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Groups > alt.os.development > #9180

Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI

From James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com>
Newsgroups alt.os.development
Subject Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI
Date 2016-02-15 15:57 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <n9ssb4$foc$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <20160116032912.69a7cd08@_> <n9pir2$ah1$1@dont-email.me> <20160214091143.3e442dbb@_> <n9q821$ls3$1@dont-email.me> <20160215055546.61c0b1ed@_>

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On 15/02/2016 10:55, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 15:58:35 +0000
> James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 14/02/2016 14:11, Rod Pemberton wrote:

[All OT]

A fun but interesting comparison of issues, for Mr Kerry's benefit:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/699238102536228864

> Canada has ten provinces.  They could be the 51st through 60th US
> states, if they wanted that.  Obviously, they see no need.  Personally,
> I think they have roughly the same level of freedoms, but their economy
> would be much stronger, if they were a part of the US.  The capital
> flows would be massive, if they adopted our legal system.  The UK is
> in much the same position. It can exist on it's own, but should it? ...

I don't think there is any question of the UK being on its own after 
leaving the EU. Folks in the UK want to continue to engage with the EU 
and, in fact, to engage more with the rest of the world.

The question is more about the UK's future political status - somewhat 
like your Canada example. The choices are

1. Leave the current political arrangement (but keep trading).
2. Stay in and integrate further.
3. Stay in and try to maintain the status quo.

>>> If all your neighbors are part of the EU, what benefit does
>>> it have to be the odd man out?

Incidentally on that, tiny Iceland has been outside the club for some 
time now and has commented on how helpful that has been to them. They 
have no intention of joining.

>> Only some neighbours are members of the EU, not all. Those neighbours
>> who are independent of it have more opportunities to trade worldwide,
>> and apparently have been doing better economically over the past few
>> years because of that freedom. That is important because the EU's
>> influence is declining as a share of world trade.
>
> So, the choices are 1) fix the EU or 2) abandon it.

Fixing the EU sounds nice but I no longer think that is feasible. The 
established institutions are too stuck in their ways.

Britain needs more flexibility for its international relationships.

The UK and the EU have long disagreed over matters but the UK gets outvoted.

> I guess your countrymen need to decide if the EU is worth saving.

It's funny. Even the EU's proponents say it is not very good but they 
want to stay in anyway, seeing it as the only option. Those who actually 
work with it and have invested time and love into it have become 
blinkered into seeing it as THE way. They keep bashing away at it and 
don't see any other future. Perhaps they are suffering from Stockholm 
Syndrome. ;-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

> Saving it could lead to short-term negative consequences.

That sounds interesting. What negative consequences did you have in mind?

ISTM that *leaving* it could result in short-term negative consequences 
for the UK. The reasons are complex. I won't detail them just now. 
Leaving would be better for the UK in the longer term.

>> The EU mandates a lot of fiscal matters. One that recently caused
>> amusement here was VAT - Value Added Tax, which might be similar to
>> what you would call Sales Tax or maybe Purchase Tax.
>
> I don't fully understand how VAT differs from a sales tax.
> It seems to be a tax on the markup of products instead of
> a full tax on the product.  Perhaps, this is an attempt to
> avoid double taxation in the product chain?  I don't think
> there is an equivalent here.

You have understood it well. The main point is that retailers add a tax 
(VAT) to goods they sell to the public. When I was in Vermont I think 
they did something similar. I say that because I found it was cheaper to 
nip across to New Hampshire. Or maybe New Hampshire sales tax was lower?

...

I've snipped your clear explanation of tax issues. Suffice to say that 
we have similar complexities and tax avoidance here.

...

>> Well, I gather the EU decided that tampons were not essential items
>> and could not have zero percent VAT. That triggered some girls to
>> comment on how they liked nothing more than to treat themselves to a
>> tampon, and similar.
>
> There is a continuing ruckus here about a "pink tax" from females.
> That's their term, not mine, if you think it's slightly suggestive ...
> Apparently, consumer product companies charge more for products
> marketed to women than they do to men.  Women earn less than men.

Same here. Recent news items, in fact.

...

>> The UK has something slightly similar, though on a much smaller
>> scale. The countries of the UK: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern
>> Ireland each have devolved governing assemblies with powers over
>> their own countries.
>
> Well, four is big enough for a country, right?  Perfect size ...  ;-)
> The US only started with thirteen.  Maybe, the UK should start it's
> own club and attract the countries which aren't currently part of
> the EU.  That would provide extra bargaining power.  Wait a minute,
> the UK has crown dependencies (3), overseas territories (14), and
> the commonwealth realm (16).  I think the UK has plenty to work with.

You know more about it than I do. :-)

The UK's instincts are more about free trade and light regulation so
I think you are absolutely right about the potential for the UK to 
"start it's own club" as it were, or at least to link up with an 
existing club.

The EU, by contrast, has a different approach. It tends to be more 
heavy-handed, regulatory, protectionist and integrationist.

