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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #405950
| From | owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.os.linux.advocacy |
| Subject | Re: spreadsheet ergonomics |
| Date | 2017-04-04 05:01 +0000 |
| Organization | O.W.L. |
| Message-ID | <abzc003.agu@rooftop.invalid> (permalink) |
| References | (8 earlier) <D50851E0.9C986%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <a8003gq.bay@rooftop.invalid> <D508628A.9C99C%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <ahzub003.ag@rooftop.invalid> <D5086FC8.9C9AC%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote: > On 4/3/17, 9:15 PM, in article ahzub003.ag@rooftop.invalid, "owl" > <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote: > >> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote: >>> On 4/3/17, 7:39 PM, in article a8003gq.bay@rooftop.invalid, "owl" >>> <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote: >>>>> On 4/3/17, 7:15 PM, in article lahuz003.8au33@rooftop.invalid, "owl" >>>>> <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ... >>>>>>>> You whined about dependencies. Numbers is a dependency or the file >>>>>>>> is worthless. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Um, what? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps you do not understand the concept of dependencies? >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps you don't. >>>>> >>>>> Well, I am sure there are details I do not know... but with the file I am >>>>> speaking about you need either a modern web browser or the Numbers program. >>>> >>>> Numbers requires a Mack. So that's out. >>> >>> Actually, nope: does not require a Mac at all. >> >> Oh. IOS. Either way, you gotta buy overpriced hardware just to run it. > > Well, the Mac line is certainly long in the tooth... but not really > interested in such a debate. Seems you are pretty eager to change the topic > from spreadsheets. Hmmmmm... almost like you understand the things you deny > understanding. :) > >>> But, sure, it is limited to what OSs you can use and that is a deal breaker >>> for many situations. No argument here. But also not on topic. >>> >>>>> Nothing more (assuming you have those things actually running on your >>>>> system >>>>> with all that they need!) >>>> >>>> All you need with mine is an ssh client. >>> >>> Which I have. So let's test yours! >> >> I already showed connecting remotely from a VM to the host and having >> the app windows display on the VM. > > Hey, I shared mine in a way where you can just click a link. I likely will > set yours up in the next day or two, but why not just give me easy access > like I gave you? > >>>>>>> I mean, sure, to use a program you need that program. To use sc you are >>>>>>> pointing to a bunch of other programs one may very well not even have >>>>>>> (even >>>>>>> on Linux). >>>>>> >>>>>> So nothing from a Linux repo qualifies as competition for a Mack app >>>>>> because installing it would install dependencies. OK. >>>>> >>>>> Not sure what word game you are trying to play. Can you get more specific? >>>> >>>> Can you? Why whine about dependencies unless they cannot be met? >>> >>> The point had nothing to do with about them being able to be met. Why even >>> bring that up? It is about the end user having to set their system up to >>> meet them. Two completely different things. >> >> If this code were delivered as a repo package, the dependencies would >> install automatically. > > Right. If. But it is not. > > And you are still talking a set of programs... not just a data file. But, > sure, if it was automated and from a secure source that would be great... > though you still have your scripts which could be risky. > >>> Above you speak of Numbers needing macOS (which is not quite true but close >>> enough). Sure, that is a deal breaker for many situations. I openly admit to >>> the weaknesses of the solutions I talk about. I am honest. >> >> LOL. > > What weaknesses do you think I try to hide? > >>> One thing I find interesting about Linux "advocates" is how hard it is for >>> them to speak of the weaknesses of their solutions... even such obvious >>> things as lacking the ability to have multiple tables on one sheet in a way >>> pretty much any user can easily create. >> >> Granny would not be able to do it with Numbers. > > My intro classes often have many grandmothers (though I have not taught that > class in a few semesters). Most of the students, though, are seniors. I have > taught it for Mac and Windows. > > I do not focus much on spreadsheets but we do a little... I get them to the > point where they are given a small bag of M&Ms and they make a simple > spreadsheet and chart based on it. In some classes they then combine the > data -- depending on their skills and interests. > > In a class for people with learning disabilities and head trauma and the > like I took them further than that (again have taught that for Mac and > Windows). Also true of a class for vets, though I have only taught that on > Windows. > >> You have biased assumptions based on your personal experience with and >> preference for Mack. > > Keep in mind I also teach on Windows... and use Linux (though not as much as > I have in the past). But if you have specific examples of bias you wish to > address, even though off topic here, I am open to it. I think we all have > our biases. I am open to hearing about mine (does not mean I will agree with > you, but I will listen). > >>>>> And even with those other programs to tie into sc and support your scripts, >>>>> as far as I know nothing comes close to what I have shown you. Your >>>>> solution >>>>> surely does not. >>>>> >>>> >>>> No looping updates required. >>>> https://vid.me/txC9 >>>> >>> The flickering of the "running external function" and other flashing >>> messages and the inability to directly manipulate the data would be annoying >>> for me, but if it works for you, great. >> >> Did you watch it? I told you there is no more looping update to cause >> "flickering" and interfere with editing. Updates are done with magic >> dust now. > > At 0:04:11 I see "Running external function..." in GAH3. Are you saying you > do not even see it? Repeats at 0:21:17 and 0:51:00. The cells in GAH3 get updated, but there is no loop. You see that text when an update occurs. > If your screen recording > software is not showing all frames might even be others it missed. Or I > could have missed some. > > There is also flashing text talking about how gah1.sc is being written to, > etc. > It's not in a loop. >>> Care to show setting that up, from scratch, as I did with my multiple table >>> solution? >> >> Why? > > So we can compare how easy each solution is, of course. > >> People don't make spreadsheets just to enjoy the process of making them. > > Right! That is why it is important it is easy to do! They want to focus on > the end product, not the process of creation. So why do you want to focus on the process of creation? > If what you are doing is a far > more complex process than that is a pretty big weakness for the exact reason > you state. > No, it's not complex. Just a matter of typing a few lines. > For what it is worth that is a general statement... there can also be joy in > the process for some... you clearly get that and there are times I do, too. > Not putting that down. > >> But anyway, I make my by hand in vi. Here's a line count of the component >> files: >> >> anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l gah1.sc >> 8 gah1.sc >> anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l gah2.sc >> 8 gah2.sc >> anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l gah3.sc >> 15 gah3.sc >> anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l ud >> 4 ud >> anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l startem >> 5 startem >> anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l startemx >> 5 startemx >> anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ >> >> Some lines get added at the top by sc whenever there is a write, so >> the actual lines I typed in are fewer. You can use startem or startemx >> for a choice of mate-terminals or xterms, but you don't need either one >> of those startup scripts. All they basically do is add a title to the >> windows and set initial screen position. > > OK. But you will not show a video of creating your whole setup from scratch > (I mean, sure, you can have the terminal open or whatever... and clearly > your computer will be booted). > > Imagine me typing a number of lines in vim equivalent to the numbers you see above. That's the entirety of the process. I'm not sure what benefit there would be to making a video of me typing in vim.
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