Groups > comp.lang.forth > #20772

Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!)

Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Date	2013-03-18 01:07 -0700
References	<b70a9248-3dd3-4f6a-ac04-52300b7a7ac0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID	<500b7fa8-912b-4cdd-b34d-b3462e1da1fc@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!)
From	AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com>

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On Sunday, March 17, 2013 3:52:14 PM UTC, AKE wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> Can anyone advise on how the cost of ordinary stack operations (e.g. dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) compares with the cost of memory access (fetch or store)?
> 
> 
> So, ignoring the effect of an operating system (so no memory stalls, etc.), and assuming for the moment a simple processor,  
> 
> ** is there a rule of thumb I can use to decide how many ordinary operations to trade-off against saving a memory access? **
> 

Thanks everyone for your responses.  

This has been an eye-opener on some ideas in computing I hadn't really questioned.

@Paul: Yes, I guess in hindsight this was an elementary question because of a pretty large blind spot.  But hopefully that's the value of a community like this -- quick disabusing of wrong notions...

For the record (risky, but I'll give it a go):
It seems that the central issue here is that model behind the classical mathematical analysis of algorithms is quite an elementary one, and no longer matches fundamental properties of modern computers (cache memory, pipelines, cache hits & misses, branch prediction, etc.)  So one can have two pieces of code that have the same mathematical complexity but have very different run times...

A profiler would demonstrate this straightaway, hence everyone's been pointing me in their own way towards that point of view.  

Yes, I will now move to remedy that deficiency.

Two key posts that I found also very helpful -- here in case they are useful to anyone else who stumbles on this thread in future:

(1)  This one by Peter Norvig has the kind of rough ballpark / order of magnitude comparison that I was looking for in the original question.  It's actually quite an interesting article as well about what it takes to become an expert in anything.

http://norvig.com/21-days.html#answers

(2)  This article by Kjellkod goes into 'locality of reference' with extensive profiling experiments on linked list vs. dynamic arrays, and challenges the view that linked lists always deliver what their mathematical complexity predicts...

http://kjellkod.wordpress.com/2012/02/25/why-you-should-never-ever-ever-use-linked-list-in-your-code-again/#TOC_IMPORTANT_STUFF

(3)  The capstone quote (by a commenter in the above article):

"... modern processors are geared towards optimizing access to _continuous_ memory space. Ie, when the cpu goes to memory to fetch some data it will fetch all the data found on the same “line” into its cache. If you need to access some other data, and this data is found right next to the first, then you save yourself the more expensive operation of the cpu going all the way to RAM and just work with its own internal cache.

Most textbooks and search results say otherwise because they talk purely from a theoretical point of view and don’t include these optimizations into their analysis."

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Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 08:52 -0700
  Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-17 10:41 -0700
    Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 11:08 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-17 08:52 -1000
        Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 12:28 -0700
          Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-17 13:09 -0700
            Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 13:25 -0700
              Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-17 13:53 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-17 23:31 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-18 02:13 -0700
              Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations  (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-19 16:45 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations  (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-03-28 18:58 -0400
            Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-17 23:27 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-18 02:14 -0700
          Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-03-18 00:22 +0200
            Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Sieur de Bienville <morrimichael@gmail.com> - 2013-03-20 12:27 -0700
          Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-17 16:19 -1000
            Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 00:45 -0700
              Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-19 10:34 -1000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-19 13:49 -0700
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-17 13:39 -0700
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 14:42 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-17 14:49 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2013-03-18 11:02 +0100
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2013-03-17 15:11 -0700
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-17 21:40 -0400
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-18 04:26 -0500
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-18 15:46 +0100
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-19 04:15 -0400
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-19 05:03 -0500
        Re: INTERLUDE SUMMARY  --- Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-19 04:07 -0700
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-03-19 20:56 +0200
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 21:03 +0000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:53 -0400
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 01:07 -0700
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-18 01:53 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 02:32 -0700
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-18 02:45 -0700
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 03:28 -0700
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-18 10:20 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-18 18:23 +0000
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 10:19 -0700
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-18 10:44 -1000
      And what about locals? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-18 23:28 +0000
        Re: And what about locals? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-03-19 01:20 +0200
        Re: And what about locals? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-18 17:17 -1000
          Re: And what about locals? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-03-19 00:42 -0700
            Re: And what about locals? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 10:06 +0000
            Re: And what about locals? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-19 12:53 -0700
          Re: And what about locals? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-19 09:46 +0000
          Re: And what about locals? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 11:52 +0000
        Re: And what about locals? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-19 16:08 +0000
          Re: And what about locals? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-19 22:40 +0100
            Re: And what about locals? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 11:43 +0000
              Re: And what about locals? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 19:05 +0100
    Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 14:24 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-18 11:59 -1000
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 15:04 -0700
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-18 15:22 -0700
      Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-19 04:07 -0400
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-19 12:49 +0000
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:33 -0400
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-20 19:52 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-21 05:53 -0400
        Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 14:27 +0000
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-19 08:02 -0700
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-19 08:07 -1000
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 20:50 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:47 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-20 10:28 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-20 09:34 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-20 18:41 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 00:07 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 00:16 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-21 00:42 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-20 21:55 -1000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-21 16:22 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 10:59 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 04:42 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-21 10:54 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-21 16:37 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-22 08:34 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-22 10:44 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-22 21:00 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-22 21:04 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-22 18:10 +0000
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-19 20:30 +0100
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-19 21:05 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 01:58 +0100
          Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:43 -0400
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 05:06 -0500
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 10:45 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 11:08 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 17:40 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 13:25 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, r kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2013-03-21 05:42 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-21 18:14 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 15:05 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 15:48 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 12:00 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-21 18:46 +0000
              Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-21 05:51 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-21 04:04 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 03:15 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-22 00:16 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 04:11 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 07:21 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-21 17:45 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 15:13 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-27 17:38 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-27 13:23 -0500
                Language for implementing other languages (was: Algorithm design ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 11:08 +0000
                Re: Language for implementing other languages Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-30 08:50 -0700
                Re: Language for implementing other languages Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 11:08 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 03:52 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-22 04:15 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-24 15:03 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-24 14:36 -1000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-25 05:05 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-25 12:02 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-25 07:26 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-25 08:25 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-29 18:09 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 04:52 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 10:36 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 10:58 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-30 09:40 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-29 18:13 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-29 18:12 -0400
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-27 17:25 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-27 22:19 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-28 11:19 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 07:19 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-28 17:58 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 16:22 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-29 02:06 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-29 04:23 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-28 15:41 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-28 18:00 +0100
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 16:26 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-29 14:11 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-29 14:53 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-29 08:49 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-29 16:54 +0000
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-30 13:06 -0700
                Re: Algorithm design: computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 13:08 -0500
                Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-23 01:57 -0400
            Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 10:23 +0000
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations  (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-19 17:38 +0000
  Re: Algorithm design:  computational cost of ordinary stack operations (dup, rot, over, swap, etc.) vs. cost of fetch (@) and store (!) Michael L Gassanenko <m_l_g3@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-21 04:53 -0700

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