Re: For sale...

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject	Re: For sale...
Date	2011-03-07 19:08 -0800
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<070320111908384915%nospam@nospam.invalid> (permalink)
References	(13 earlier) <060320111939111024%nospam@nospam.invalid> <il1bck$9cf$1@news.eternal-september.org> <timstreater-D2A7DE.10274307032011@news.individual.net> <070320111727431612%nospam@nospam.invalid> <timstreater-1A2619.23514807032011@news.individual.net>

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In article <timstreater-1A2619.23514807032011@news.individual.net>, Tim
Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> wrote:

> > > > The latest Nikon D3x (24.5MP) would be close enough in quality for my 
> > > > purposes. Unfortunately, I can't afford it.
> > > 
> > > And it weighs 1.2kg, that's 3 possibly 4 times the weight of my 90s 
> > > Pentax M-ZM which had all the features I needed and could also do 
> > > full-frame. I only ever used KodaChrome 2 and was perfectly satisfied 
> > > with it.
> > > 
> > > I'm still waiting for nospam to explain why there is this weight 
> > > disparity.
> > 
> > are you really comparing a nikon d3x pro dslr with a manual focus
> > pentax m-zm?? you've got to be kidding me.
> 
> You were the one who brought up the nikon, not me.

not in comparison to small dslrs i didn't.

the nikon d3x is about the same size as a nikon f5. the nikon d40 is
about the same size as a nikon fm. 

you do realize that slrs, both film and digital, come in a variety of
sizes, for a variety of purposes, right? 

comparing the lightest film slr against the heaviest digital slr is
flat out disingenuous.

> > let's compare the nikon d3x with the nikon f5 film camera, which was
> > nikon's top of the line film camera before digital. well look at that,
> > the nikon f5 film camera weighs 1210g while the nikon d3x weighs 1240g,
> > a difference of a whole 30 grams.
> 
> I do't want to compare it with that. I want to compare it (or any other 
> dslr) with my Pentax M-ZM. Why do you have such difficulty with this 
> concept? The train of thought is this:
> 
> 1) I have a Pentax M-ZM that weighed 350gm or so, had autowind, and 
> could take 35mm colour slide film. I had the (autofocus as it happens) 
> F1.4 50mm, and a much older F3.5 135mm and a 28mm F2.8.

and as i said, you have one of the lightest film cameras. most are
heavier than that. 

> 2) For some obscure reason KodaChrome has been discontinued, so I have 
> to look at a digital replacement.

the reason is not obscure at all. 

film is rapidly becoming a relic of history. kodachrome processing was
*very* complex, and prior to it's demise, only one facility in the
*world* was handling it. not even kodak was processing kodachrome
anymore. it won't be long before other films become difficult to find,
or maybe discontinued like kodachrome was. the stuff just ain't
selling.

> Bugger me if I don't find that they 
> typically weigh two or three times as much, for no good reason that I 
> can find, and much more if I want a 35mm sensor to match my Pentax M-ZM.

the reasons have already been explained, but basically, you get a much
more capable camera, as well as one with a lot more metal than plastic.

> > as i said before (and provided numbers), digital slrs are not
> > significantly bigger or heavier than their film counterparts, but like
> > everything, there are a few exceptions and you happen to have one.
> 
> No, you provided numbers that confirm that dslr's are typically two or 
> three times heavier than a camera I used to use, but by and large can no 
> longer use, and would like to replace with something that has similar 
> weight and functionality.

nope. i provided comparisons with similar cameras, such as the nikon fm
and fe class film slrs (both about the same size, wonderful cameras in
their day), versus the nikon d40 class cameras (low end, entry level
dslrs).

i'm really puzzled as to why weight is so critical. isn't image quality
important?

> > if weight is the only thing that matters, get the pentax.
> 
> Which pentax? I already own the M-ZM.

that one.

> > most
> > photographers choose cameras for reasons *other* than weight, such as
> > image quality, feature set, reliability and choice of lenses and
> > accessories. plus, any difference in weight is likely to be lost with
> > the lenses, because the lenses for most digital slrs are smaller and
> > lighter than the film equivalents,
> 
> This is true and it helps, but I'm considering the bodies.

and i'm pointing out the fallacy of that, because you need at least one
lens with the body and therefore should include its weight (and size).
an slr without a lens is not particularly useful.

