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Re: Surplus electricity

From john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: Surplus electricity
Date 2026-03-31 10:59 -0700
Organization Highland Technology
Message-ID <dr2oskphgeihjd3jprfhfe2rus324jltrf@4ax.com> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me> <10qbit9$287e$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <10qcrot$241mp$1@dont-email.me> <j34lsk1u4bic5gul1kudo4iab8otvlbt2p@4ax.com> <10qfl5l$326de$1@dont-email.me>

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On Tue, 31 Mar 2026 16:13:21 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:

>On 31/03/2026 2:09 am, john larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:47:41 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 30/03/2026 3:10 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
>>>> "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:10q7ltu$atug$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> On 28/03/2026 5:43 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 01:55:01 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 27/03/2026 10:24 pm, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 15:19:29 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 27/03/2026 1:48 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 01:25:09 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 26/03/2026 8:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 16:51:54 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26/03/2026 6:38 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026-03-25 12:17, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:28:35 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26/03/2026 1:10 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/25/2026 04:21 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2026 6:14 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/24/2026 09:21 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The subject was and is film caps. They use aluminum or zinc or combo
>>>>>> metalizations. Many atoms thick. Look it up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where? I could do it for myself,
>>>>
>>>> For those who aren't convinced that Bill knows enough about search to
>>>> provide suitable links:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=2
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=metallized+film+capacitor+construction&udm=14
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=metalized+film+capacitor+film+thickness&udm=14
>>>>
>>>> As a side note, someone made this:
>>>> https://udm14.com/
>>>> But I doubt that that will last many years.
>>>
>>> The basic question was whether the metalisation was any thicker than
>>> that required to get more than one atom thickness at the thinner points,
>>> and none of your links seem to answer that explicitily.
>> 
>> The basic google query says
>> 
>> AI Overview
>> Comparison of Metallized Film Capacitors and Film/Foil ...
>> Film capacitor metallization typically involves an ultra-thin layer of
>> aluminum, zinc, or an alloy, measuring roughly 0.02 to 0.1 µm
>> 
>>>
>>> There was some emphasis on the self-healing properties of very thin
>>> films - when the there is an arc you want it to be able to vapourise all
>>> the metal in the vicinity without getting the film hot enough to get
>>> carbonised into a state where it too can conduct - but no discussion of
>>> metalisation  thickness as a pile of atoms.
>>>
>>>>> but if you want to pose as an expert, here's your chance to shine.
>>>
>>> You didn't shine.
>> 
>> The self-healing caps usually have a geometric pattern of square cap
>> regions connected by tiny fuses. Those are usually made with
>> aluminum/zinc composite layers.
>
>
>back when I first learned about them - back in 1970 - they didn't.
>
>The wikipedia article you are presumably relying on does talk about 
>"T-shaped sections" for specialised applications, but doesn't suggest 
>that this is what is usually meant.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_capacitor
>
>> You are allowed to look that up and learn.
>
>I make a habit of it. You didn't post the link you seem to have been 
>relying on, and and you don't seem to have learned as much from it as 
>you might have done. Your claim that the metalisation can be an 
>aluminium/zinc composite strikes me a dubious. The metalisation can be 
>either aluminium or zinc, but putting both down on the same film does 
>seem to be improbable. 

You are allowed to look that up and learn.



John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

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Thread

Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-24 13:32 -0700
  Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-24 13:53 -0700
    Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-24 14:17 -0700
      Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-24 15:26 -0700
        Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-24 16:51 -0700
          Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-24 17:53 -0700
            Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 20:54 -0700
              Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-24 21:21 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 00:14 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-25 02:25 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 07:05 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-25 12:30 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 13:29 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-25 14:47 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 15:00 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 15:20 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 15:33 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-25 15:54 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:20 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-25 22:21 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 07:10 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-26 01:28 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 07:45 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-26 16:31 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-25 09:17 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-25 15:38 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-25 14:32 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 14:52 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-25 22:03 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 15:11 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-26 21:17 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-25 22:14 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-25 22:01 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-25 15:52 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-26 20:58 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-26 16:51 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-26 02:48 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-27 01:25 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-26 07:48 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-27 15:19 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-27 04:24 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-28 01:55 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-27 11:43 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-28 15:37 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-29 12:10 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-30 14:47 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-30 08:09 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-31 16:13 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-31 10:59 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-01 15:10 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-01 01:08 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-31 20:34 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-01 15:36 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-01 01:10 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-02 02:25 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-01 12:35 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-02 14:54 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-02 00:07 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-02 17:40 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-02 06:53 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-02 10:32 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-03 02:45 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-02 09:06 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-02 09:16 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-02 08:07 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-02 09:04 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-02 08:05 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-03 03:16 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-02 20:51 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-03 16:29 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-03 07:22 +0100
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 12:17 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-04 05:10 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 19:16 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-03 16:30 -0700
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-04 17:05 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-04 11:02 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-04 16:55 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-04 11:35 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-05 12:53 +1000
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-05 00:29 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-05 15:46 +1000
                Re: Surplus electricity "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-05 01:55 -0400
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-05 16:57 +1000
                Re: Surplus electricity Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-03-26 18:30 +0000
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-28 02:15 +1100
                Re: Surplus electricity Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-26 16:19 +1100
            Re: Surplus electricity Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-27 10:10 -0700
              Re: Surplus electricity Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-27 15:22 -0700
  Re: Surplus electricity Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 13:54 -0700

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