Re: For sale...

From	AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject	Re: For sale...
Date	2011-03-03 10:51 -0500
Organization	albasani.net
Message-ID	<ikode7$a3h$1@news.albasani.net> (permalink)
References	<IeSdnVKujp41xPPQnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@earthlink.com> <ikmm1f$9iu$1@news.eternal-september.org> <020320111639244487%nospam@nospam.invalid> <ikmrri$59t$1@news.albasani.net> <dorayme-3C6F11.18424003032011@hello.network>

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On Mar/3/2011 2:4240 AM, dorayme wrote:
> In article<ikmrri$59t$1@news.albasani.net>,
>   AV3<arvimide@earthlink.net>  wrote:
>
>> On Mar/2/2011 7:3924 PM, nospam wrote:
>>> In article<ikmm1f$9iu$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Erilar
>>> <drache@chibardun.netinvalid>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> I used Tri-X for 18 years as yearbook advisor/main photographer and so did
>>>> my staffers, who were trained to use real cameras.
>>>
>>> digital cameras are very real.
>>>
>>>> I retired before
>>>> digital got going, and that's what I use nowadays, but it still can't do
>>>> some of the things our old Minolta SLRs and Tri-x could.
>>>
>>> oh yes it can, and quite a bit more.
>>
>>
>> I don't suppose it counts as "more," but I lack the hand-eye
>> coordination to envision a picture, find it in the view-finder, and get
>> it onto film.
>
> I understand. But it sounds strange because of the way I worked
> for so long, at least in producing things for myself, for
> exhibitions, art etc. I would see things that catch my eye, I
> would hold up the camera and see though the lens the general area
> I want. I would shoot a lot of film, bracketing (changing f-stop
> and/or shutter speed) moving the frame a bit, getting close,
> going back, maybe changing a lens and taking more. I might take 3
> or I might take 20 shots.
>
> But the real work began in the darkroom. It is a slow and patient
> business. Talking generally of rolls of film from a days shoot,
> not just of one thing, I would average about two or three frames
> from about 5 or 6 rolls that were *even worth considering
> seriously* and I was well pleased to get one fine print, even if
> it took a box or more of paper to get it.
>
> Sometime it was easy and one or two sheets would get it perfect.
> If you get the negative really good, well exposed, it is easier
> to print. But getting the negative good and the composition good
> and close to full frame is a tricky thing. If you are the type
> that needs to get this right in the field in the least number of
> shots (like one!) then 35mm is probably not for you. Big format
> tripod work is for the perfectionist camera shooting types. With
> 35mm, you learn to expose pretty good but you still take a lot of
> film (film is or was cheap) and you get lucky more easily. You
> see what you want by looking at negatives in the darkroom, by
> experience in looking at them projected on white card, by looking
> at contact sheets.
>
>> But a digital camera shows me exactly what the picture
>> will look like, i. e., what I see on the screen is what I get. For
>> untalented me, that is a technological advance. Professional level
>> photographers may have no idea of the frustrations I experienced during
>> decades of my analog film inadequacies.
>
> Or so it seems to you. A printed picture is a very different
> thing. Your last remarks are understandable but sound as if you
> have simple needs. The difference between what you see in a
> viewfinder in either a digital camera or a film SLR and a 24" or
> greater print in a nice frame on a wall is a big leap and not
> really smaller than between the latter and a 2" or 3' x same
> digital tv screen. It is imagination, trial and error and long
> hard work, and talent that can bridge the gap. If you can go out
> and gte pics easier and get them printed easier and to your
> satisfaction one way rather than another way, good for you!
>


You revive my nightmares: taking pictures in a desert without even any 
shade in which to change film cartridges. My frustration was that after 
just three or four tries at a single picture, I couldn't remember which 
particular effort got the best shot, since it took days to get the 
pictures back from the film developer (no home dark room). I was happy 
with a collection of snap shots, without any ambition, even today, to 
make wall-suitable portraits from my snaps.


I don't derogate the talent and industry of more ambitious photographers 
than my miserable self. They instinctively compensate for camera 
inconsistencies. I just say that digital cameras solved my problems. I 
started getting the pictures I envisioned, reinforced by compliments. At 
breakfast every day, a digital picture frame regales me with a random 
series of a couple of hundred digital photos from my life and travels.


-- 
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>    ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>   ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/    ||
||    Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso  ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++

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For sale... jeffob2008 <jeffobourdeau@gmail.com> - 2011-03-01 12:08 -0800
  Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-01 12:21 -0500
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    Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 07:44 -0500
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                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 19:52 -0500
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                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:58 -0800
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-02 23:12 -0500
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-03 08:20 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:53 -0800
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-03 08:25 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:15 -0800
            Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-02 15:38 +0000
              Re: For sale... shiva das <shiv@nataraja.invalid> - 2011-03-02 11:14 -0500
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-02 16:48 +0000
            Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 00:06 +0000
              Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 19:37 -0500
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:23 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:52 +1100
                Re: For sale... John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2011-03-06 21:46 -0800
              Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 16:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-02 20:45 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:04 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:51 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:45 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:15 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:38 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:58 +1100
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:25 -0500
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:32 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:42 +1100
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:51 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 12:04 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 11:35 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:43 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 12:27 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 04:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 14:38 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 16:33 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 11:57 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:40 +1100
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 17:52 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 12:01 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:50 +1100
                Re: For sale... Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 13:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 16:37 +1100
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:39 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:00 +1100
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:54 -0500
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 14:03 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:53 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
              Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 11:51 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:32 -0800
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-02 23:18 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:15 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:12 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:36 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:22 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:38 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-05 00:17 -0500
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 14:08 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 09:34 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-06 19:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-07 12:53 +1100
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 10:29 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 10:09 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 10:06 +1100
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-05 18:22 -0600
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-06 19:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-06 19:11 -0600
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 10:27 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 23:51 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 19:08 -0800
                Re: For sale... Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2011-03-08 02:03 +0000
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-08 10:38 +0000
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-08 12:19 +0000
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-08 12:51 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 08:23 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 13:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-09 15:13 +0000
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-09 16:04 +0000
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 13:44 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 08:23 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 14:04 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 19:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 15:20 -0800
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-07 12:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2011-03-07 06:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2011-03-07 17:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-08 20:31 +0000
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-07 22:23 -0600
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-08 20:31 +0000
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 13:22 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 06:06 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:35 +1100
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-05 09:54 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 15:26 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-04 19:12 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 15:08 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 03:36 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 15:41 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 14:08 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 09:29 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-06 03:02 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 14:59 +1100
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:36 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:55 +1100
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 13:56 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 06:26 +1100
        Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 07:40 -0800
        Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-02 12:59 -0500
          Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 10:05 -0800
      Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 07:22 -0800
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 10:34 -0500
      Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 04:44 +1100
        Re: For sale... Steve Fenwick <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 10:17 -0800
          Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-02 13:24 -0500
          Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 08:34 +1100
            Re: For sale... Steve Fenwick <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 16:36 -0800
              Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-03 08:41 -0500
          Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 00:29 +0000
            Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:47 -0500
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 15:53 -0500
          Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 08:56 +1100

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