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Re: Return of the Applets?

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On 4/7/2015 4:22 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 13:16:20 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
<snip>
>> Java can't call TCP/IP either, without native-OS libraries.  The only
>> difference is these libraries are supplied with the JVM.
>>
> Of course, but like C, this stuff is in the standard libraries and well 
> documented. The O'Reilly 'Lion' book may be old, but its still a 
> worthwhile part of every *NIX programmers toolkit.
> 
> For this discussion I think its fair to make a distinction between a 
> language's standard library and any locally written or 3rd party 
> libraries: the standard library counts as part of the language because it 
> and its documentation are there and available once the compiler is 
> installed while locally written/third parties don't count as part of the 
> language because they require extra time/effort/money to acquire, learn 
> and use.
>

I don't see any difference between a library which is supplied with the
compiler and an external library which has become a defacto standard,
For instance, in C++, STL at one time was an external library (actually
set of templates).  But it became a defacto standard, then finally a
standard.

Acquiring these libraries is generally pretty easy, and learning to use
them no more or less difficult and time consuming than if they were a
part of the compiler-supplied library.

>> It's pretty simple.  As part of the documentation, programmers indicate
>> the number of LOC in the function/method.  We've always kept a running
>> total, and used that against our design metrics to see how close we are
>> to the estimated workload.
>>
> OK
>  
>> Source_lines is not a good metric; it isn't unusual to have a long
>> source line span multiple lines in the file.  And occasionally you'll
>> have more than one statement on the same line.  For instance:
>>
> Indeed: thats why I suggested that:
>  
>   commentlines = sourcelines - statements  
> 
>> if (i == 3) return 5;
>> else return 6;
>>
>> Depending on how you write it, this could be two, three or four LOC.
>> How do you count it?  You can't do it with a simple line counter;
>>
> Sure, but for languages that use semicolons, counting them or, better, 
> counting lines that contain semicolons gives fairly reasonable results: 
> "good enough for government work" as an ex-army helicopter flying 
> instructor used to say.
> 

Not really.  Statements is not the same as LOC.  This would be two
statements - but in most cases it would be written on three or four
lines, counting as that many lines of code.

Depending on the program, the difference may be significant.


>> BTW - I usually count it as 3 lines (the "else" is not required), but
>> that needs to be determined as part of the project documentation so
>> everyone is on the same page.  But that doc may say to include the
>> "else", even though it is not strictly required at this time, for
>> consistency.
>>
> ... and don't lets get into the problems of counting
> 
>    if (cond) {
>       statement;
> 
> versus
>    if (cond)
>    {
>       statement;
>    }
> 
> As I said, semicolon counting isn't all bad: in these cases it gives the 
> same answer even if it opens up additional cans of worms with 'for' 
> statements.
> 

I don't know anyone who would consider a single brace to be a LOC.  But
this also brings up the point that you can't just count non-blank lines
and subtract lines with comments.

> Similarly, though I've never tried it, counting full-stops at the end of 
> lines would probably work for COBOL. this method wouldn't be confused by 
> fullstops in data item pictures or decimal points in numeric literals, 
> and would correctly say that an indexed READ or a SEARCH statement was a 
> single statement even if it was spread over several lines as is commonly 
> done. Comments are fairly straight forward too: just count NOTE 
> statements and all following lines that don't end with a full stop as 
> well as lines with an asterisk as the first non-numeric, non-whitespace
> character.
> 
> 

Which can take a significant amount of parsing to handle correctly.  Not
easy to do.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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Thread

Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 09:46 -0400
  Re: Return of the Applets? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-05 13:12 -0400
  Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 15:14 -0400
    Re: Return of the Applets? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-04-05 16:41 -0400
      Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 16:54 -0400
        Re: Return of the Applets? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-04-05 17:08 -0400
          Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 17:17 -0400
            Re: Return of the Applets? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-04-05 17:30 -0400
              Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 17:42 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-04-05 17:52 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 18:17 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Luuk <luuk@invalid.lan> - 2015-04-06 11:26 +0200
    Re: Return of the Applets? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2015-04-06 13:23 -0500
      Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-06 15:09 -0400
        Re: Return of the Applets? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2015-04-06 17:33 -0500
          Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-06 17:44 -0400
            Re: Return of the Applets? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2015-04-06 19:10 -0500
              Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-06 20:03 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2015-04-06 21:36 -0500
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 09:11 -0400
            Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-06 23:25 +0000
              Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-06 19:59 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-07 13:29 +0000
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 10:45 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-07 15:51 +0000
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 13:16 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-07 20:22 +0000
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 17:03 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreskog.localdomain> - 2015-04-07 11:34 -0500
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 13:18 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreskog.localdomain> - 2015-04-07 12:40 -0500
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 17:06 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-07 20:28 +0000
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 17:11 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-07 23:00 +0000
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 19:25 -0400
  Re: Return of the Applets? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2015-04-06 13:09 -0500

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