> > and there's also no need to carry dozens of rolls of film either.
> 
> Well I've never done that. The only times I've had 30 or so rolls of 
> film with me that were in a handy carrier inside the handy vehicle we 
> were in (due to the fact that lions and cheetahs can run faster than I 
> can).

you still had to pack them. 30 rolls of film (assuming 36 exposures) is
1080 photos, which will easily fit on one sd card and can stay in the
camera at all times. depending on the camera and the size of the card
and the quality of the images, you can get quite a bit more than that
on a single card. extra cards slip into a pocket, without any bulges,
and no airport x-ray issues either.

how many photo opportunities did you miss by needing to stop and change
rolls of film?

> You appear to continue to be unable to explain why digital slr's weigh 
> so much.

you appear to not want to hear the answer.

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Thread

For sale... jeffob2008 <jeffobourdeau@gmail.com> - 2011-03-01 12:08 -0800
  Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-01 12:21 -0500
  Re: For sale... jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2011-03-02 16:53 +1300
    Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 07:44 -0500
      Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-02 12:54 +0000
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 09:03 -0500
          Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 09:52 -0500
            Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 10:31 -0500
              Re: For sale... Bill who putters <b2forewagner@snip.net> - 2011-03-02 18:13 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 11:42 +1100
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 19:52 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 12:01 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:58 -0800
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-02 23:12 -0500
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-03 08:20 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:53 -0800
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-03 08:25 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:15 -0800
            Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-02 15:38 +0000
              Re: For sale... shiva das <shiv@nataraja.invalid> - 2011-03-02 11:14 -0500
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-02 16:48 +0000
            Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 00:06 +0000
              Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 19:37 -0500
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:23 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:52 +1100
                Re: For sale... John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2011-03-06 21:46 -0800
              Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 16:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-02 20:45 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:04 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:51 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:45 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:15 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:38 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:58 +1100
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:25 -0500
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:32 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:42 +1100
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:51 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 12:04 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 11:35 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:43 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 12:27 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 04:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 14:38 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 16:33 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 11:57 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:40 +1100
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 17:52 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 12:01 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:50 +1100
                Re: For sale... Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 13:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 16:37 +1100
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:39 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:00 +1100
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:54 -0500
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 14:03 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:53 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
              Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 11:51 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:32 -0800
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-02 23:18 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:15 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:12 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:36 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:22 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:38 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-05 00:17 -0500
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 14:08 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 09:34 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-06 19:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-07 12:53 +1100
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 10:29 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 10:09 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 10:06 +1100
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-05 18:22 -0600
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-06 19:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-06 19:11 -0600
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 10:27 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 23:51 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 19:08 -0800
                Re: For sale... Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2011-03-08 02:03 +0000
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-08 10:38 +0000
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-08 12:19 +0000
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-08 12:51 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 08:23 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 13:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-09 15:13 +0000
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-09 16:04 +0000
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 13:44 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 08:23 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 14:04 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 19:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 15:20 -0800
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-07 12:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2011-03-07 06:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2011-03-07 17:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-08 20:31 +0000
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-07 22:23 -0600
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-08 20:31 +0000
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 13:22 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 06:06 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:35 +1100
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-05 09:54 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 15:26 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-04 19:12 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 15:08 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 03:36 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 15:41 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 14:08 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 09:29 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-06 03:02 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 14:59 +1100
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:36 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:55 +1100
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 13:56 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 06:26 +1100
        Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 07:40 -0800
        Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-02 12:59 -0500
          Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 10:05 -0800
      Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 07:22 -0800
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 10:34 -0500
      Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 04:44 +1100
        Re: For sale... Steve Fenwick <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 10:17 -0800
          Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-02 13:24 -0500
          Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 08:34 +1100
            Re: For sale... Steve Fenwick <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 16:36 -0800
              Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-03 08:41 -0500
          Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 00:29 +0000
            Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:47 -0500
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 15:53 -0500
          Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 08:56 +1100

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