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Re: What do they teach in school today?

From Mark Carroll <mtbc@bcs.org>
Newsgroups comp.programming
Subject Re: What do they teach in school today?
Date 2015-09-05 22:54 +0100
Organization none
Message-ID <87io7obkht.fsf@ixod.org> (permalink)
References <MPG.30401c0c36885213989ac3@news.eternal-september.org> <msfioj$i8c$1@dont-email.me>

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"James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> writes:
(snip)
> From things I have seen on TV recently it seems that when educators do 
> teach kids to program it is using things like Scratch which allows 
> programs to be composed by dragging constructs and dropping them in a 
> gui. There's an example of it at
>
>   https://scratch.mit.edu/
>
> I can see some value in it for tiny tots perhaps but, otherwise,
> aargh!

My son's in secondary school in Perth, Scotland. Everybody did Scratch
and Build Your Own Blocks. He chose to continue with computing, and is
thus now on VisualBasic and will be doing Java at some point. How
typical that is I've no idea.

(snip)
> I thought to reply to this partly as I have seen a similar amazing (not 
> good-amazing) change in the books on computing available in local 
> libraries. When I was young libraries had books on programming languages 
> and how to write things like compilers.
>
> My local library, now, has books like a beginner's guide to spreadsheets 
> but when I looked for a book on programming, at least in Python, they 
> had absolutely nothing. Even more incredibly, expanding the search to 
> all the libraries in the same council-controlled area also resulted in 
> *no* books whatever on programming in Python.
(snip)
> I don't know what the world's coming to. Am I sounding old? ;-)

(You seem to be posting from a British perspective; I hope readers
elsewhere will forgive my continuing that below.)

Mine isn't great either, Perth certainly not: I instead drive over to
Dundee and their central library's "Opportunities Room" /does/ have a
few books. (Admittedly, it's not obvious the room exists, it's around a
corner at the end of the top floor and I don't see a sign!) My wife
liked one of their Java books, and I have about their only decent, if a
bit old, XML book on hold now, somebody else has it out. (I have some
XSLT joy coming up at work.) It's certainly not a wide or up-to-date
selection, but it's better than nothing.

Of course, there's a lack of academic books too. Those with access to
good university libraries are very lucky. I suppose they're expensive.

There's a general lack of study resources, though: in many other
subjects in these modern times there's a lack of "apprenticeships" in
industry and a lack of textbooks that are decent for self-study instead
of being designed as an adjunct to some taught course. They don't even
put those nice Open University lectures on television in the early
mornings any more and if one looks at local night school courses it's
all pottery and whatnot. In computing we're lucky that at least decent
self-study books for practical programming can be bought and one
typically doesn't need expensive resources to be able to work on them.
Indeed, outside the Microsoft world a lot of industry standard stuff is
available for free download, like the whole stack from PostgreSQL up
through Hibernate, Lucene and Spring to Tomcat and JavaScript with
jQuery and Backbone.

There /is/ a British Computer Society sign up in Dundee's central
library but what actually happens in connection with it I've no idea,
which is slightly embarrassing with my being a member myself. Maybe
someday I should pop my head around that door and actually ask.

No Python books does sound pretty sorry. Even Perth has "Beginning
Programming with Python for Dummies" (albeit only one copy that is
"awaiting shelving", not yet reservable) though no obvious O'Reilly.
(I've not studied Python myself, mostly I bluff my way through it based
on what I know of OOP and Perl and Haskell.)

-- Mark

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Thread

What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 18:17 -0400
  Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-20 23:56 +0100
    Re: What do they teach in school today? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 16:10 -0700
  Re: What do they teach in school today? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-08-20 23:55 +0000
    Re: What do they teach in school today? Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2015-08-24 04:28 -0700
  Re: What do they teach in school today? Leo <chris.w.l.macleod@sympatico.ca> - 2015-08-20 21:21 -0400
  Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-23 09:33 -0500
    Re: What do they teach in school today? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 09:47 -0700
      Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-23 14:45 -0500
    Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 23:27 -0400
      Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-24 09:48 -0500
        Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 00:49 -0400
          Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-25 09:58 -0500
            Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 19:30 -0400
            Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 20:49 +0100
              Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:26 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 10:58 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 08:06 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 15:20 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-13 00:53 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 12:19 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-14 00:32 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 07:17 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-14 09:29 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 13:11 -0400
          Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 20:55 +0100
            Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 20:20 -0400
              Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:44 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 08:29 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-11 17:05 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Mark Carroll <mtbc@bcs.org> - 2015-09-11 17:07 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-11 17:27 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:51 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-11 14:55 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:54 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 17:52 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-12 00:23 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-11 22:45 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:56 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 11:04 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 08:10 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 15:24 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-12 15:36 +0100
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 23:24 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-16 13:08 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-09-16 18:54 +0000
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-17 00:15 -0500
                Re: What do they teach in school today? Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 21:08 -0700
                Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 12:49 -0400
                Re: What do they teach in school today? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-12 19:56 -0500
  Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 21:21 +0100
    Re: What do they teach in school today? Mark Carroll <mtbc@bcs.org> - 2015-09-05 22:54 +0100
      Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 23:17 +0100
        Re: What do they teach in school today? Mark Carroll <mtbc@bcs.org> - 2015-09-06 09:59 +0100
          Re: What do they teach in school today? "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 11:11 +0100
    Re: What do they teach in school today? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 19:59 -0400
    Re: What do they teach in school today? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-09-11 14:59 -0500

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