Re: Nuclear plants.

From	The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc, alt.comp.os.windows-11
Subject	Re: Nuclear plants.
Date	2025-09-25 13:47 +0100
Organization	A little, after lunch
Message-ID	<10b3dkr$8nn9$8@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(11 earlier) <10atuhj$2tidd$15@dont-email.me> <68d333e6@news.ausics.net> <8vvdqlxsif.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <10b30b0$5u19$14@dont-email.me> <rslfqlxchn.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 25/09/2025 12:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-09-25 11:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 24/09/2025 21:12, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2025-09-24 01:57, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>> In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 22/09/2025 23:55, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In particular when the 1960s reactors were built the regulatory
>>>>> framework was very light and governments wanted them built,. The real
>>>>> death knell was Germany, the Green party, proportional representation,
>>>>> and Chernobyl.
>>>>
>>>>  From what I remember "Germany" was largely a reaction to Fukushima.
>>>
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>> It was my turning point, and that of many people.
>>>
>>> When Chernobyl exploded we though: that's Russian inefficiency. 
>>> Communists are corrupt and imbecile. Then years later comes Fukushima 
>>> disaster. No communists there to blame. State of the art "western" 
>>> industry.
>>>
>>
>> The tsunami killed 20,000 people
>> No one died at the nuclear plant.
> 
> There is long term radiation disease and deaths to account for.
> 
>> The safety systems all performed as designed.
>> There was no disaster.
> 
> Oh yes, there was.
> 
>> It was a very old design of reactor indeed
>> It simply had not been designed for a once in a thousand years tsunami.
> 
> Oh. So now you tell me to trust other designs, that they will be "safe"? 
> That _nothing_ bad will ever happen?
> 

You are being irrational about this Carlos.

I do not understand why.

Even WITH 3MI, Chernobyl and Fukushima, of which only Chernobyl actually 
killed people, due to the complete lack of a secondary containment 
vessel that has been *standard practice* on Western reactors since the 
*very first* ones that were built,  nuclear power is the *safest form of 
generation there is*.

That is the *data*

Speculating from a position of complete ignorance of the engineering and 
radiological risk about what *might* happen belongs in Hollywood, not in 
a discussion between educated people with a technical background

Your arguments are pure metaphysics, God *could* indeed slice open the 
core of a reactor and create another Chernobyl, but nothing known to 
science can. Maybe an asteroid strike. But if that happens a nuclear 
radiation leak would be the least of my concerns, if indeed I was alive 
to have any.

And as we now know, Chernobyl, which was as bad as it is possible to 
get, ultimately wasn't nearly as bad as it was predicted to be by people 
paid to tell lies about nuclear power.

I live about 30 miles from the UKs largest nuclear power station. 
Anything big and bad enough to smash its pressure vessel  and its 
containment vessel would be either an act of war or a natural disaster 
both so great that,  as in Fukushima, the reactor loss would be the 
least of my worries.

It is faux logic employed by only ArtStudents™ of the more mendacious 
sort that say that 'because you cannot prove to me that god does not 
exist, therefore my belief that he does is not only reasonable, but correct'

For which we must merely substitute 'major nuclear power station 
accident resulting in total exposure of the reactor core to the air and 
subsequent spread of radiation' plus 'some unspecified thing that makes 
something even worse than Chernobyl possible'

Show me how any power station accident could be *worse* than Chernobyl, 
and show me how even a Chernobyl style event *could* take place with any 
Western reactor design and I might give your position some credence.

But you cant. And you dont even want to.
Ignorance is bliss.

-- 
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the 
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

