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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #406106

Re: spreadsheet ergonomics

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On 4/4/17, 6:14 PM, in article avx89zb.f8c9a@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
<owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:

> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 4/4/17, 3:38 PM, in article ahbiz003.buyr@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
>> <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>> ... 
>>>>> Here's a creation process for you:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://vid.me/pG0C
>>>>> 
>>>>> zero to 52000 tables in 2.57 seconds.  Each with locked labels
>>>>> and formulas.  Instantaneous jump to any table.
>>>> 
>>>> But you will not show the type work we have been doing with multiple tables
>>>> all showing and being interrelated and updating automatically?
>>> 
>>> I've already shown that.
>> 
>> Great... then point to the video where you created it by scratch (not
>> running a script where you have preset a single task).
> 
> I have asked you repeatedly why it is that you want a video of me
> typing in vim.  Still no answer.

I have repeatedly answered.

And it is now clear you will NEVER show something similar to this, but using
your tools:

    <https://youtu.be/YfvQb8cxTBg>

Creating, from scratch and zero preparation (other than to have a program
open and I can show that if you want!), multiple tables (some on the same
sheet and others not) and where the cells of any one table can reference the
cells of another... and just for fun an added chart. Whole thing (again,
with no preparation or pre-set scripting or anything else prepared for the
task) is about a minute.

Not shown, I admit, I shared it so you or anyone else could work with that
spreadsheet (though I could have it also tied to specific users or
passwords).

Now, of course, the tables I show there are just for demo purposes -- it is
not like that has any real-world value other then educational, so I also
shared this:

    <https://youtu.be/VzVKlou6byU>

More complex tables with combined cells and more complex formulas (though
still no major number crunching or the like), and I show the value of having
the multiple tables and color coding of formula references and more. I would
NOT expect you to recreate something like that just to show in COLA... it
would take more time than I would reasonably expect you to do.

But with the first one, hey, it is a minute or two and -- BOOM -- done. Not
like it is a big deal. Also, of course, you are under no obligation to do
so, but given the time you have spent showing how you can have related
tables and the like I think it is safe to say your tools simply do not allow
for that type of work.

And, again, nothing wrong with that. Heck, there are MANY spreadsheet tasks
where Numbers SUCKS. So, again, not putting you or sc down in any way...
just good to see what each does well.

Hey, maybe you can show some of the spreadsheet tasks you think sc handles
well... I am sure there are many you can think of where Numbers and even
Excel would just suck at.

>> For that matter, did you ever even get a set of tables on a single sheet
>> where you can update any table and have it flow through without flickering?
>> If so would love to see how.
> 
> You are aware that sc only presents one sheet at a time.  It is necessary
> to use multiple sheets to have floating tables.

Yes... I know of that limitation of it.

> This has been shown to you multiple times already, and, aside from the Mack
> fluff, ever functional aspect has been addressed.

What do you mean by "fluff" -- can you be specific?

>>>>>>>> With YOUR suggestion, with an open source tool, we saw the hazard: an
>>>>>>>> unknowing person could have lost data. Twice.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We saw you move the goalposts beyond the specifications.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah, I merely noted I wanted an open file to be renamed
>>>>> 
>>>>> And that specification was met.
>>>> 
>>>> Very, very poorly, sure (as shown by the context I have returned... which
>>>> you snipped). Really, you offered no REASONABLE solution.
>>> 
>>> You don't get to change the specification after the fact.
>> 
>> LOL! Yeah, no assuming you have enough common sense to figure out people do
>> not want to lose data. Repeatedly.
> 
> Where is the "common sense" in renaming an open file?

Has already been discussed MANY times with me giving specific examples of
when I have done so. Just off the top of my head:

* Downloaded a video and opened it... then realized it is was in the place I
store it nor with the name (or label) I prefer. No reason to close it just
to rename and move it (and add a label)!

* Opened files named "[Whatever] - New" and "[Whatever]" and, as I worked
with them, realize I had related files with a different naming scheme... and
saved in different folders. So renamed them to "[Whatever]" and "[Whatever]
- OLD" and also moved them to their correct folders.

Why in situations such as that, as well as any other similar one, would you
want to HAVE to close the file just to rename it or move it. That is a
pretty big limitation!

But all of this is off the topic of your failure to have your solution take
common sense into account.

>> Seriously, if you are claiming that concept goes over your head then you
>> must be the world's worst scripter.
> 
> I have also shown you a solution that does not lose data in other open
> files:
> 
> https://vid.me/XLwZ

Right... your solution for one program, not built in and never explained,
and with the video with bizarre zooming (curious why you did that... does
not really hurt it but just weird).

But it shows your thinking in terms of one program and not the system...
while showing something I did not expect you to so, sure, well done. Curious
why you never shared it... I suspect you had different instances of LO or
other weaknesses. If nothing else you cannot just drag and drop from your
file browser.

>>> It is your responsibility to detail everything you expect from a solution.
>> 
>> The assumption of basic common sense is included in everything I say.
> 
> A written specification represents the totality of the requirments.

So you do not assume and take into consideration common sense with your
work. Fair enough. That is just one other way we look at things differently.
For me common sense and thinking in terms of risks is important and just
comes naturally. For you that is not the case.


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

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Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 00:14 +0000
  Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 17:33 -0700
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 01:46 +0000
      Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 19:24 -0700
        Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 04:53 +0000
          Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 10:20 -0700
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 19:40 +0000
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:17 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 21:24 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:32 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 02:15 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 19:24 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 02:39 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 20:35 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 04:15 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 21:31 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 05:01 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 08:51 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 13:56 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 21:12 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 14:53 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 22:42 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:08 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 01:49 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:57 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 02:15 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 19:46 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 20:51 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 04:03 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:30 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 15:02 -0700
        Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 10:53 -0700
          Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 19:38 +0000
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 13:01 -0700
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 20:54 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:16 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 02:30 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 20:26 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 04:45 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 09:29 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 20:49 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 14:20 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-04 22:38 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:05 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 01:14 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 18:41 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 02:05 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 19:27 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 03:59 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 21:32 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 05:23 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 08:30 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 20:39 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 15:01 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 00:08 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 18:23 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 01:46 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 18:54 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 02:01 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 19:08 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2017-04-06 05:51 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 14:39 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 20:30 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 04:14 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-04 21:33 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 05:08 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 08:23 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:06 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 14:57 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 22:05 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 15:25 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 22:52 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 16:15 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 00:12 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 18:14 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 01:34 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 18:48 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 01:54 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 19:03 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-05 11:55 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 09:03 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:17 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 15:15 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 01:49 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 18:55 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 02:00 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-05 19:04 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Silver-Tongued Heel <sl@im.er> - 2017-04-06 08:48 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-05 22:01 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-05 22:17 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 12:38 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-06 10:46 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 02:44 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-06 09:51 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-06 14:26 +0000

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