:42 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 21:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-16 08:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:06 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-17 01:14 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 00:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-17 10:34 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 15:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 00:27 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:00 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 11:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 11:47 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 15:14 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-19 07:47 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 18:11 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 15:07 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 23:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 18:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-19 09:31 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 20:38 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-19 11:54 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-20 11:59 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-20 15:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-22 12:12 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-23 23:05 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-21 16:23 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-19 07:47 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 07:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 15:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 10:59 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 11:41 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 13:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 23:59 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 07:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-09 21:49 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 15:24 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 15:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 22:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 16:58 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 23:26 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 09:25 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 04:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 10:45 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:26 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 08:19 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 00:34 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 16:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:16 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 07:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 18:39 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 09:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 10:17 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:42 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 13:03 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 23:23 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 07:05 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:31 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 08:38 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 08:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 00:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 03:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 10:13 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:51 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:51 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 17:02 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 01:00 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 18:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 12:48 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 11:51 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 04:09 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 17:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-13 22:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 14:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 21:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 03:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-15 21:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-15 14:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 17:24 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-15 18:10 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:14 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 01:52 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 08:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-16 08:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 10:49 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 00:43 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 15:35 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 17:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 06:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 20:41 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:10 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 11:37 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 23:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 13:37 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 07:48 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:58 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:47 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 15:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 13:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 23:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:41 +1100
      Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 20:14 -0700
        Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 16:16 +1100
          Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 06:58 -0700
            Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 08:13 -0700
          Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-15 17:01 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 09:39 -0700
              Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 09:55 -0700
              Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 15:16 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:21 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 02:10 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 10:56 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 07:57 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 04:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:35 +1100
            Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 15:01 +1100
              Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-16 11:00 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 02:18 +1100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-16 08:34 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:02 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-17 07:20 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:12 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 06:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:47 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-16 22:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:03 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 04:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:43 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 16:05 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 07:39 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:07 -0700
          Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-18 09:11 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:28 +1100
              Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-19 12:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-20 01:35 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:44 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:52 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 09:42 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 09:58 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 10:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-20 11:00 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-21 02:54 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-22 10:31 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-22 22:21 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-23 09:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-23 22:31 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-23 08:11 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-19 11:17 -0700
    Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-08 09:53 +0100
      Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 02:07 +1100

csiph-web