I think the UK would be happier in a club which was essentially for 
trading only. If the UK leaves the EU club then the countries which 
remain could continue their political integration if they want to do so.

What you say about attracting others into the UK's club, however, 
highlights a problem to which I don't yet have a really good answer. 
I'll try to explain. I will use the term "club" as it is a good one.

Imagine the UK leaves the EU club. If the UK subsequently does well then 
more members of the EU club might want to leave. The EU's movers and 
shakers would hate that! They don't want to lose members. It would 
therefore be in their interest to prevent an independent UK from being 
successful.

I don't mean that I expect dirty tricks but they could be unhelpful or 
even spiteful. When negotiating trade between the UK and the EU they 
could be obstructionist and unhelpful. Even if they know they will 
suffer economically because of it they will think it will help keep 
other members in their club.

That unknown factor, i.e. how EU leaders will react, casts doubt over 
whether UK-EU trade will be affected by the UK leaving the club. My 
problem is I cannot be sure that existing trade will continue unchanged. 
Something I am working on.

Scepticism about the EU project is growing across Europe as people see 
the effects it is having. I think the UK is the first member to have a 
referendum on whether to remain in or leave.

...

>> For example, as the UK has free healthcare people come here from
>> elsewhere in Europe to get medical help.
>
> Nobody likes a freeloader, but can anyone deny someone sick and
> in need of medical attention? ...

I thought that happened in America prior to what you call Obamacare.

...

>> That may sound OK but the free healthcare system is on its knees.
>
> Nobody here listened when Canada or the UK or other countries with
> massive healthcare driven debt were cited as reasons to not pass
> Obamacare.  The majority and younger people in the US now see
> healthcare as a fundamental right, i.e., socialist shift.  Personally,
> I believe this to be unfortunate.  The entire younger generation of
> "millenials" here seem to be a bunch of freeloaders.  First, they
> wanted free healthcare.  Now, they want amnesty for their college
> loans.  Nobody is taking responsibility anymore.  Capitalism is
> the only solution, but it seems that it is being rejected.

The UK used to have free healthcare and free education up to degree 
level. Most healthcare is still free but dental care no longer is. 
Education is free up until something like age 18. After that, university 
students get loans which they are expected to pay back once they start 
earning over a certain amount.

>> If you go to a hospital's Accident and Emergency department there
>> is a target for you to be seen in four hours. Yes, you could be
>> waiting there for that long and it be considered acceptable. If
>> that's not bad enough, the four-hour target is not always met.
>> The demands are too great.
>
> We _knew_ about similar problems with Canada prior to Obamacare.
> It still happened anyway.

Has Obamacare made any difference to those who have health insurance. Or 
are they unaffected?

James

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Thread

Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 11:42 +0100
  Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Bernhard Schornak <schornak@web.de> - 2015-10-02 20:43 +0200
    Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 15:23 +0100
      Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Bernhard Schornak <schornak@web.de> - 2015-10-05 17:38 +0200
  Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-02 17:17 -0400
    Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 16:36 +0100
      Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-04 21:27 -0400
        Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 15:01 +0100
          Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-05 21:57 -0400
            Re: halting Adobe Flash videos with Mozilla Firefox, was [Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI] "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-26 04:35 -0400
            Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 12:40 +0000
              Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-12-27 15:51 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 12:08 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-03 14:55 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 17:58 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 11:32 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-16 03:29 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 13:44 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-16 12:55 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 19:55 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-18 07:39 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 22:45 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-19 22:28 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 13:27 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-27 17:20 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 11:03 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 17:43 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-23 13:17 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 13:42 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 09:14 +0100
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 09:56 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-14 09:11 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:58 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-15 05:55 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 15:57 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-16 05:33 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-24 06:16 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-24 18:03 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 06:25 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 00:21 -0800
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 08:45 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-28 20:40 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 14:49 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-02 21:50 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 06:09 +0000
                OT politics was Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-03-05 12:40 +0000
                Re: OT politics was Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-05 20:11 -0500
                Re: OT politics, was [Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI] Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-05 20:11 -0500
                Re: OT politics, was [Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI] James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-03-17 16:35 +0000
                Re: OT politics, was [Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI] Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-17 21:02 -0400
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-24 20:09 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 14:55 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 03:56 -0800
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-17 04:21 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-02-24 02:12 -0800
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-24 18:03 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 02:53 -0800
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-28 20:15 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 20:37 -0700
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-28 18:23 -0400
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 21:10 -0700
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 14:34 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 15:10 +0000
        Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 15:39 +0100
  Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-10-03 12:48 +0200
    Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 17:00 +0100
      Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-10-04 23:32 +0200
        Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 14:05 +0100
          Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 15:17 +0100
            Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-10-06 10:35 +0200
              Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 16:28 +0100
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-10-06 19:14 +0200
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 20:02 +0100
          Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-10-06 10:46 +0200
            Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-07 01:16 -0400
            Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 12:50 +0000
              Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-12-27 23:22 +0100

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