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Re: What do they teach in school today?

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On 9/13/2015 11:19 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <mt33a3$lpf$1@news.albasani.net>, cr88192@hotmail.com says...
>>
>> On 9/12/2015 9:20 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>>
>>> "BGB" <cr88192@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:mt18a8$3ja$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> I suspect most of why I always did programming before, was because it
>>>> was a hobby I could do for free, unlike electronics where one is
>>>> basically blowing lots of money on electronic components and similar
>>>> (like, needing lots of different transistors for different operating
>>>> ranges, motors are kind of expensive, ...).
>>>>
>>>> though, making things IRL, you can make something that is "actually
>>>> there". though code also has its merits, but I have reached a point of
>>>> "no one cares", which does pose a limit.
>>>
>>> Yeah. I think a number of us have personal projects that are, well,
>>> personal; no one else would be interested in them. Perhaps that's our
>>> lot because we are writing them for ourselves and in some degree of
>>> isolation. At least if we are working on something as part of a team
>>> then the client and the other team members will have a shared interest.
>>> That can have its downsides, though, depending on their attitudes!
>>>
>>
>> pretty much.
>>
>> I have my video-compression stuff, and no one cares.
>>
>> I tend to focus mostly on high-speed low-complexity designs, as the main
>> alternative (low-speed high-complexity) is already pretty well covered
>> (H.264). it has been personally useful to some extent for my own uses
>> (capturing the desktop at full resolution, or streaming video from my
>> robots).
>>
>> my compiler stuff is similarly niche. people don't care I suspect
>> because generally I have ended up using it to run: a C variant; another
>> language which is generally pretty solidly in the "extended C family".
>>
>> but, "useful for my purposes" isn't really leading to anything "clearly
>> different" from mainstream languages.
>>
>> but, personally, I saw little gain in difference for difference sake,
>> nor in trying to specify how programming "should" be done (my thinking
>> being more that people will do whatever is useful for them, and that
>> language design should provide mechanism and not policy).
>>
>>
>> but, recently I am mostly like, "meh whatever", as I start work on
>> trying to build something resembling the Motobug from the Sonic the
>> Hedgehog series.
>>
>> but, it is cheap/lazy, and maintains balance via counterweights.
>
> That your compilers are niche is less important than that you can
> actually write compilers.  That says you've got major skillz.  Is that
> information on your resume?
>

I mentioned both my compiler/VM, and 3D games programming experience.
last time a person commented on my resume, they recommended leaving off 
all the programming-related stuff, as it was 'irrelevant'.

but, granted, most of my life has been as a hobbyist, I have crap-all to 
put in the 'work experience' section, which is the main thing the person 
in question seemed to care about.


the person in question was for hiring for jobs at a local paper mill, 
which makes a wide selection of brand-name toilet-paper.


>  From what you're saying here, IMO, if you're not making a large income
> right now it's not because you have an education problem or an
> experience problem, it's because you have a communication problem.  You
> clearly have in-demand skills.  Not compiler-writing per se, but the
> fact that you can write compilers says that you can perform a
> programming task that is commonly regarded as difficult, suggesting that
> you can perform other programming tasks that are also regarded as
> difficult.
>

education is that one has paid the money and gone through the rituals to 
show that a person is allowed to do one thing or another. like, it is 
all about what it says on paper a person can or can't do.

like, a person can also go to a diploma mill and get an instant degree 
and make stuff up and get a well-paid job, whether or not they actually 
have the skills and experience. HR people are, similarly, happy to 
oblige, since on-paper they are what they say they are (then they do the 
job and people pay them to do so all just the same).

granted, this isn't an ethical solution.

it is like, doing the proper thing and grinding for ones' stats in an 
MMO, or using a hacking tool to give themselves piles of XP and gold 
(say, because the game in question holds this info on the client rather 
than keeping it on a profile server). the GMs wont be happy about hacked 
stats, maybe ban them if they are found out, but otherwise pretty much 
everything else is the same.


if a person does things on their own though, it isn't really 
"education", so it doesn't really count for anything.

and, on the other side, if a person should know how to do something but 
doesn't, they can often wing it and hope no one notices the difference 
(and/or just say whatever will make the boss happy).


