Re: For sale...

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject	Re: For sale...
Date	2011-03-03 03:12 -0800
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<030320110312589455%nospam@nospam.invalid> (permalink)
References	<IeSdnVKujp41xPPQnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@earthlink.com> <ikmm1f$9iu$1@news.eternal-september.org> <dorayme-65576A.11514603032011@hello.network> <020320111732265419%nospam@nospam.invalid> <dorayme-C17FAA.18154203032011@hello.network>

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In article <dorayme-C17FAA.18154203032011@hello.network>, dorayme
<dorayme@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> > > Film cameras were easier to use, quicker to focus and set for 
> > > stops and shutter speeds in all sorts of conditions.
> > 
> > nope. digital is faster in every way. a nikon d3s can shoot 11 fps. it
> > can also track moving subjects across the frame while maintaining
> > focus, using its 51 point autofocus system. no film camera can do that.
> > it can also shoot thousands of photos on a single card, without the
> > need to stop to change rolls of film.
> 
> Nope. These fancy pants things you are plucking out of the techno 
> babble world are not the main game. 

you said film cameras were easier to use, quicker to focus and set
stops and shutter speeds. they're not. i did pick one of the fastest
dslrs made to prove a point, but even lower end models are faster too. 

> The main game for 
> photographers who go out to take a nice shot is to see something 
> they want to photograph, mostly not fast moving but maybe a 
> little, to remove the lens cap and take one shot, maybe three to 
> bracket, maybe lots more as things change a little or not. 

all of which can be done with a digital camera, often more quickly than
with film. there have been a lot of advancements in the last 10-20
years.

> With the average manual good quality 35mm camera, you take the 
> lens cap off, you see your whole frame, you see the shutter speed 
> and the f-stop and you have proper controls for human hands for 
> these two simple functions, a ring that turns for the f-stop, and 
> often a lever that satisfyingly levers up and down; not ideal 
> techno bullshit robot inhuman fingers that have to have the 
> camera itself in full view while you grope around with one of a 
> million settings. 

yep, same with digital. with a digital slr, you hold it up to your eye,
just like a film slr, adjust whatever you want (including fully manual
if you so choose) and take the photos. they even take the same lenses
as film cameras did.

> > > And if you get to be very patient and 
> > > skilful with them, along with Photoshop, you might even get to 
> > > mimic your previous results with film. 
> > 
> > that would be like listening to a cd, but adding pops and clicks to
> > mimic what a vinyl record is like. maybe even stopping every 20 minutes
> > or so, because that's how much you could get on one side of a record.
> 
> Nope again. And even wronger. You are here choosing to add 
> unwanted inartistic features, faults even in the vinyl. 

wrong. digital has higher resolution, greater dynamic range and more
accurate colour than film did. this is something that can be
objectively measured. 

if you want to 'mimic film', then you are downgrading the potential
quality that is available with digital.

> > > My attitude is that digital is a different medium and one should 
> > > try hard to use it on its own terms. I miss film and film cameras.
> > 
> > digital is different, one which is more capable than film, but it works
> > pretty much the same way. 
> 
> If you eliminate the differences you get the similarities. Any 
> other tautologies?

you still set f/stops and shutter speeds, just like with film, but the
results are better with digital.

> > however, old mechanical cameras do have a
> > certain charm, even if they're entirely obsolete.
> 
> They are not entirely obsolete and in combination with bromides 
> they can do things digital cannot easily do.

such as what? anything you can do in a darkroom can be done in
photoshop much easier, faster and more consistently. there are also a
*lot* of things that can be done in photoshop that *can't* be done in
the darkroom.

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For sale... jeffob2008 <jeffobourdeau@gmail.com> - 2011-03-01 12:08 -0800
  Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-01 12:21 -0500
  Re: For sale... jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2011-03-02 16:53 +1300
    Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 07:44 -0500
      Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-02 12:54 +0000
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 09:03 -0500
          Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 09:52 -0500
            Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 10:31 -0500
              Re: For sale... Bill who putters <b2forewagner@snip.net> - 2011-03-02 18:13 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 11:42 +1100
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 19:52 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 12:01 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:58 -0800
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-02 23:12 -0500
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-03 08:20 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:53 -0800
                Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-03 08:25 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:15 -0800
            Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-02 15:38 +0000
              Re: For sale... shiva das <shiv@nataraja.invalid> - 2011-03-02 11:14 -0500
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-02 16:48 +0000
            Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 00:06 +0000
              Re: For sale... Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2011-03-02 19:37 -0500
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:23 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:52 +1100
                Re: For sale... John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2011-03-06 21:46 -0800
              Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 16:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-02 20:45 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:04 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:51 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:45 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:15 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:38 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:58 +1100
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:25 -0500
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:32 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:42 +1100
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:51 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 12:04 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 11:35 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:43 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 12:27 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 04:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 14:38 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 16:33 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 11:57 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 04:40 +1100
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-03 17:52 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 12:01 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:50 +1100
                Re: For sale... Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 13:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 16:37 +1100
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:39 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:16 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:00 +1100
                Re: For sale... AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2011-03-03 10:54 -0500
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 14:03 -0500
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 18:53 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
              Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 11:51 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 17:32 -0800
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-02 23:18 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:15 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 03:12 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 00:36 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-03 10:22 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 05:38 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-05 00:17 -0500
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 14:08 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 09:34 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-06 19:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-07 12:53 +1100
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 10:29 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 10:09 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 10:06 +1100
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-05 18:22 -0600
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-06 19:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-06 19:11 -0600
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 10:27 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-07 23:51 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 19:08 -0800
                Re: For sale... Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2011-03-08 02:03 +0000
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-08 10:38 +0000
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-08 12:19 +0000
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-08 12:51 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 08:23 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 13:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-03-09 15:13 +0000
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-09 16:04 +0000
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 13:44 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 08:23 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 14:04 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: For sale... "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2011-03-09 19:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-09 15:20 -0800
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-07 12:56 +1100
                Re: For sale... Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2011-03-07 06:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-07 17:27 -0800
                Re: For sale... John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2011-03-07 17:39 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-08 20:31 +0000
                Re: For sale... Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2011-03-07 22:23 -0600
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-08 20:31 +0000
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 13:22 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 06:06 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:35 +1100
                Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-05 09:54 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 15:26 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 18:34 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 13:24 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-04 19:12 +0000
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-04 15:08 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 03:36 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 15:41 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-05 14:08 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 09:29 +1100
                Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-05 16:25 -0800
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-06 03:02 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-06 14:59 +1100
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-05 11:36 +1100
                Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 18:55 +1100
                Re: For sale... Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2011-03-03 13:56 -0500
                Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-04 06:26 +1100
        Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 07:40 -0800
        Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-02 12:59 -0500
          Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 10:05 -0800
      Re: For sale... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 07:22 -0800
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 10:34 -0500
      Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 04:44 +1100
        Re: For sale... Steve Fenwick <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 10:17 -0800
          Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-02 13:24 -0500
          Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 08:34 +1100
            Re: For sale... Steve Fenwick <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-03-02 16:36 -0800
              Re: For sale... Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-03-03 08:41 -0500
          Re: For sale... Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2011-03-03 00:29 +0000
            Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-03 08:47 -0500
        Re: For sale... Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-03-02 15:53 -0500
          Re: For sale... dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-03-03 08:56 +1100

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