Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!)

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!)
Date	2013-04-01 15:54 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2013Apr1.175457@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <7xzjxm9pg2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <2013Mar29.175455@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <7xvc88vei4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <kjajnt$30k$2@online.de> <7xwqsnkmj8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

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Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:
>Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>> What's your problem?  (x-1) > x if there is a wraparound.
>
>True if the cell size is equal to the int size, but in that case
>comparing to INT_MAX works fine.  Maybe also if the cell size is equal
>to the short size (SHRT_MAX), and all the other sizes for which the
>cpu sets the carry flag.

The carry flag does not have anything to do with this code.

>If the cell size is something like 18 bits
>(e.g. you're emulating a GA processor), what are you going to do?

Gforth does not emulate the F18A, it's a Forth system for the CPU it
runs on.  A cell is as wide as an address.

>C is a relatively low level language but surely not a portable
>assembler.

It used to be, as evidenced by many programming language
implementations that compile through C or that were implemented in
some other way on top of C.  GNU C used to be even better for this
purpose.

>Double-width integer multiplication is a classic example of
>something hard to write in C,

Actually easier to write in GNU C than in assembly language: a*b,
where a and b have double-width types.  The only problem is that the
double-width type is no longer supported on all targets, but that was
not the case originally (up to about 1992).

> coroutines are another,

Yes, there are some tricks that have been tried, but in general, C is
limited in what control structures you can implement.  You can do
anything within a function, but if you don't want to put everything in
one function, it has to be mapped to C functions, and setjmp/longjmp.
Gforth puts the engine in one function, so we can implement coroutines
without problem.  Another way to deal with the problem is to do the
control flow that does not fit C through a kind of interpreter (which
can do anything) and that calls functions for things that fit the C
model.

Funnily, things like LLVM and GNU Lightning that have been designed as
intermediate representations for programming languages have the same
problem.

>SIMD vector
>arithmetic is another still.

http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Vector-Extensions.html

That's not so important for implementing most programming languages,
though.

> Maybe you want qhasm:
>
>  http://cr.yp.to/qhasm.html

Just from looking at the first line, I very much doubt that.

However, it links to <http://cr.yp.to/qhasm/20050129-portable.txt>,
and the first few paragraphs explain what Bernd meant.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

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Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 10:19 -0700
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-18 10:44 -1000
    And what about locals? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-18 23:28 +0000
      Re: And what about locals? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-03-19 01:20 +0200
      Re: And what about locals? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-18 17:17 -1000
        Re: And what about locals? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-03-19 00:42 -0700
          Re: And what about locals? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 10:06 +0000
          Re: And what about locals? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-19 12:53 -0700
        Re: And what about locals? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-19 09:46 +0000
        Re: And what about locals? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 11:52 +0000
      Re: And what about locals? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-19 16:08 +0000
        Re: And what about locals? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-19 22:40 +0100
          Re: And what about locals? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 11:43 +0000
            Re: And what about locals? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 19:05 +0100
              Re: And what about locals? "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-04-06 12:00 +0000
                Re: And what about locals? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-08 18:38 +0200
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 14:24 -0700
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-18 11:59 -1000
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 15:42 -0400
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 15:04 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 15:22 -0700
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-19 04:07 -0400
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-19 12:49 +0000
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:33 -0400
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-20 19:52 +0000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-21 05:53 -0400
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 10:30 -0400
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 09:32 -0700
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-08 19:54 +0200
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 09:58 -0400
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 14:27 +0000
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-19 08:02 -0700
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-19 08:07 -1000
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 20:50 +0000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:47 -0400
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-20 10:28 +0000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-20 09:34 -0700
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-20 18:41 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 00:07 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 00:16 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-21 00:42 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-20 21:55 -1000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-21 16:22 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 10:59 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:05 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 04:42 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-21 10:54 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-21 16:37 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-22 08:34 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-22 10:44 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-22 21:00 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-22 21:04 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:34 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-06 04:05 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 17:11 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-08 19:47 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-22 18:10 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 10:44 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-05 22:12 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-06 02:46 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-08 17:53 +0200
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-19 20:30 +0100
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 21:05 +0000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 01:58 +0100
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:39 -0400
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-06 04:07 +0200
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:43 -0400
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 05:06 -0500
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 10:45 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 11:08 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 17:40 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 13:25 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, r kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2013-03-21 05:42 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-21 18:14 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 15:05 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 15:48 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 12:00 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-31 12:36 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-01 04:41 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-01 14:12 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-21 18:46 +0000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-21 05:51 -0400
              Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-21 04:04 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 03:15 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-22 00:16 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 04:11 -0400
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 07:21 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-21 17:45 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 15:13 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-27 17:38 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-27 13:23 -0500
                Language for implementing other languages (was: Algorithm design ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 11:08 +0000
                Re: Language for implementing other languages Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-30 08:50 -0700
                Re: Language for implementing other languages anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-31 13:15 +0000
                Re: Language for implementing other languages Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-31 08:03 -0700
                Re: Language for implementing other languages Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 11:08 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 03:52 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-22 04:15 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-24 15:03 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-24 14:36 -1000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-25 05:05 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-25 12:02 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-25 07:26 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-25 08:25 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-29 18:09 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 04:52 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 10:36 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 10:58 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-30 09:40 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-29 18:13 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-29 18:12 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-27 17:25 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-27 22:19 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-28 11:19 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 07:19 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-28 17:58 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 16:22 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-29 02:06 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-29 04:23 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-28 15:41 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-28 18:00 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 16:26 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-29 14:11 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-29 14:53 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-29 08:49 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-29 16:54 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-30 13:06 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-31 11:36 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-01 02:18 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-31 19:33 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-01 16:18 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-01 11:17 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-02 04:30 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-01 15:54 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, ro kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2013-04-01 14:54 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 13:08 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-02 16:00 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-02 16:47 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-03 11:27 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-23 01:57 -0400
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:45 -0400
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-06 03:00 -0500
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-08 16:11 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-08 15:43 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:49 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-09 04:02 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-09 07:03 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-09 04:04 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 14:34 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-09 00:02 +0200
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-09 07:06 +0000
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 10:23 +0000
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 15:13 -0400
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 15:27 -0400
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 15:02 -0700
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:52 -0400
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-05 13:22 -1000
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-06 12:34 -1000
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 02:39 -0700
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-07 09:11 -1000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:48 -0400
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:51 -0400

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