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Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI

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On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:32:45 +0000
James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 03/01/2016 19:55, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> > On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 12:08:31 +0000
> > James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> wrote:  

[all OT]

> >> 2) The issue of UK independence from the European Union - resulting
> >> in time spent on Twitter and looking at setting up a new web site
> >> and delivery system - not done yet.  
> >
> > What?
> >
> > Why doesn't the U.K. want to be part of the E.U.?  
> > [...]
> > That should, in theory, based on the U.S. federal
> > and state model, be great for the U.K. economy.  
> 
> I am not sure what you mean there. Do you mean that being in
> the EU should be great for the UK economy?

Yes, in theory.  Well, it's like the British Empire.
More countries.  More trade.  More wealth.  Importing
low lowers the cost of living.  Exporting high raises
the standard of living.

> > Does Germany have too much power in the E.U.?  
> 
> Yes. Germany contributes most to EU coffers
> 
>    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm#start
>
> but Germany also has disproportionate power.
>

Is the UK able to  *buy*  parity?  I.e., increase payments to
match Germany's.  From the link, it would seem the major
payments are percentage (GNI, VAT) or volume based (customs
duties).  Perhaps, an argument based on economic discrimination
could bring parity.  I.e., incite Malta, Cyprus, Estonia et. al.
to claim the EU system is inherently unfair because relative
power is proportionate to the financial payments, and then have
all the poor countries threaten to leave the EU.  If the argument
is accepted, power equality results.

> For example, UK news 
> reports often say that for the UK PM to get the EU to agree with his 
> view he has to get the German chancellor onside. It seems that EU 
> leaders like to achieve consensus and may subjugate their own 
> preferences (and, arguably, even the needs of their own citizens) in 
> order to agree with what they see as the main bloc. For someone who 
> expects elected leaders to represent the electorate that desire for 
> governmental accord seems very strange and somewhat worrying.

(Note to self.  Look up "onside".  Ok.  We say "onboard" here.)

It sounds like there is a balance of power issue.
The US model divides power between government branches
and portions of government entities.

> Some British politicians say that the UK must be in the EU 'at
> the top table' in order to influence EU policy.

Well, I would think that most of the countries which currently
contribute the majority of general funds to the EU other than
Germany (i.e, Italy, France, UK, Spain) would want power parity
with Germany.  Together, perhaps under threat of EU withdrawal,
they could definitely force Germany to agree.  If the UK is the
only country that wants to threaten this, then perhaps the other
countries could be convinced of supporting the UK, either in
solidarity or as a favor.  Otherwise, Germany, as the apparent
dominant economic machine in the EU, will come to dominant the
EU bureaucracy totally.  ISTM, that there is no reason the top
five or six, or perhaps seven, EU states shouldn't have power
parity.  A "union" is supposed to be of equals.  It doesn't 
sound like the "European Union" is actually a union.

> * Primarily, it is undemocratic.

That's a problem.  It goes hand in hand with the rule of law
and capitalism.  Those don't work well without each other.

> UK law is *subject* to EU law

In the US, from the constitution, the states have the rights to
make laws on any issue not assigned as a right of the federal
government.  I.e., federal government rights are limited to higher
level national issues, generally.  So, states are not subject to
federal law in the US, except for the constitution and US Supreme
Court rulings.  States are not subject to treaties with the federal
government.  This is how states can legalize drugs, gambling, etc
while the federal government outlaws them.  Of course, Supreme Court
rulings can overturn states laws, e.g., gay marriage.  This is also
why copyright laws in the US for US citizens and residents follow
state and/or federal laws and not international treaties, i.e.,
there is no international aspect involving a US citizen and can't
be brought into an international court of law where a treaty
might apply.  The latter is usually a point of contention with
those in the EU who insist that all copyrights in the US follow
the Berne convention since the US is a signatory.  They don't.

> UK law is *subject* to EU law and yet UK voters have no say in
> those laws and cannot choose the main lawmakers. The EU leaders
> who make these laws are not challenged by any UK body either in
> interviews or before committees.

That doesn't seem to be representative, perhaps, more totalitarian.

