Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!)

From	Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!)
Date	2013-03-27 22:19 +0100
Organization	1&1 Internet AG
Message-ID	<kivnoj$187$1@online.de> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <kiel2n$586$1@speranza.aioe.org> <puudnfemKu_ZZtfMnZ2dnUVZ_h-dnZ2d@supernews.com> <kih2fv$7v2$1@speranza.aioe.org> <L96dnWBj9a2GvNHMnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Mar27.182552@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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Anton Ertl wrote:

> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>I think that opinion is nonsense.  C looks superficially simple, but
>>it's not.  An awful lot of programmers have a naive view of the
>>semantics of C.
> 
> The problem is not the programmers, but some of the compiler writers.

Recent news: GCC 4.8 managed to break two SPEC 2006 benchmarks: 464.h264ref 
and 416.gamess.  The GCC people understand the C standard as entitlement for 
the compiler writer to break real-world programs without good reasons.

We had that thing some time ago, when GCC broke looks like

for(i=1; i>0; i+=i) count++; // count bits in a word

and converted that to an infinite loop, as the standard says "there is an 
ambiguous condition on integer overflow."  Yes, there is, in theory.  In 
practice, there are two's complement systems without overflow trap, and on 
these machines, the semantics of the loop is well-defined.  It does 
overflow, and by doing so, i is no longer >0.

IMHO, the GCC compiler people misread the standard.  This is addressing the 
"portable programmer", as we call it: As programmer, you need to know that 
some obscure architectures will not run your loop as intended.  But you 
probably don't care, as you only target two's complement.

This does *not* address the compiler writer in the same sense.  If your 
machine model, i.e. the code you generate for, does something well-defined 
on overflow, you simply can't optimize the check away.  If it does trap, you 
can.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 08:52 -0700
  Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-17 10:41 -0700
    Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 11:08 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-17 08:52 -1000
        Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 12:28 -0700
          Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-17 13:09 -0700
            Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 13:25 -0700
              Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-17 13:53 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-17 23:31 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-18 02:13 -0700
              Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations  (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-19 16:45 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations  (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-03-28 18:58 -0400
            Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-17 23:27 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-18 02:14 -0700
          Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-03-18 00:22 +0200
            Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Sieur de Bienville <morrimichael@gmail.com> - 2013-03-20 12:27 -0700
          Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-17 16:19 -1000
            Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 00:45 -0700
              Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-19 10:34 -1000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-19 13:49 -0700
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-17 13:39 -0700
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 14:42 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-17 14:49 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2013-03-18 11:02 +0100
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 15:11 -0700
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-17 21:40 -0400
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-18 04:26 -0500
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-18 15:46 +0100
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-19 04:15 -0400
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-19 05:03 -0500
        Re: INTERLUDE SUMMARY  --- Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-19 04:07 -0700
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-03-19 20:56 +0200
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 21:03 +0000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:53 -0400
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 01:07 -0700
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-18 01:53 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 02:32 -0700
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-18 02:45 -0700
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 03:28 -0700
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-18 10:20 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-18 18:23 +0000
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 10:19 -0700
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-18 10:44 -1000
      And what about locals? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-18 23:28 +0000
        Re: And what about locals? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-03-19 01:20 +0200
        Re: And what about locals? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-18 17:17 -1000
          Re: And what about locals? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-03-19 00:42 -0700
            Re: And what about locals? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 10:06 +0000
            Re: And what about locals? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-19 12:53 -0700
          Re: And what about locals? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-19 09:46 +0000
          Re: And what about locals? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 11:52 +0000
        Re: And what about locals? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-19 16:08 +0000
          Re: And what about locals? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-19 22:40 +0100
            Re: And what about locals? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 11:43 +0000
              Re: And what about locals? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 19:05 +0100
                Re: And what about locals? "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-04-06 12:00 +0000
                Re: And what about locals? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-08 18:38 +0200
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 14:24 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-18 11:59 -1000
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 15:42 -0400
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 15:04 -0700
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 15:22 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-19 04:07 -0400
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-19 12:49 +0000
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:33 -0400
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-20 19:52 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-21 05:53 -0400
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 10:30 -0400
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 09:32 -0700
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-08 19:54 +0200
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 09:58 -0400
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 14:27 +0000
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-19 08:02 -0700
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-19 08:07 -1000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 20:50 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:47 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-20 10:28 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-20 09:34 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-20 18:41 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 00:07 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 00:16 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-21 00:42 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-20 21:55 -1000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-21 16:22 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 10:59 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:05 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 04:42 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-21 10:54 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-21 16:37 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-22 08:34 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-22 10:44 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-22 21:00 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-22 21:04 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:34 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-06 04:05 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 17:11 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-08 19:47 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-22 18:10 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 10:44 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-05 22:12 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-06 02:46 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-08 17:53 +0200
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-19 20:30 +0100
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 21:05 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 01:58 +0100
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:39 -0400
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-06 04:07 +0200
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:43 -0400
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 05:06 -0500
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 10:45 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 11:08 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 17:40 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 13:25 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, r kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2013-03-21 05:42 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-21 18:14 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 15:05 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 15:48 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 12:00 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-31 12:36 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-01 04:41 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-01 14:12 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-21 18:46 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-21 05:51 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-21 04:04 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 03:15 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-22 00:16 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 04:11 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 07:21 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-21 17:45 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 15:13 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-27 17:38 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-27 13:23 -0500
                Language for implementing other languages (was: Algorithm design ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 11:08 +0000
                Re: Language for implementing other languages Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-30 08:50 -0700
                Re: Language for implementing other languages anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-31 13:15 +0000
                Re: Language for implementing other languages Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-31 08:03 -0700
                Re: Language for implementing other languages Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 11:08 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 03:52 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-22 04:15 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-24 15:03 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-24 14:36 -1000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-25 05:05 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-25 12:02 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-25 07:26 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-25 08:25 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-29 18:09 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 04:52 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 10:36 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 10:58 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-30 09:40 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-29 18:13 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-29 18:12 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-27 17:25 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-27 22:19 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-28 11:19 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 07:19 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-28 17:58 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 16:22 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-29 02:06 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-29 04:23 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-28 15:41 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-28 18:00 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 16:26 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-29 14:11 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-29 14:53 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-29 08:49 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-29 16:54 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-30 13:06 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-31 11:36 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-01 02:18 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-31 19:33 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-01 16:18 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-01 11:17 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-02 04:30 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-01 15:54 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, ro kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2013-04-01 14:54 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 13:08 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-02 16:00 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-02 16:47 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-03 11:27 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-23 01:57 -0400
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:45 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-06 03:00 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-08 16:11 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-08 15:43 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:49 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-09 04:02 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-09 07:03 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-09 04:04 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 14:34 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-09 00:02 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-09 07:06 +0000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 10:23 +0000
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 15:13 -0400
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 15:27 -0400
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 15:02 -0700
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:52 -0400
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-05 13:22 -1000
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-06 12:34 -1000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 02:39 -0700
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-07 09:11 -1000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:48 -0400
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:51 -0400
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations  (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-19 17:38 +0000
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Michael L Gassanenko <m_l_g3@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-21 04:53 -0700

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