Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #26042

Re: Java vs C++

From	Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Java vs C++
Date	2011-02-06 16:45 +0100
Organization	InterNetNews at News.BelWue.DE (Stuttgart, Germany)
Message-ID	<iimfm4$t5f$1@news.belwue.de> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <4d4d8322$0$41117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <iil53i$q34$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <iil5ed$10m$1@news.eternal-september.org> <iil74u$rac$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <iil9uk$b6m$1@news.eternal-september.org>

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Joshua Cranmer wrote:
> On 02/05/2011 11:13 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> They are different things in Java as well.
> 
> The hell they aren't. In Java, there is only one instance of 
> LinkedList::add(T object). In C++, there are as many instances of 
> std::list<T>::front as times you use it.

I would say that's an implementation detail. A compiler/optimizer could 
check how many different implementations are needed and could merge 
those that are identical.

Besides that, where you use an object in java, one would use a pointer 
or a reference in C++, and hence the code would be identical, allowing a 
good compiler to merge the implementations. C++ and java are quite 
different in their tradition how to use types, or what types are. Java 
has two sorts of types: First class citizens like int or double that are 
copied, and second class citizens like classes that are referenced. C++ 
doesn't have that, objects are objects and ints and classes are handled 
alike.

> Try, for example, implementing both List<String> and List<Character> in 
> the same class. Java will tell you that you cannot do it. C++, on the 
> other hand, wouldn't bat an eye.

True.

>> The only time they become the
>> same thing is in “erasures” and “raw types”, which are backward-
>> compatibility mechanisms introduced to avoid breaking existing code that
>> doesn’t know about generics.
> 
> I think Java would likely have gone with much the same syntax even if 
> generics had been introduced in the beginning.

That's really a speculation. One could also speculate that if java would 
have used or required generics from the beginning, they would be closer 
to C++ templates and would not use type erasure; instead, they would be 
parametrized classes as they are in C++. It's really speculation.

Greetings,

	Thomas

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Thread

Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-06 00:15 +1300
  Re: Java vs C++ Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-02-07 16:21 +0800
  Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 15:23 -0500
  Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Heike Svensson <hsvensson.1093x1_q@hotmail.nospam.com.please> - 2011-02-10 09:35 -0500
    Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-02-10 17:21 -0800
  Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 12:28 +1300
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-07 19:44 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 15:53 +1300
      Re: Java vs C++ Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-02-08 10:25 +0000
        Re: Java vs C++ Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-02-08 07:53 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-02-08 10:26 +1100
        Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-08 16:17 +1300
          Re: Java vs C++ Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-02-08 16:51 +1100
      Re: Java vs C++ Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-02-06 22:06 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2011-02-06 22:42 -0800
      Re: Java vs C++ Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-02-07 21:20 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 22:07 -0500
        Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 19:07 +1300
  Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 14:55 +1300
    Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-02-10 21:58 +1100
      Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-02-10 17:23 -0800
        Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> - 2011-02-12 05:40 -0500
      Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-02-10 06:28 -0800
        Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> - 2011-02-10 09:32 -0500
      Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Heike Svensson <hsvensson.1093x1_q@hotmail.nospam.com.please> - 2011-02-13 11:04 -0500
      Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> - 2011-02-10 07:00 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 21:15 -0500
      Re: Troll warning Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> - 2011-02-09 17:02 -0500
        Re: Troll warning Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> - 2011-02-13 11:40 -0500
      Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-02-09 15:48 +1100
        Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-02-09 00:15 -0500
          Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-02-09 07:43 -0800
          Re: Troll warning Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> - 2011-02-09 16:29 -0500
            Re: Troll warning "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-02-09 13:52 -0800
          Re: Troll warning Nigel Wade <nmw-news@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2011-02-09 13:12 +0000
            Re: Troll warning Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-02-09 08:22 -0500
            Re: Troll warning Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> - 2011-02-09 16:28 -0500
          Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-02-09 07:46 -0500
          Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-02-09 07:41 -0800
      Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-07 22:13 -0500
        Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-11 13:11 +1300
      Re: Java vs C++ Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2011-02-08 09:00 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-02-08 14:13 +1100
        Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-08 20:31 +1300
        Re: [OT] Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-02-08 16:53 +1100
          Re: Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-08 20:32 +1300
        [OT] Intel architecture (Was: Java vs C++) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-02-07 23:19 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-02-07 18:58 +0100
        Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-07 19:59 -0500
        Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-08 15:59 +1300
      Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-07 22:09 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-08 15:57 +1300
  Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-08 09:22 +1300
    Re: Java vs C++ Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-02-07 17:25 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-08 16:08 +1300
  Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 12:24 +1300
    Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 15:03 +1300
      Re: Java vs C++ Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-02-06 21:18 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 21:26 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 20:15 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 15:55 +1300
  Re: Java vs C++ "javax.swing.JSnarker" <gharriman@boojum.mit.edu> - 2011-02-06 19:54 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2011-02-07 14:57 +0100
  Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 20:50 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-08 09:47 +1300
  Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-08 16:00 +1300
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-07 22:07 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-02-06 21:22 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-02-07 15:54 +0800
  Re: Java vs C++ Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2011-02-07 01:04 +0100
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 20:26 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 19:09 +1300
        Re: Java vs C++ Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-02-07 07:29 -0500
          Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-07 19:49 -0500
        Re: Java vs C++ "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2011-02-06 22:52 -0800
    Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 13:32 +1300
  Re: Java vs C++ Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-02-05 09:26 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-02-06 14:30 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 14:52 +1300
    Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 15:11 +1300
      Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-08 09:48 +1300
        Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-07 20:00 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 21:22 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 21:05 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2011-02-06 16:35 +0100
    Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 15:51 +1300
      Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 22:06 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 15:01 +1300
      Re: Java vs C++ Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2011-02-07 14:53 +0100
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-07 19:52 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-02-06 13:09 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2011-02-07 00:55 +0100
    Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 15:00 +1300
      Re: Java vs C++ Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-02-06 21:20 -0500
        Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 15:52 +1300
      Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 21:25 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 20:29 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2011-02-07 00:57 +0100
    Re: Java vs C++ Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-02-06 12:57 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2011-02-06 10:09 -0800
      Re: Java vs C++ "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2011-02-06 12:07 -0800
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 15:22 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2011-02-06 08:11 -0800
    Re: Java vs C++ Ken Wesson <kwesson@gmail.com> - 2011-02-07 04:41 +0100
  Re: Java vs C++ Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-02-06 20:42 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2011-02-07 21:03 -0800
    Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 14:51 +1300
    Re: Java vs C++ Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2011-02-07 20:43 -0800
  Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 12:54 +1300
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 21:08 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 15:10 +1300
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 19:57 -0500
      Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 14:51 +1300
  Re: Java vs C++ Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-02-05 09:24 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 09:28 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 20:39 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 15:20 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-02-06 10:55 -0800
  Re: Java vs C++ Pitch <mail@fake.info> - 2011-02-05 13:01 +0100
    Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-06 01:24 +1300
  Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-05 09:38 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-02-06 21:12 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 12:26 +1300
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 15:27 -0500
    Re: Java vs C++ Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2011-02-06 16:45 +0100
    Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 20:51 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-05 09:32 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Jef <e70838@gmail.com> - 2011-02-09 04:34 -0800
  Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 21:12 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-02-07 14:53 +1300
  Re: Java vs C++ Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-02-06 09:30 -0500
  Re: Java vs C++ Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-02-05 15:02 +0100
  Re: Java vs C++ Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-02-05 10:49 -0500

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