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Re: The "Standards" Game not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-09-22 09:17 +1000
  Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-22 11:46 +0100
    Re: The "Standards" Game Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-22 16:05 -0400
      Re: The "Standards" Game Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-23 00:07 +0000
        Re: The "Standards" Game rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-23 03:03 +0000
        Re: The "Standards" Game Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-23 21:03 +1000
          Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 13:35 +0100
          Re: The "Standards" Game Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-23 15:23 +0000
            Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 17:30 +0100
              Re: The "Standards" Game Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-23 18:03 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-23 18:29 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-23 22:17 +0200
                Re: The "Standards" Game Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-24 18:43 +0000
              Re: The "Standards" Game "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-23 22:15 +0200
              Re: The "Standards" Game "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-23 22:13 +0200
              Re: The "Standards" Game rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-24 03:06 +0000
            Re: The "Standards" Game Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-26 23:28 +1000
      Re: The "Standards" Game Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2025-09-22 18:17 -0600
        Re: The "Standards" Game Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-23 21:23 +1000
          Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 13:37 +0100
            Re: The "Standards" Game "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-23 22:21 +0200
              Re: The "Standards" Game Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-23 14:31 -0700
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-24 01:29 +0100
                Re: The "Standards" Game rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-24 02:59 +0000
                Submarine testing. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-24 21:54 +0200
              Re: The "Standards" Game Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-23 21:39 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-24 01:00 +0200
                Re: The "Standards" Game Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-24 05:05 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-24 01:29 +0100
              Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-24 01:28 +0100
                Re: The "Standards" Game Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-24 05:06 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-24 22:26 +0200
                Re: The "Standards" Game Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-28 22:52 +1000
                Re: The "Standards" Game Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-28 12:00 -0400
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-28 17:34 +0100
                Re: The "Standards" Game Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-29 23:36 +1000
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 15:45 +0100
                Re: The "Standards" Game Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-28 18:29 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-09-29 08:54 +1000
                Re: The "Standards" Game Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-28 22:51 -0400
                Re: The "Standards" Game Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-29 23:46 +1000
                Re: The "Standards" Game Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-10-04 09:50 +0000
                Re: The "Standards" Game Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-04 14:51 -0400
                Opening a submarine "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-24 22:02 +0200
                Re: Opening a submarine Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-24 15:26 -0700
                Re: Opening a submarine rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-24 23:31 +0000
                Re: Opening a submarine "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:16 +0200
                Re: Opening a submarine The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 09:53 +0100
                Re: Opening a submarine "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:23 +0200
                Re: Opening a submarine The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:20 +0100
                Re: Opening a submarine "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 22:26 +0200
                Re: Opening a submarine The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 10:35 +0100
                Re: Opening a submarine "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-26 13:34 +0200
                Re: Opening a submarine The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 12:36 +0100
                Re: Opening a submarine rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-25 17:23 +0000
                Re: Opening a submarine "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 22:31 +0200
                Re: Opening a submarine rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-26 04:18 +0000
          Re: The "Standards" Game rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-23 16:44 +0000
            Re: The "Standards" Game Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-30 00:02 +1000
      Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 11:24 +0100
    Re: The "Standards" Game not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-09-23 08:55 +1000
      Re: The "Standards" Game Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-23 00:07 +0000
        Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 12:17 +0100
      Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 11:58 +0100
        Re: The "Standards" Game not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-09-24 09:57 +1000
          Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-24 01:35 +0100
            Re: The "Standards" Game Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2025-09-24 12:51 +1000
          Re: The "Standards" Game Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-24 05:06 +0000
            Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-24 11:41 +0100
          Re: The "Standards" Game Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-09-24 13:49 +0100
            Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-24 15:21 +0100
              Re: The "Standards" Game Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-09-25 10:10 +0100
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 10:43 +0100
                Re: The "Standards" Game Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-09-25 13:16 +0100
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 14:09 +0100
                Re: The "Standards" Game Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-09-26 22:01 +0100
                Re: The "Standards" Game not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-09-26 09:35 +1000
                Re: The "Standards" Game The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 10:56 +0100
          Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-24 22:12 +0200
            Re: Nuclear plants. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-24 15:20 -0700
              Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 10:11 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-25 07:25 -0400
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 12:58 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-25 08:11 -0700
                Re: Nuclear plants. knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-25 13:19 -0400
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 19:00 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-26 04:53 +0000
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 11:10 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 19:22 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-26 20:23 +0200
                Re: Nuclear plants. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-26 17:34 -0400
                Re: Nuclear plants. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-26 16:36 +0000
                Re: Nuclear plants. Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2025-10-03 08:59 +1000
                Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-03 14:20 +0200
                Re: Nuclear plants. Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2025-10-04 15:12 +1000
                Re: Nuclear plants. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-04 02:01 -0400
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-04 08:02 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-04 08:01 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-04 04:59 -0400
                Re: Nuclear plants. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-25 19:06 -0400
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 10:51 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-01 21:52 +1000
                Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-01 14:28 +0200
                Re: Nuclear plants. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-01 12:44 +0000
                Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-01 19:26 +0200
                Re: Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-02 01:03 +0000
                Re: Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-02 13:45 +0200
                Re: Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-02 18:47 +0000
                Re: Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-02 21:59 +0200
                Re: Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-02 22:11 +0200
                Re: Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-02 22:09 +0000
                Re: Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-10-02 20:55 +0000
                Re: Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-02 22:07 +0000
                Re: Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-10-02 06:40 +0000
                Re: Orbital mechanics. [Was: Nuclear plants.] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-02 11:47 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-01 09:20 -0700
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 18:50 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-26 13:43 +0200
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 13:04 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-26 20:24 +0200
              Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:29 +0200
                Re: Nuclear plants. Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-09-25 12:53 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:48 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:26 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 20:44 +0200
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 10:21 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-26 13:49 +0200
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 13:06 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-25 08:17 -0700
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 18:54 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-25 18:07 +0000
                Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 20:48 +0200
                Re: Nuclear plants. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-26 04:33 +0000
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 10:26 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-27 07:45 +0100
                OT: Re: Nuclear plants. Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-27 10:09 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-27 02:30 +0000
                Re: Nuclear plants. not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-09-27 10:16 +1000
                Re: Nuclear plants. Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-02 22:28 +1000
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-02 13:41 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-25 13:51 -0700
                Re: Nuclear plants. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-26 04:47 +0000
              Re: Nuclear plants. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:25 -0400
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 19:06 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-26 04:56 +0000
                Re: Nuclear plants. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-25 22:52 -0700
                Re: Nuclear plants. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-26 06:47 +0000
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 11:24 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-26 09:34 -0700
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 11:23 +0100
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-26 11:22 +0100
                Re: OT: Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-27 12:52 +0100
                OT: Re: Nuclear plants. Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-27 10:32 +0100
            Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 10:00 +0100
              Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:33 +0200
                Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-25 13:47 +0100
                OT: Re: Nuclear plants. Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-27 09:45 +0100
                Re: OT: Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-27 12:36 +0100
                Re: OT: Re: Nuclear plants. Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 11:24 +0100
                Re: OT: Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 11:42 +0100
                Re: OT: Re: Nuclear plants. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-10-04 10:52 +0000
                Re: OT: Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-04 12:29 +0100
                Re: OT: Re: Nuclear plants. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-04 15:10 +0000
                Re: OT: Re: Nuclear plants. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-04 09:59 -0700
                Re: OT: Re: Nuclear plants. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-04 18:49 +0100
                Re: OT: Re: Nuclear plants. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-03 14:14 +0200

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