> This has very real effects. For example, the German chancellor
> invited an unlimited number of migrants in to Germany - all who
> could get there - and soon after that said that Germany should not
> cope alone and that other countries should shoulder the load; the
> migrants should be shared out and/or paid for by all EU countries.

Is there really any difference between the ability to charge without
recourse and the ability to tax?  We experienced this with ObamaCare
individual mandate.  Did the UK grant the EU the power to tax it on
for any issue?  Handling undesired immigrants is definitely a tax.

> * The UK is under high population pressures (schools, doctors, 
> hospitals, housing) yet under EU law the UK has absolutely no control 
> over the number of EU citizens moving to the UK. Anyone who wants to
> can come and, if they need it, will be supported by the UK's welfare
> system.

Doesn't the EU criticize the US for not putting immigrants on welfare?

Doesn't the EU criticize the US for the future "Great Wall of Mexico"?
(It's coming ...)

Border control and immigrant control is important.  You need to
know what type of person is entering your country to make decisions
about them.  Those are federal issues here since the federal government
controls national immigration and both national and state borders.
Individual US states probably have control within their states.  I'm
not sure as to what degree.  Most likely, if an immigrant is a problem,
they are first sent to prison for any crimes they were found guilty of
in a court of law if any, then deported via federal customs and
immigration agency.

> * The UK govt is in an eyewatering amount of debt - £1.5 trillion, 
> approximately 5% of the tax take is spent just servicing the debt and 
> that may well go up if and when the costs of borrowing increase.

I'm always surprised by how liberal EU countries are and how supportive
they are of social programs too.  IMO, this is the natural economic
outcome: debt.  It's only a matter of time before more socialist or
liberal elements of US society push for food for all, minimum income
for all, homes for all, etc.  How do you pay for all that?  I.e., it's
simply not always possible to implement equitable social justice given
the available funds.  Someone must suffer.  Our social security program
is a constantly broke Ponzi scheme.  Our welfare programs are constantly
broke, because we simple have too many people here to employ post
industrialization.  Our healthcare (ObamaCare) is another even worse
Ponzi scheme likely to implode in a massive global financial meltdown.
Whomever authored it flunked economics and didn't fix the causes of
our costly healthcare.  The only thing saving these flawed schemes
from impending doom has been the repeated recovery of the US economy,
i.e., our workers start making a lot more money.

> * Economic conditions vary a lot across the EU creating a flow of
> people from poorer to richer countries. That is not good for either
> the rich or the poor countries.

Why don't the rich countries employ the people in poor countries?
I.e., no need for them to seek better life elsewhere if paid well.
George Soros seems to be fond of social engineering in the EU,
albeit his misguided policies are probably bad for the EU and
people in those countries long-term, but better than the alternative
of preserving the failed policies of communism.

> * Europe has porous borders.

Our states do too.  This is a rather nice feature of a free country.
I would hope to not lose that in the US also.  We already lost our
fourth amendment right to freedom from search after the 9/11 event
on major forms of public transportation.

Porous borders isn't an issue for the US *when* the borders
are protected at the national or federal level, but they aren't
doing their job well, in part due to a negligent President.
Albeit, we have strengthened border patrol for both Mexico
and Canada post 9/11 event.  Canada was unnecessary, really.
It only helps with drug enforcement, not immigration, but
anything which helps law enforcement is protected and enhanced
even at the expense of our freedom.  Misguided.

> Migrants can get in to the EU (perhaps 
> risking their lives and those of their children).

Ditto for Mexico here.

> * EU policies have already brought in and are continuing to bring in
> an unknown number of terrorists as well as large groups who are not 
> terrorists but who do not share the West's traditional respect for 
> women. There have already been assaults, rapes, intimidation and
> killings.

