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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #31503

Re: Return of the Applets?

From Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: Return of the Applets?
Date 2015-04-06 23:25 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mfv4kv$9q2$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <mfs1gc$83b$1@dont-email.me> <mfufc2$r3q$1@dont-email.me> <mfuljg$l3a$1@dont-email.me> <mfuu0u$nqj$1@dont-email.me> <mfuums$q9u$1@dont-email.me>

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On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 17:44:48 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> LOC has been used as a measurement standard for the 47+ years I've been
> programming.  You may not think it's a good measurement, but the experts
> in the field pretty much all agree on it.
>
LOC counting is a useful measurement within a project or within a single-
language shop, but I don't think its at all useful for making 
measurements between languages except in limited cases.

Its probably meaningful for comparing programming productivity between 
block-structured languages because by and large they tend to have similar 
sized statements and the statements have similar capabilities. But, once 
you start comparing radically different languages, it no longer makes 
sense to use LOC counting: the better 4GLs (Sculptor, NCC Filetab, 
Cognos, PowerBuilder, Xbase) can do a huge amount with very little code 
and so can be written very quickly while a COBOL program of less than 
1000 lines would be little more than a warm-up exercise in most of the 
shops I've worked in. Every other language, except maybe assemblers, fit 
somewhere in between these extremes.

Another problem with LOC measurements is that they usually ignore 
comments. Now, that may be OK in COBOL programs provided the local 
standards require meaningful data names and procedure division section 
and paragraph names because its hard to write anything that anywhere near 
as incomprehensible as a C-spell even if you use ALTER statements, but 
other languages (assembler, C, RPG) can easily become impenetrable 
without comments, and some are hard to follow almost by design (APL, 
Forth). I remmeber reading that Ken Iverson once wrote a screen editor in 
26 lines of APL but was unable to amend it himself six months later: no 
comments of course, or it wouldn't have come anywhere close to fitting on 
a screen. 

Bottom line: a good programmer uses clear, well thought out comments 
throughout his code and sensible programming groups require it as part of 
their work packages because they know it will make changes easier. But 
nonetheless comments are ignored by almost all LOC statistics gathering 
tools. IMO this devalues the use of LOC counting for anything except 
estimating new projects and even there its results tend not to be valid 
outside a particular organisation and programming environment.

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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Thread

Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 09:46 -0400
  Re: Return of the Applets? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-05 13:12 -0400
  Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 15:14 -0400
    Re: Return of the Applets? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-04-05 16:41 -0400
      Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 16:54 -0400
        Re: Return of the Applets? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-04-05 17:08 -0400
          Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 17:17 -0400
            Re: Return of the Applets? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-04-05 17:30 -0400
              Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 17:42 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-04-05 17:52 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-05 18:17 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Luuk <luuk@invalid.lan> - 2015-04-06 11:26 +0200
    Re: Return of the Applets? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2015-04-06 13:23 -0500
      Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-06 15:09 -0400
        Re: Return of the Applets? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2015-04-06 17:33 -0500
          Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-06 17:44 -0400
            Re: Return of the Applets? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2015-04-06 19:10 -0500
              Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-06 20:03 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2015-04-06 21:36 -0500
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 09:11 -0400
            Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-06 23:25 +0000
              Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-06 19:59 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-07 13:29 +0000
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 10:45 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-07 15:51 +0000
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 13:16 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-07 20:22 +0000
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 17:03 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreskog.localdomain> - 2015-04-07 11:34 -0500
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 13:18 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreskog.localdomain> - 2015-04-07 12:40 -0500
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 17:06 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-07 20:28 +0000
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 17:11 -0400
                Re: Return of the Applets? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-07 23:00 +0000
                Re: Return of the Applets? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-04-07 19:25 -0400
  Re: Return of the Applets? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2015-04-06 13:09 -0500

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