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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #405947
| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.os.linux.advocacy |
| Subject | Re: spreadsheet ergonomics |
| Date | 2017-04-03 21:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <D5086FC8.9C9AC%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> (permalink) |
| References | (9 earlier) <lahuz003.8au33@rooftop.invalid> <D50851E0.9C986%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <a8003gq.bay@rooftop.invalid> <D508628A.9C99C%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <ahzub003.ag@rooftop.invalid> |
On 4/3/17, 9:15 PM, in article ahzub003.ag@rooftop.invalid, "owl" <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote: > Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote: >> On 4/3/17, 7:39 PM, in article a8003gq.bay@rooftop.invalid, "owl" >> <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote: >> >>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote: >>>> On 4/3/17, 7:15 PM, in article lahuz003.8au33@rooftop.invalid, "owl" >>>> <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>> ... >>>>>>> You whined about dependencies. Numbers is a dependency or the file >>>>>>> is worthless. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Um, what? >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps you do not understand the concept of dependencies? >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps you don't. >>>> >>>> Well, I am sure there are details I do not know... but with the file I am >>>> speaking about you need either a modern web browser or the Numbers program. >>> >>> Numbers requires a Mack. So that's out. >> >> Actually, nope: does not require a Mac at all. > > Oh. IOS. Either way, you gotta buy overpriced hardware just to run it. Well, the Mac line is certainly long in the tooth... but not really interested in such a debate. Seems you are pretty eager to change the topic from spreadsheets. Hmmmmm... almost like you understand the things you deny understanding. :) >> But, sure, it is limited to what OSs you can use and that is a deal breaker >> for many situations. No argument here. But also not on topic. >> >>>> Nothing more (assuming you have those things actually running on your >>>> system >>>> with all that they need!) >>> >>> All you need with mine is an ssh client. >> >> Which I have. So let's test yours! > > I already showed connecting remotely from a VM to the host and having > the app windows display on the VM. Hey, I shared mine in a way where you can just click a link. I likely will set yours up in the next day or two, but why not just give me easy access like I gave you? >>>>>> I mean, sure, to use a program you need that program. To use sc you are >>>>>> pointing to a bunch of other programs one may very well not even have >>>>>> (even >>>>>> on Linux). >>>>> >>>>> So nothing from a Linux repo qualifies as competition for a Mack app >>>>> because installing it would install dependencies. OK. >>>> >>>> Not sure what word game you are trying to play. Can you get more specific? >>> >>> Can you? Why whine about dependencies unless they cannot be met? >> >> The point had nothing to do with about them being able to be met. Why even >> bring that up? It is about the end user having to set their system up to >> meet them. Two completely different things. > > If this code were delivered as a repo package, the dependencies would > install automatically. Right. If. But it is not. And you are still talking a set of programs... not just a data file. But, sure, if it was automated and from a secure source that would be great... though you still have your scripts which could be risky. >> Above you speak of Numbers needing macOS (which is not quite true but close >> enough). Sure, that is a deal breaker for many situations. I openly admit to >> the weaknesses of the solutions I talk about. I am honest. > > LOL. What weaknesses do you think I try to hide? >> One thing I find interesting about Linux "advocates" is how hard it is for >> them to speak of the weaknesses of their solutions... even such obvious >> things as lacking the ability to have multiple tables on one sheet in a way >> pretty much any user can easily create. > > Granny would not be able to do it with Numbers. My intro classes often have many grandmothers (though I have not taught that class in a few semesters). Most of the students, though, are seniors. I have taught it for Mac and Windows. I do not focus much on spreadsheets but we do a little... I get them to the point where they are given a small bag of M&Ms and they make a simple spreadsheet and chart based on it. In some classes they then combine the data -- depending on their skills and interests. In a class for people with learning disabilities and head trauma and the like I took them further than that (again have taught that for Mac and Windows). Also true of a class for vets, though I have only taught that on Windows. > You have biased assumptions based on your personal experience with and > preference for Mack. Keep in mind I also teach on Windows... and use Linux (though not as much as I have in the past). But if you have specific examples of bias you wish to address, even though off topic here, I am open to it. I think we all have our biases. I am open to hearing about mine (does not mean I will agree with you, but I will listen). >>>> And even with those other programs to tie into sc and support your scripts, >>>> as far as I know nothing comes close to what I have shown you. Your >>>> solution >>>> surely does not. >>>> >>> >>> No looping updates required. >>> https://vid.me/txC9 >>> >> The flickering of the "running external function" and other flashing >> messages and the inability to directly manipulate the data would be annoying >> for me, but if it works for you, great. > > Did you watch it? I told you there is no more looping update to cause > "flickering" and interfere with editing. Updates are done with magic > dust now. At 0:04:11 I see "Running external function..." in GAH3. Are you saying you do not even see it? Repeats at 0:21:17 and 0:51:00. If your screen recording software is not showing all frames might even be others it missed. Or I could have missed some. There is also flashing text talking about how gah1.sc is being written to, etc. >> Care to show setting that up, from scratch, as I did with my multiple table >> solution? > > Why? So we can compare how easy each solution is, of course. > People don't make spreadsheets just to enjoy the process of making them. Right! That is why it is important it is easy to do! They want to focus on the end product, not the process of creation. If what you are doing is a far more complex process than that is a pretty big weakness for the exact reason you state. For what it is worth that is a general statement... there can also be joy in the process for some... you clearly get that and there are times I do, too. Not putting that down. > But anyway, I make my by hand in vi. Here's a line count of the component > files: > > anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l gah1.sc > 8 gah1.sc > anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l gah2.sc > 8 gah2.sc > anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l gah3.sc > 15 gah3.sc > anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l ud > 4 ud > anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l startem > 5 startem > anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l startemx > 5 startemx > anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ > > Some lines get added at the top by sc whenever there is a write, so > the actual lines I typed in are fewer. You can use startem or startemx > for a choice of mate-terminals or xterms, but you don't need either one > of those startup scripts. All they basically do is add a title to the > windows and set initial screen position. OK. But you will not show a video of creating your whole setup from scratch (I mean, sure, you can have the terminal open or whatever... and clearly your computer will be booted). -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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