Re: For sale...

From	dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject	Re: For sale...
Date	2011-03-03 18:42 +1100
Organization	albasani.net
Message-ID	<dorayme-3C6F11.18424003032011@hello.network> (permalink)
References	<IeSdnVKujp41xPPQnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@earthlink.com> <ikmm1f$9iu$1@news.eternal-september.org> <020320111639244487%nospam@nospam.invalid> <ikmrri$59t$1@news.albasani.net>

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In article <ikmrri$59t$1@news.albasani.net>,
 AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On Mar/2/2011 7:3924 PM, nospam wrote:
> > In article<ikmm1f$9iu$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Erilar
> > <drache@chibardun.netinvalid>  wrote:
> >
> >> I used Tri-X for 18 years as yearbook advisor/main photographer and so did
> >> my staffers, who were trained to use real cameras.
> >
> > digital cameras are very real.
> >
> >> I retired before
> >> digital got going, and that's what I use nowadays, but it still can't do
> >> some of the things our old Minolta SLRs and Tri-x could.
> >
> > oh yes it can, and quite a bit more.
> 
> 
> I don't suppose it counts as "more," but I lack the hand-eye 
> coordination to envision a picture, find it in the view-finder, and get 
> it onto film. 

I understand. But it sounds strange because of the way I worked 
for so long, at least in producing things for myself, for 
exhibitions, art etc. I would see things that catch my eye, I 
would hold up the camera and see though the lens the general area 
I want. I would shoot a lot of film, bracketing (changing f-stop 
and/or shutter speed) moving the frame a bit, getting close, 
going back, maybe changing a lens and taking more. I might take 3 
or I might take 20 shots. 

But the real work began in the darkroom. It is a slow and patient 
business. Talking generally of rolls of film from a days shoot, 
not just of one thing, I would average about two or three frames 
from about 5 or 6 rolls that were *even worth considering 
seriously* and I was well pleased to get one fine print, even if 
it took a box or more of paper to get it. 

Sometime it was easy and one or two sheets would get it perfect. 
If you get the negative really good, well exposed, it is easier 
to print. But getting the negative good and the composition good 
and close to full frame is a tricky thing. If you are the type 
that needs to get this right in the field in the least number of 
shots (like one!) then 35mm is probably not for you. Big format 
tripod work is for the perfectionist camera shooting types. With 
35mm, you learn to expose pretty good but you still take a lot of 
film (film is or was cheap) and you get lucky more easily. You 
see what you want by looking at negatives in the darkroom, by 
experience in looking at them projected on white card, by looking 
at contact sheets.

> But a digital camera shows me exactly what the picture 
> will look like, i. e., what I see on the screen is what I get. For 
> untalented me, that is a technological advance. Professional level 
> photographers may have no idea of the frustrations I experienced during 
> decades of my analog film inadequacies.

Or so it seems to you. A printed picture is a very different 
thing. Your last remarks are understandable but sound as if you 
have simple needs. The difference between what you see in a 
viewfinder in either a digital camera or a film SLR and a 24" or 
greater print in a nice frame on a wall is a big leap and not 
really smaller than between the latter and a 2" or 3' x same 
digital tv screen. It is imagination, trial and error and long 
hard work, and talent that can bridge the gap. If you can go out 
and gte pics easier and get them printed easier and to your 
satisfaction one way rather than another way, good for you!

-- 
dorayme

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For sale... jeffob2008 <jeffobourdeau@gmail.com> - 2011-03-01 12:08 -0800
  Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-01 12:21 -0500
  Re: For sale... jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2011-03-02 16:53 +1300
    Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 07:44 -0500
      Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-02 12:54 +0000
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 09:03 -0500
          Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 09:52 -0500
            Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 10:31 -0500
              Re: For sale... Bill who putters <b2forewagner@snip.net> - 2011-03-02 18:13 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 11:42 +1100
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 19:52 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 12:01 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:58 -0800
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-02 23:12 -0500
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-03 08:20 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:53 -0800
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-03 08:25 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:15 -0800
            Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-02 15:38 +0000
              Re: For sale... shiva das <shiv@nataraja.invalid> - 2011-03-02 11:14 -0500
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-02 16:48 +0000
            Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 00:06 +0000
              Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 19:37 -0500
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:23 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:52 +1100
                Re: For sale... John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2011-03-06 21:46 -0800
              Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 16:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-02 20:45 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:04 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:51 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:45 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:15 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:38 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:58 +1100
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:25 -0500
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:32 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:42 +1100
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:51 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 12:04 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 11:35 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:43 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 12:27 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 04:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 14:38 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 16:33 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 11:57 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:40 +1100
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 17:52 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 12:01 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:50 +1100
                Re: For sale... Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 13:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 16:37 +1100
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:39 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:00 +1100
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:54 -0500
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 14:03 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:53 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
              Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 11:51 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:32 -0800
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-02 23:18 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:15 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:12 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:36 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:22 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:38 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-05 00:17 -0500
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 14:08 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 09:34 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-06 19:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-07 12:53 +1100
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 10:29 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 10:09 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 10:06 +1100
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-05 18:22 -0600
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-06 19:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-06 19:11 -0600
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 10:27 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 23:51 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 19:08 -0800
                Re: For sale... Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2011-03-08 02:03 +0000
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-08 10:38 +0000
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-08 12:19 +0000
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-08 12:51 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 08:23 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 13:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-09 15:13 +0000
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-09 16:04 +0000
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 13:44 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 08:23 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 14:04 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 19:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 15:20 -0800
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-07 12:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2011-03-07 06:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2011-03-07 17:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-08 20:31 +0000
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-07 22:23 -0600
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-08 20:31 +0000
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 13:22 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 06:06 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:35 +1100
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-05 09:54 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 15:26 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-04 19:12 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 15:08 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 03:36 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 15:41 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 14:08 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 09:29 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-06 03:02 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 14:59 +1100
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:36 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:55 +1100
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 13:56 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 06:26 +1100
        Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 07:40 -0800
        Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-02 12:59 -0500
          Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 10:05 -0800
      Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 07:22 -0800
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 10:34 -0500
      Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 04:44 +1100
        Re: For sale... Steve Fenwick <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 10:17 -0800
          Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-02 13:24 -0500
          Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 08:34 +1100
            Re: For sale... Steve Fenwick <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 16:36 -0800
              Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-03 08:41 -0500
          Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 00:29 +0000
            Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:47 -0500
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 15:53 -0500
          Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 08:56 +1100

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