Re: energy and mass

From	Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity, sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: energy and mass
Date	2026-03-16 14:49 +1100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<10p7ujr$1kml3$5@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <10p43k0$a44n$12@dont-email.me> <1rs17vr.1xbf71y29a409N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <nd7erk5dr6acatp48qj89bj03o7n0u6o6h@4ax.com> <ssycnV_x7tcz0Cr0nZ2dnZfqnPdaVmCt@giganews.com> <l1merk1hbadlbf5lhq54qk39rh9kccah55@4ax.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 16/03/2026 12:10 pm, john larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 17:24:20 -0700, Ross Finlayson
> <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 03/15/2026 02:18 PM, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2026 21:57:00 +0100, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>>> Lodder) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 14/03/2026 8:05 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 13/03/2026 7:58 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/03/2026 9:51 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/03/2026 4:45 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/03/2026 9:20 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/03/2026 7:21 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/03/2026 2:29 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/08/2026 07:44 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/03/2026 2:19 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/2026 04:33 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/03/2026 1:59 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/06/2026 10:12 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/03/2026 2:47 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/06/2026 05:36 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/03/2026 7:37 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Dienstag000003, 03.03.2026 um 13:40 Bill Sloman:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/03/2026 8:06 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Sonntag000001, 01.03.2026 um 11:03 Bill Sloman:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/03/2026 8:26 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag000028, 28.02.2026 um 14:17 Bill Sloman:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 28/02/2026 8:03 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Donnerstag000026, 26.02.2026 um 15:05 Ross
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finlayson:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/26/2026 02:21 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/02/2026 9:46 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/02/2026 4:02 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/24/2026 03:40 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/23/2026 12:49 PM, J. J. Lodder:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.co
>>>> m>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The consequent tidal forces inside the sun sap kinetic energy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the earth's orbital movement, in the same way that tides
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on earth are causing the moons orbit to change.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a mistake. There is no tidal dissipation in the sun.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The sun will have tides too and the tidal ridges and valleys on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the surface of the will influence the movement of the earth, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the movement of surface of the sun will absorb energy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are clutching at straws to save an erroneous idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes it is easier to just admit to having made a mistake.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Go ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There will be tidal dissipation in the sun, but not much of it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Effectively nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember that the relevant part of the sun is turbulent plasma.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm well aware of it. Tidal excursions will still dissipate some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, OK, you are behaving like just another crackpot
>>>>>>>>>>>> who can't bring himself to admit that his pet idea is wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not my pet idea. It's just difficult for me to imagine that
>>>>>>>>>>> there won't be tides on the sun, or that the tidal flows will be
>>>>>>>>>>> non-dissipative.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Of course there will be a (very small) tide in the sun,
>>>>>>>>>> and of course it will not be completely non-dissipative.
>>>>>>>>>> That doesn't mean that it is in any way relevant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We weren't talking about relevance. I wanted to see a coherent world
>>>>>>>>> picture.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A coherent world picture involves having correct ideas
>>>>>>>> about orders of magnitude, and relevance or irrelevance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the tides exist, but are too small to be important, it isn't a reason
>>>>>>> to deny their very existence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or do you also include a note on the phases of the moon
>>>>>>>> in your electronics measurements?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a graduate student I used to joke that I ought to include it in my
>>>>>>> reaction data. I certainly need to record a lot of data that didn't look
>>>>>>> directly relevant
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's easy to imagine that they won't be significant.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Imagining is always easy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's a lot easier than doing plasma stability calculations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A turbulent plasma threaded by magnetic fields is not going to behave
>>>>>>>>>>> in a way that is going to be easy to analyse.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Indeed. Those in fusion research know all too well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And are very willing to tell people how difficult it is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure, any excuse for not having a fusion reactor yet will do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The people I was in contact with - for a very different project -
>>>>>>> actually got their machine to fuse a few nuclei. They'd put off doing it
>>>>>>> until they'd got all the data they really needed because the neutron
>>>>>>> flux was high enough to leave insides of the machine dangerously
>>>>>>> radioactive, but it made for a nice sign-off press release.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know, in tradition. They are good at press releases over there.
>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_sun_of_our_own_newspaper_headline.jpg>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Enough said.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sure. You  want to dismiss me as crank.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is a misunderstanding on your part.
>>>>>>>>>> I am telling you that you are behaving like one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sci.physics.relativity has
>>>>>>>>>>> enough cranks to make it a plausible strategy, and I've been exploiting
>>>>>>>>>>> it myself, but I'm probably not enough of a crank for it to work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is not about what you are, it is about how you are behaving,
>>>>>>>>>> (on this particular point)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do take care not to behave too much like a crank.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FYI, you are behaving too much like a crank on this.
