Re: Joy of this, Joy of that

From	D <nospam@example.net>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Joy of this, Joy of that
Date	2024-12-08 12:09 +0100
Organization	i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID	<e21a9685-5fd6-e919-b878-dc11b89eab89@example.net> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <vj1sb7$35uju$1@dont-email.me> <b1be1d8d-50fb-89d7-fdf3-2de13f461000@example.net> <vj24hp$38esk$2@dont-email.me> <7673fc62-cae1-213c-d6ed-2a8f943388df@example.net> <vj327s$3ehc7$1@dont-email.me>

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On Sun, 8 Dec 2024, Rich wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, Rich wrote:
>>
>>>> Ohh...  but that is not "raw" in my book.  I do that myself on
>>>> opensuse and I very seldom use yast.  So basically, what you are
>>>> saying is that it works like...  "linux"?  ;)
>>>
>>> Yes.  Slackware is the nearest to just being Linux of all the
>>> distros (that install Linux, some of the FreeBSD's may be similar).
>>> If your preference is to edit /etc/resolv.conf to adjust your
>>> default name server, and edit /etc/init.d to change the default
>>> bootup, and so forth, it is more what you may be looking for than
>>> the others (all of which add varing levels a "you are an idiot, here
>>> let me hold your hand via this custom GUI" system on top).
>>
>> Sounds great! =)
>>
>>>> Maybe I should add slackware back to the list then, since what you
>>>> are saying just sound exactly like how I like to manage my
>>>> machines!  =D
>>>
>>> Tis free to download, and you can install it into a VM if you wish
>>> to 'test out' at first (and don't have a spare machine to devote to
>>> 'testout').
>>>
>>> It also is one of the few left that is systemd free.  And instead of
>>> the SYSV infinite field of symlinks for init, Slackware uses BSD
>>> style rc.d scripts (actual scripts you can edit).  The provenance of
>>> SYSV sysmlink fields means it also will support those if you want,
>>> but the default is actual scripts that execute other scripts.
>>
>> Oh my...  it just keeps getting better and better!!  How come it
>> hasn't gotten any attention at all??
>
> Likely because 99% of the "computer using public" is *lost* without the
> "handholding GUI".
>
>> I've heard about devuan and antix, but how come none of those guys went to
>> slckware to escape their systemd problems?
>
> I can't answer that one.  You'd have to ask them.  I don't dabble in
> either.  First installed Slackware back when it was the "new and
> improved SLS" (Soft Landing Systems).  Have stuck with it since.
>
>>>> I'm happy I started as early with linux as I did.  I teach the
>>>> config file way to my students, and am furious when I learned that
>>>> the teacher who got the job after me, taught the students how to
>>>> manage linux with _only_ the GUI tools.  Revolting!  Also causing
>>>> them to miss out a lot about how the system actually works, and how
>>>> it was design to work.  =(
>>>
>>> And that teacher is turning out students, much like the MSCE
>>> students, who only "know Ubuntu" (assuming they used Ubuntu) and the
>>> "Ubuntu way" and if tossed into a "non Ubuntu" system, become lost,
>>> because they really did not learn how things worked behind the
>>> "lipstick on a pig GUI".
>>
>> Yep, this is the sad truth.  I, together with 2 colleagues, give a
>> cloud course that's after the linux course, and we do hard core
>> terminal work in that course.  We've discovered that since they have
>> a monkey as the linux teacher, we have to start from scratch in that
>> course, thus losing valuable time.  =(
>
> Yup.  If they learn the handholding GUI, all they know is that exact
> handholding GUI.  Flip them to a different GUI, or if V3 of that GUI
> changes, and they are lost again.
>
>> I will pray hard, that I manage to get back the linux course next
>> autumn.  That way I can prepare them properly and teach them what the
>> terminal, files, scripting, and text files is all about!  =)
>
> That will reduce the lost time in the 'cloud' course just to bring them
> up to speed to begin to operate.

True! I have another story from that school. My colleague is currently 
teaching basics of networking, and he instructed the school to prepare the 
students laptops with linux, so that he could then install GNS3 for labs.

Turned out they forgot, and that their IT admin only knows windows, so she 
was very angry that she had to work over time figuring out with youtube 
videos how to install linux on 43 laptops.

We lost a week in a 5 week course, and all students unhappy, and of course 
they blamed the teacher for it, and not the school. =/

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Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 21:36 +0000
  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 05:06 -0500
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:06 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-30 00:16 -0500
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 06:23 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:53 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:30 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 23:14 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 04:19 -0500
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 11:21 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-01 16:27 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:28 -0500
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:41 +0100
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 00:37 -0500
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 20:47 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:57 -0500
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 21:27 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:58 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:51 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:30 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:26 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:03 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:25 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:13 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:43 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:12 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:59 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:32 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:39 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:35 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:43 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:12 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-08 03:02 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:09 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-08 16:33 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 18:19 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:49 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:09 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-08 04:45 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:53 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 03:05 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:26 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:49 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 10:15 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:40 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 12:44 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:47 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:30 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:24 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
                Re: The Joy Of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 00:03 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:19 +0100
                Re: The Joy Of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:36 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:41 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:29 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:40 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 04:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:06 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:27 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:40 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 02:05 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 13:39 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 01:22 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:28 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:58 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:53 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:29 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 20:09 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:23 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:09 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:39 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 04:41 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:50 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:07 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:52 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:06 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:38 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:49 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-13 04:56 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-13 02:20 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 08:38 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:42 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:41 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 11:32 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:01 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:48 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:40 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:15 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:09 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:17 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:34 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-14 05:18 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 13:08 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:51 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:15 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-09 11:39 -0800
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 20:22 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:52 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:07 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:22 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-12 08:13 -0800
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-13 01:55 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 08:30 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 07:53 -0800
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:45 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:38 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:14 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:53 +0100
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:13 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:28 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-05 20:49 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:33 -0500
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 07:54 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 02:44 -0500
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:42 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-30 00:19 -0500
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 06:22 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:39 -0500
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 09:03 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 11:08 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 20:46 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-02 07:13 +1000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 23:26 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 01:06 +0000

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