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| Date | Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:43:47 -0800 |
| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
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| Subject | Re: Where is the center of the universe? |
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Cross-posted to 3 groups.
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rickman wrote:
>
> On 11/23/2015 2:31 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Tom Roberts wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
> >>> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross
> >>> is the center.
> >>
> >> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that
> >> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A
> >> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line")
> >> also depends on which point of the surface is used.
> >>
> >> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what
> >> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?
> >>
> >> You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
> >> your mind.
> >>
> >>> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no
> >>> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks
> >>> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas
> >>> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never
> >>> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all.
> >>
> >> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no
> >> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance
> >> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people.
> >>
> >> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant
> >> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models
> >> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.
> >>
> >> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR
> >> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we
> >> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for
> >> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models
> >> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).
> >>
> >> Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
> >> is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
> >> implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
> >> the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
> >> mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.
> >>
> >> IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
> >> argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
> >> downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.
> >>
> >> Tom Roberts
> >
> >
> > When you draw a line from the top of the universe..
> > to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line.
>
> If you are standing at the top of the universe and you look up, what do
> you see?
>
> --
>
> Rick
You may need to understand my perpective of the universe...and how I am
able to see the top of the universe.
When I am standing not at the top of the universe, but *on* top of the
universe...the whole universe, or
if I place the whole universe on my drawing board...then I draw a line
from the top of the universe to the
bottom of the universe. My view of the universe is like a sheet of paper
on the drawing board.
If I look up...I see a ceiling. If I look to the right I see venetian
blinds..
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Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 17:45 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 16:09 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 20:51 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 22:02 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-20 23:48 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 10:27 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 05:13 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:57 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:44 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:17 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:22 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 11:18 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:26 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 11:33 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:32 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 12:01 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:24 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:54 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:36 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 13:43 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:57 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 15:26 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-11-21 23:01 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 17:07 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 15:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 15:58 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 17:16 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 17:32 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 00:58 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-21 23:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 08:40 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 08:01 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-22 12:45 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 00:47 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:43 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 08:05 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Jack Monaco <jacksh@umbertopal.org> - 2015-11-21 14:18 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:48 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:21 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-23 17:34 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 08:44 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 13:02 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 11:31 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 15:54 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 13:43 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 16:49 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 16:17 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 13:54 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 16:52 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:24 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-21 06:43 -0500
Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:45 -0500
Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-21 12:51 -0600
Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". Edward Stansfield <stansfield5REM6@linuxmail.org> - 2015-11-21 14:11 -0500
Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:51 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 11:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:42 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 17:01 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-21 21:16 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gatuzo <Gatuzo@gallaxial.com> - 2015-11-22 00:23 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 01:20 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 01:18 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 08:06 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 06:36 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 00:54 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-21 20:37 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-21 21:06 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 11:43 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 09:01 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 14:59 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-22 14:02 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 16:32 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 22:52 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:51 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 17:07 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:48 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-24 21:47 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 10:32 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 09:47 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 23:31 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 21:36 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:22 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 17:34 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-01 21:52 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 09:59 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 11:16 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 08:40 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 11:02 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Jack Monaco <jacksh@umbBertopal.org> - 2015-11-25 17:37 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 18:47 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Jack Monaco <jacksh@umbBertopal.org> - 2015-11-25 18:11 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:06 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:04 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 17:50 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:01 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:05 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 12:42 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 13:18 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 22:16 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 08:31 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 08:11 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 10:21 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 09:23 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 10:19 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 16:35 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 14:51 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 17:30 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 18:16 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 20:23 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 21:23 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 21:31 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 09:25 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-03 12:03 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 14:50 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-03 16:43 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-12-03 17:12 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-03 17:35 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 19:36 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-03 22:40 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-03 23:10 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 07:45 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-04 13:13 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-04 21:31 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-12-04 23:17 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-05 00:04 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-12-05 17:28 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-05 23:14 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-05 12:14 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-05 18:08 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-06 17:50 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-06 20:04 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 07:39 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 15:09 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-07 21:50 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 19:33 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 10:34 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 13:26 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 14:49 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 09:21 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-12-02 22:01 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 23:04 -0800
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