>>>>>>>> No better than for example TH on his growing Earth.
>>>>>>>> Is it really too hard for you to admit for once that you goofed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have no problem admitting that I've goofed when I actually have
>>>>>>> goofed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, you did.
>>>>>> May I remind you that we started out this sub-thread with your:
>>>>>> ========================================================================
>>>>>> Gravity applies a force. That isn't doing work. The earth orbits the sun
>>>>>> without doing much work at all. The consequent tidal forces inside the
>>>>>> sun sap kinetic energy from the earth's orbital movement, in the same
>>>>>> way that tides on earth are causing the moons orbit to change.
>>>>>> ========================================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is just plain wrong.
>>>>>> The cause is the dragging of the tidal bulges on Earth.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I posted was less specific than " The cause is the dragging of the
>>>>> tidal bulges on Earth" but it's not wrong. You can't have tidal bulges
>>>>> without a tide.
>>>>
>>>> Your
>>>> ============================================================================
>>>> 'The consequent tidal forces inside the sun sap kinetic energy from the
>>>> earth's orbital movement'
>>>> ============================================================================
>>>> is competely wrong.
>>>
>>> If earth creates tides in the sun, won't that warm up the sun and slow
>>> down earth? Conservation of energy and all that.
>>>
>>> Pretty small at this distance, I expect. One estimate is that solar
>>> tides increase the earth-sun distance about a micron per year. Not to
>>> worry, I guess.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> My feeling is that you are now acting more like a crank than I did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You might consider applying the First Law of Holes?
>>>>>
>>>>> It strikes me that it you who is digging yourself into a hole, and every
>>>>> time you post another specious claim, you are looking even more like a
>>>>> crank.
>>>>
>>>> OK, you don't understand the tides, and you don't want to learn,
>>>> and you'll never admit to a mistake, no matter what.
>>>> We can leave it at that,
>>>>
>>>> Jan
>>>>
>>>> PS, and just for s.e.d readers, is he like that over there too?
>>>>
>>>
>>> His mission in life is to tell everyone how stupid and wrong they are.
>>>
>>> John Larkin
>>> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
>>> Lunatic Fringe Electronics
>>>
>>
>> Just seems he either doesn't think there's demonstrated competence,
>> or an error occurred without explaining why it's not.
>>
>> Not so different from usual sock-puppet trolls, who usually
>> fail and bail on their first mis-step, as otherwise all the
>> instances that came before them were immediately sent to
>> the exit state.
>>
>> What a cruel world it must be.
>>
> 
> Being constantly nasty is boring.

John Larkin is only nasty when he doesn't get the flattery he expects, 
but that happens quite a lot.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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Thread

Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-06 09:37 +0100
  Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-07 00:36 +1100
    Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-06 07:47 -0800
      Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-07 17:12 +1100
        Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 06:59 -0800
          Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-08 11:33 +1100
            Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 19:19 -0800
              Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 01:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 08:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 12:52 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 20:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 20:17 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 00:09 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 07:36 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 09:09 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:17 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-10 23:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:14 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 08:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2026-03-11 13:50 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 14:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 00:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 16:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:07 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 07:11 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 18:26 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 09:56 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:22 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 12:56 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 23:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 14:16 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:45 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ronnie Pantelakos <ina@snl.gr> - 2026-03-12 17:38 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-12 22:12 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Tathan Nagahama <gagngt@mmatata.jp> - 2026-03-12 22:11 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-13 01:47 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Cristobal Umehara <be@iu.jp> - 2026-03-13 16:50 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Jairo Pantelakos <soaonjo@iai.gr> - 2026-03-14 13:21 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 16:18 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-14 20:46 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 16:59 -0700
                GPS (was: energy and mass) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 16:23 +0100
                Re: GPS (was: energy and mass) Brock Nakamura <cruan@bknkkror.jp> - 2026-03-14 15:39 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 18:31 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Virgil Dömötör <rr@egi.hu> - 2026-03-14 17:43 +0000
                Re: GPS (was: energy and mass) Kyndal Zsoldos <odondo@ndzsda.hu> - 2026-03-14 15:52 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 18:37 +0100
                Re: GPS Mikey Santiago <ime@ymsn.pt> - 2026-03-14 19:49 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-15 15:29 +0100
                Re: GPS Frauly Christakos <acrahr@afrafs.gr> - 2026-03-15 14:37 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-15 19:17 +0100
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-15 19:22 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Enmanuel Jacques <cucus@mulneam.fr> - 2026-03-15 20:00 +0000
                GPS (was: energy and mass) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-15 22:40 +0100
                Re: GPS Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-15 23:06 +0100
                Re: GPS (was: energy and mass) Nestor Rooijakkers <skk@ereno.nl> - 2026-03-16 14:15 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-16 15:37 +0100
                Re: GPS Bernie Gonzalez <inzbi@rol.es> - 2026-03-16 17:13 +0000
                Re: energy and mass athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-16 11:27 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Shay Hofwegen <gwg@eewyow.nl> - 2026-03-16 17:25 +0000
                Re: GPS Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 08:08 -0700
                Re: GPS Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-16 10:16 +0100
                Re: GPS Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:26 -0700
                Re: GPS Leopold Bicchieri <deo@rehi.it> - 2026-03-16 14:26 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 18:16 +0100
                Re: GPS Lowen Missiakos <osmi@wlss.gr> - 2026-03-14 17:49 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-14 19:44 +0100
                Re: GPS Ridge Górski <kgie@gigg.pl> - 2026-03-14 19:39 +0000
                Re: GPS Krinden Hoffmann <efne@roeaa.de> - 2026-03-15 14:44 +0000
                GPS (was: energy and mass) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-16 01:20 +0100
                GPS (was: energy and mass) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-16 01:22 +0100
                Re: GPS (was: energy and mass) Jovanni Rodrigues <iav@ignj.pt> - 2026-03-16 14:00 +0000
                Re: GPS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-16 15:26 +0100
                Re: GPS Webster Schuchardt <tcbr@tteue.de> - 2026-03-16 14:33 +0000
                Re: GPS Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 07:54 -0700
                Re: GPS Hever Ramires <ihme@aermr.pt> - 2026-03-16 17:09 +0000
                Re: GPS Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:08 -0700
                Re: GPS Kile Karolina <oeelka@aili.net> - 2026-03-17 18:05 +0000
                Re: GPS Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:44 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Donel Profeta <aadeafe@nefe.it> - 2026-03-15 15:17 +0000
