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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #405949

Re: spreadsheet ergonomics

From owl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: spreadsheet ergonomics
Date 2017-04-04 04:45 +0000
Organization O.W.L.
Message-ID <zb3ugoa00.aulu@rooftop.invalid> (permalink)
References (8 earlier) <D507F81F.9C861%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <bajz8v94.ab8@rooftop.invalid> <D50809B9.9C89B%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <guc8892.a@rooftop.invalid> <D508606D.9C996%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>

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Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 4/3/17, 7:30 PM, in article guc8892.a@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
> <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
> 
> ...
>>>>>>>> Numbers -- updating a sheet with data from a completely separate file.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well, this whole thing is a work around to try to emulate what Numbers
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> easily... have multiple tables all on one sheet
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And the question is why are you doing that anyway when you can just use
>>>>>> different sections of one sheet for the work?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why do it that way when you are not limited to it? Why not have each
>>>>> logical
>>>>> section be its own table?
>>>> 
>>>> Because it doesn't need to be separated.
>>> 
>>> Need. No. But why not have the logical separations be separate visually and
>>> logically?
>> 
>> You haven't shown any benefit to that.
> 
> Sure I have... it allows you to group logically separate concepts into
> separate tables on the same sheet, it allows you to have data where columns
> do not line up, etc. I focused on this in the video on the magic spell
> calculation.
> 

And I do all of that using separate windows, possibly embedded into
a single window.


> On the other side, I do not believe you have offered any benefits to denying
> such choice.

I don't deny such choice.  I provide it.


> Keep in mind nothing in Numbers forces you to do it this way.
> 
>> I can freeze ranges and view distant cells, or I can jump to a distant table
>> with
>> 
>> g "table3"
>> 
>> That jump could also be tied to a function key, so that hitting f3 would
>> take me there.
>> 
>> 
>>> What is the benefit to combining them? And what about different
>>> widths? I talk about that some here:
>>> 
>>>     <https://youtu.be/VzVKlou6byU>
> 
> Here is the video I spoke of which talks about some of the benefits you say
> I have not shown.
> 

Mine does all of that.


>>>>> Makes it easier to update and maintain and move
>>>>> things around anyway... and table rows from one table do not effect the
>>>>> width of other data, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Who cares about that?
>>> 
>>> People who use spreadsheets generally care about them being easier to update
>>> and main and move things around.
>>> 
>>>> About 1/2 of 1 percent of the population. Your way is like have a 200 acre
>>>> farm and never leaving the front porch.
>>> 
>>> What? And you can do it all in one table if you want... but, again, why
>>> would you want to be limited to that?
>> 
>> I can live with a 22-million cell limit.
> 
> I have not suggested the point of multiple tables in one sheet has anything
> to do with bypassing a limit of cells per table.
> 

You have implied that you want everything visible at a glance.  That
limits your cell use to however many cells can appear in the window,
whether that's a sheet or a group of tables arranged in the window.
So why even have more than about 1000 cells in a sheet if you're never
going to use them?  All that capacity is going to waste with your
appoach. 

>>> ... 
>>>>> It is running a spreadsheet. And it is from a known, trusted source.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I thought you stipulated an untrusted source.  You did specify that you did
>>>> not really know what the file did.  So would you run a Numbers spreadsheet
>>>> from an untrusted source?
>>> 
>>> Run the file? You mean open it in Numbers. Sure. The risk is very tiny.
>>> Compare that to the risk of someone following your suggestions to merely
>>> rename an open file... if they do not know what that are doing they could
>>> easily and repeatedly lose data.
>> 
>> The risk is huge.  It is closed-source.
> 
> What harm would you expect me to have run into. Anyone? By all means point
> to it.
>

Malware. 

Just one example:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205373
<quote>
Keynote, Pages, and Numbers
Available for: OS X Yosemite v10.10.4 or later, iOS 8.4 or later
Impact: Opening a maliciously crafted document may lead to unexpected
application termination or arbitrary code execution
</quote>


> With YOUR suggestion, with an open source tool, we saw the hazard: an
> unknowing person could have lost data. Twice.
> 

We saw you move the goalposts beyond the specifications. 

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Thread

Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 04:45 +0000
  Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-01 23:34 -0700
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 08:58 +0000
      Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 08:59 -0700
        Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 00:14 +0000
          Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 17:33 -0700
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 01:46 +0000
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 19:24 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 04:53 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 10:20 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 19:40 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:17 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 21:24 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:32 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 02:15 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 19:24 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 02:39 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 20:35 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 04:15 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 21:31 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 05:01 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 08:51 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 13:56 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 21:12 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 14:53 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 22:42 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:08 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 01:49 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:57 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 02:15 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 19:46 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 20:51 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 04:03 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:30 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 15:02 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 10:53 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 19:38 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 13:01 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 20:54 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:16 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 02:30 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 20:26 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 04:45 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 09:29 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 20:49 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 14:20 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 22:38 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:05 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 01:14 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:41 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 02:05 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 19:27 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 03:59 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 21:32 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 05:23 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 08:30 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 20:39 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 15:01 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 00:08 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 18:23 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 01:46 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 20:30 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 04:14 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 21:33 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 05:08 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 08:23 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:06 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 14:57 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 22:05 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 15:25 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 22:52 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 16:15 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 00:12 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 18:14 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 01:34 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 18:48 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-05 11:55 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 09:03 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:17 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 15:15 -0700

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