Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.programming > #5658

Re: What do they teach in school today?

Show all headers | View raw

On 8/24/2015 11:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <mrfb5m$eo3$1@news.albasani.net>, cr88192@hotmail.com says...
>>
>> On 8/23/2015 10:27 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> In article <mrclte$bud$1@news.albasani.net>, cr88192@hotmail.com says...
>>>>
>>>> On 8/20/2015 5:17 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> I was talking to a recent computer science graduate today.  He had never
>>>>> seen C, never seen Fortran, had no notion of a shell script or batch
>>>>> file, had never heard of ActiveX or .net or gcc.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what does somebody spend four years doing in a modern university
>>>>> computer science program?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> when I went for a CS major, it was mostly things like C# and SQL.
>>>> one class did C++, but the teacher seemed to not really know so well how
>>>> the language worked (he never used delete, seemed to think setting
>>>> object pointers to NULL deleted the referenced objects, ...).
>>>>
>>>> the rest was mostly "general ed" classes, like English/Literature and
>>>> Calculus and so on...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> never did get a degree, running into the problem that I actually suck
>>>> too much at math to really make it through a CS program (issue I suspect
>>>> is I am too much of a concrete thinker, and get lost in math that goes
>>>> beyond what I can easily visualize). we were also in the process of a
>>>> move (parents had already moved, and I would move to the new location as
>>>> soon as classes ended), so there was no chance to retake the class, and
>>>> most of the credits wouldn't transfer to another college anyways.
>>>>
>>>> but, yeah, does render it pointless having been one class away from a
>>>> degree, more years of ones' life rendered completely pointless, since no
>>>> degree = no job.
>>>>
>>>> and parents wanting to move every few years and send me to colleges for
>>>> not long enough to actually get a degree in anything didn't help matters.
>>>>
>>>> and, as far as everyone is concerned, no degree, no job, no money, no
>>>> house, ... = useless.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> now taking a simpler tech-school program in industrial maintenance.
>>>> there is at least a lower change of this getting screwed up.
>>>>
>>>> one gets to realize that industrial people mostly use PLCs and similar,
>>>> which are mostly controlled with pointy-clicky graphical interfaces
>>>> (Ladder Logic and LabVIEW). have got to mess around with a lot of stuff
>>>> (440VAC and hydraulics and pneumatics and similar) and drive around a
>>>> forklift, so it is something...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> apparently in this area, messing around with C and microcontrollers is
>>>> essentially black-magic in this sense... (one can code up stuff on a
>>>> microcontroller, and use some transistors and similar, and spin up an
>>>> improvised 3 phase motor, without needing to spend $500 on a VFD or
>>>> similar...).
>>>>
>>>> nevermind if spinning up a 208V or 440V motor would require buying some
>>>> comparably expensive IGBT or SiC MOSFET (silicon carbide) transistors.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and, will I ever get a job or have a life or actually be worth anything
>>>> as a person? who knows...
>>>
>>> A year ago I thought my life was over.  61, no recent programming
>>> experience, outdated degree and not CS.  Got hired for over 60K.  We had
>>> another position for which we got something like 5 applicants.  And
>>> another that's open now.
>>>
>>> Get some experience, somehow, and I think you'll be surprised at the
>>> doors that open, degree or no degree.  The fact is that people who can
>>> actually produce code are scarce these days.
>>>
>>
>> yeah, could be.
>>
>> where I am living, there are not a lot of programming jobs, and most of
>> these are web/business/financial stuff, which I personally don't want to
>> go anywhere near. likewise, don't want to relocate right now either.
>
> A year ago I would have said the same thing.  Don't avoid the
> "business/financial stuff".  It may seem boring but it's experience
> regardless.

in business computing though, if anything goes wrong (almost invariable 
with programming), someone needs to take the fall, often through legal 
action (lawsuits against former employees for lurking bugs, ...).

don't want to deal with this, as it doesn't take much to realize that 
pretty much any code has bugs hidden in it somewhere...


>>
>> but, on the positive side, what I am doing is a lot cheaper...
>>
>> likewise, a person can't fry themselves with lower voltages.
>> say, touch 48 VAC wires, and they are mostly just mildly stingy, and one
>> can't even really feel 24 VAC.
>>
>> also, most of the components I have effectively limit me to about 48 VAC
>> for single and dual phase, and 15-24 VAC for 3-phase. mostly it has to
>> do with how commons are handled (1Ph and 2Ph can have a floating common,
>> whereas 3Ph needs a stationary common, meaning needing about 2.8x as
>> much voltage on the DC rail for inverting 3Ph)
>>
>> granted, a person can use step-up transformers, but I don't really have
>> any good ones on hand...
>>
>> the crappy driver board I was using in the videos limits me to around 6
>> or 7 volts of 3Ph though...
>
> Sounds like you might do better with EE than CS if you ever get a chance
> to go back to school.
>

what I am doing right now is probably closer to EE than CS, but I am 
using both skillsets I suspect (both programming and electronics, as 
well as a small amount of overlap with mechanical engineering and 
machining).


granted, it doesn't take much code to run a 3-phase inverter, for example:
   http://pastebin.com/ftg01XWG

is basically what I can fit on a fairly small MSP430 (MSP430G2232, ex: 
2kB ROM, 256B RAM).


some of my fancier stuff (on higher end controllers) has involved use of 
specialized compilers and VMs, but... you aren't exactly going to be 
able to run much of a VM in a 2kB ROM...

Back to comp.programming | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 18:17 -0400
  Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-20 23:56 +0100
    Re: What do they teach in school today? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 16:10 -0700
  Re: What do they teach in school today? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-08-20 23:55 +0000
    Re: What do they teach in school today? Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2015-08-24 04:28 -0700
  Re: What do they teach in school today? Leo <chris.w.l.macleod@sympatico.ca> - 2015-08-20 21:21 -0400
  Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-23 09:33 -0500
    Re: What do they teach in school today? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 09:47 -0700
      Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-23 14:45 -0500
    Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 23:27 -0400
      Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-24 09:48 -0500
        Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 00:49 -0400
          Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-25 09:58 -0500
            Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 19:30 -0400
            Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 20:49 +0100
              Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:26 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 10:58 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 08:06 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 15:20 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-13 00:53 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 12:19 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-14 00:32 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 07:17 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-14 09:29 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 13:11 -0400
          Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 20:55 +0100
            Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 20:20 -0400
              Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:44 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 08:29 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-11 17:05 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Mark Carroll <mtbc@bcs.org> - 2015-09-11 17:07 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-11 17:27 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:51 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-11 14:55 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:54 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 17:52 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-12 00:23 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 22:45 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:56 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 11:04 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 08:10 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 15:24 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-12 15:36 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 23:24 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-16 13:08 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-09-16 18:54 +0000
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-17 00:15 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 21:08 -0700
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:49 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 19:56 -0500
  Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 21:21 +0100
    Re: What do they teach in school today? Mark Carroll <mtbc@bcs.org> - 2015-09-05 22:54 +0100
      Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 23:17 +0100
        Re: What do they teach in school today? Mark Carroll <mtbc@bcs.org> - 2015-09-06 09:59 +0100
          Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 11:11 +0100
    Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 19:59 -0400
    Re: What do they teach in school today? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-11 14:59 -0500

csiph-web