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 18:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-12 10:35 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-13 10:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 03:42 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-15 21:42 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 21:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-16 08:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:06 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-17 01:14 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 00:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-17 10:34 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 15:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 00:27 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:00 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 11:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 11:47 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 15:14 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-19 07:47 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 18:11 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 15:07 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 23:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 18:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-19 09:31 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 20:38 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-19 11:54 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-20 11:59 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-20 15:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-22 12:12 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-23 23:05 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-21 16:23 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-19 07:47 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 07:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 15:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 10:59 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 11:41 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 13:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 23:59 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 07:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-09 21:49 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 15:24 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 15:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 22:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 16:58 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 23:26 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 09:25 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 04:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 10:45 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:26 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 08:19 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 00:34 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 16:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:16 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 07:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 18:39 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 09:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 10:17 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:42 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 13:03 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 23:23 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 07:05 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:31 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 08:38 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 08:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 00:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 03:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 10:13 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:51 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:51 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 17:02 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 01:00 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 18:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 12:48 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 11:51 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 04:09 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 17:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-13 22:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 14:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 21:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 03:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-15 21:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-15 14:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 17:24 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-15 18:10 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:14 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 01:52 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 08:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-16 08:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 10:49 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 00:43 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 15:35 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 17:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 06:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 20:41 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:10 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 11:37 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 23:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 13:37 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 07:48 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:58 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:47 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 15:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 13:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 23:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:41 +1100
      Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 20:14 -0700
        Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 16:16 +1100
          Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 06:58 -0700
            Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 08:13 -0700
          Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-15 17:01 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 09:39 -0700
              Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 09:55 -0700
              Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 15:16 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:21 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 02:10 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 10:56 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 07:57 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 04:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:35 +1100
            Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 15:01 +1100
              Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-16 11:00 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 02:18 +1100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-16 08:34 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:02 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-17 07:20 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:12 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 06:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:47 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-16 22:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:03 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 04:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:43 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 16:05 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 07:39 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:07 -0700
          Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-18 09:11 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:28 +1100
              Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-19 12:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-20 01:35 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:44 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:52 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 09:42 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 09:58 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 10:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-20 11:00 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-21 02:54 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-22 10:31 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-22 22:21 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-23 09:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-23 22:31 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-23 08:11 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-19 11:17 -0700
    Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-08 09:53 +0100
      Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 02:07 +1100

csiph-web