Cultural problems resulting from immigration die down over time.
Read up on US history.  Each time a new group of immigrants enters
the US, there are fights and conflicts for decades.  Indoctrination
in the laws and strong law enforcement by the police helps to reduce.
A generation or two later, most immigrants are naturalized and become
integrated into American society.  Few problems.  The exception are
Jews and blacks, both of whom choose not to integrate.  Blacks use
slavery as an excuse (150 years old ...) to continue to attack the
US system.  All other immigrants chose to come here.  They didn't.
Unfortunately, our society doesn't need blacks for workers anymore,
slave or free.  Their jobs were exported or industrialized or
mechanized or "roboticized".  I suspect societal issues with blacks
in America will only become worse.

> Don't get me wrong. I can see that there are good things about EU 
> membership, too. However, as the EU is a customs union those benefits 
> are mainly to large companies with international trading - what I 
> believe economists call vested interests.

I think that once the balance-of-power and union-versus-state rights
are worked out, then the EU would be more beneficial to Europe.  I'm
rather surprised they didn't seem to learn anything from the US model
on those issues.  The US model was the result of failures of the
British government, the Catholic Church's power in Europe, and perhaps
even other government models, e.g., French.  Our government formation
documents are a great gift freely given to the world that no country
seems to want to implement ...

> The main thing for me is that the EU takes away that essential
> ultimate control by the citizens.

Use the system to change the system or overthrow it.  The latter is
how America was founded and was illegal then and now.  The former is
how it usually works today.

> (An American should recognise the
> importance of the opening words of the US constitution: We the
> people...!) As history has shown, it is dangerous when governments
> are not accountable to the populations they rule over.

Agreed, albeit, it is becoming more and more difficult to
keep our supposedly absolute US rights absolute.  Laws and
court cases keep chipping away at our rights, redefining
meanings, and strengthening or weakening laws as the courts
see fit.  It's only a matter of time before someone argues
that "bear arms" grants us the right to a "bear's legs" and
other body parts, therefore somehow prohibits gun ownership.
With our current cast of Supreme Court justices acting like
a bunch of Disney characters, it could happen too.


Rod Pemberton

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Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 11:42 +0100
  Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Bernhard Schornak <schornak@web.de> - 2015-10-02 20:43 +0200
    Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 15:23 +0100
      Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Bernhard Schornak <schornak@web.de> - 2015-10-05 17:38 +0200
  Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-02 17:17 -0400
    Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 16:36 +0100
      Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-04 21:27 -0400
        Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 15:01 +0100
          Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-05 21:57 -0400
            Re: halting Adobe Flash videos with Mozilla Firefox, was [Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI] "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-26 04:35 -0400
            Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 12:40 +0000
              Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-12-27 15:51 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 12:08 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-03 14:55 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 17:58 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 11:32 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-16 03:29 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 13:44 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-16 12:55 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 19:55 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-18 07:39 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 22:45 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-19 22:28 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 13:27 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-27 17:20 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-28 11:03 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 17:43 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-23 13:17 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 13:42 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 09:14 +0100
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 09:56 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-14 09:11 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:58 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-15 05:55 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 15:57 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-16 05:33 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-24 06:16 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-24 18:03 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 06:25 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 00:21 -0800
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 08:45 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-28 20:40 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 14:49 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-02 21:50 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 06:09 +0000
                OT politics was Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-03-05 12:40 +0000
                Re: OT politics was Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-05 20:11 -0500
                Re: OT politics, was [Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI] Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-05 20:11 -0500
                Re: OT politics, was [Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI] James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-03-17 16:35 +0000
                Re: OT politics, was [Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI] Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-17 21:02 -0400
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-24 20:09 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 14:55 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 03:56 -0800
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-17 04:21 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-02-24 02:12 -0800
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-24 18:03 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 02:53 -0800
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-02-28 20:15 -0500
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 20:37 -0700
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-28 18:23 -0400
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 21:10 -0700
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 14:34 +0000
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 15:10 +0000
        Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 15:39 +0100
  Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-10-03 12:48 +0200
    Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 17:00 +0100
      Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-10-04 23:32 +0200
        Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 14:05 +0100
          Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 15:17 +0100
            Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-10-06 10:35 +0200
              Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 16:28 +0100
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-10-06 19:14 +0200
                Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 20:02 +0100
          Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-10-06 10:46 +0200
            Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-07 01:16 -0400
            Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 12:50 +0000
              Re: Flow of keystroke messages in a UI "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-12-27 23:22 +0100

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