> Searching for work is a different skill set from doing that work--that
> means that very talented people often are un- or under-employed because
> they never learned the job-finding skill set, only the job-doing skill
> set.  A lot of people have trouble with this notion--I know I did.
>

or most of the jobs are in the east or west coast areas, but not really 
as much in the midwestern US... these areas are more known for 
oil-fields, corn, hog-farms, ... and some amount of industrial 
manufacturing (heavy industry, ...).

but, don't really want to move anywhere else for now, for various 
reasons. particularly not densely populated coastal areas, which are 
fairly likely to be a death-trap in the case of a societal collapse...


> This isn't really the place to do a career-coaching seminar though.
> Simplest thing to do though--figure out where you want to work--make a
> list of 50-100 companies, and then research and target each one--no one-
> size-fits-all resume, there should be one for each company and for each
> position within the company.  Don't forget to follow up with phone
> calls, thank you notes, etc.
>

the number of programming jobs listed in local listings is generally 
crap-all once you eliminate everything looking for PHP and/or completely 
unrelated (but happening to have one or two keywords which match by some 
heuristic, *, ...).


*: like job-search sites will go from 'programmer' to 'software 
engineer' to ... 'owner operator' (AKA: driving a semi-truck).

eliminating any that want a degree, and this typically leaves a good 
solid crap-all.


> Check out groups where people who do the kind of work you're interested
> in might be found--"Meet Up" <http://www.meetup.com/> is a good tool for
> this.  Go to meetings, participate, talk to people.  When an opening
> comes up you may get the inside track.  Most people who get hired do it
> through networking.
>
> Oh, and learn to chat people up wherever you are.  Standing in line in
> the supermarket for example.  You never know who you're going to be
> talking to.  Everybody eats.
>

most people at the stores use SNAP cards, I have my doubts...

better luck probably at stores which don't accept SNAP cards, and thus 
exclude much of the general population.

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What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 18:17 -0400
  Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-20 23:56 +0100
    Re: What do they teach in school today? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 16:10 -0700
  Re: What do they teach in school today? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-08-20 23:55 +0000
    Re: What do they teach in school today? Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2015-08-24 04:28 -0700
  Re: What do they teach in school today? Leo <chris.w.l.macleod@sympatico.ca> - 2015-08-20 21:21 -0400
  Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-23 09:33 -0500
    Re: What do they teach in school today? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 09:47 -0700
      Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-23 14:45 -0500
    Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 23:27 -0400
      Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-24 09:48 -0500
        Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 00:49 -0400
          Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-25 09:58 -0500
            Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 19:30 -0400
            Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 20:49 +0100
              Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:26 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 10:58 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 08:06 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 15:20 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-13 00:53 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 12:19 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-14 00:32 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 07:17 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-14 09:29 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 13:11 -0400
          Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 20:55 +0100
            Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 20:20 -0400
              Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:44 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 08:29 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-11 17:05 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Mark Carroll <mtbc@bcs.org> - 2015-09-11 17:07 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-11 17:27 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:51 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-11 14:55 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:54 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 17:52 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-12 00:23 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 22:45 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:56 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 11:04 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 08:10 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 15:24 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-12 15:36 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 23:24 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-16 13:08 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-09-16 18:54 +0000
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-17 00:15 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 21:08 -0700
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:49 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 19:56 -0500
  Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 21:21 +0100
    Re: What do they teach in school today? Mark Carroll <mtbc@bcs.org> - 2015-09-05 22:54 +0100
      Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 23:17 +0100
        Re: What do they teach in school today? Mark Carroll <mtbc@bcs.org> - 2015-09-06 09:59 +0100
          Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 11:11 +0100
    Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 19:59 -0400
    Re: What do they teach in school today? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-11 14:59 -0500

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