Path: csiph.com!optima2.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.glorb.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 15:43:33 -0600 Message-ID: <56538893.2ABC@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:43:47 -0800 From: The Starmaker Reply-To: starmaker@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity Subject: Re: Where is the center of the universe? References: <54D7D8B6.20A9@ix.netcom.com> <565021C7.2111@ix.netcom.com> <565369A8.3781@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 76 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 45.49.183.72 X-Trace: sv3-XQ0OBhAw7yHO0Aco8V1IQ5DxQsVaNbui2h1JSDM8n8zlpyUqEV4IBOpB3GIGLzjbc7iU0m6UCzTr0mY!TYM7Y2ka0jrs4mTBiVXPHkJ1WWtNxHqbrF7zvO1WWDgS2o+i8waqGB79Ydc2+SeyjYD4yQnVtIw7!yJWp+A0o X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4918 Xref: csiph.com alt.astronomy:279375 sci.physics:534906 sci.physics.relativity:370743 rickman wrote: > > On 11/23/2015 2:31 PM, The Starmaker wrote: > > Tom Roberts wrote: > >> > >> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote: > >>> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross > >>> is the center. > >> > >> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that > >> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A > >> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line") > >> also depends on which point of the surface is used. > >> > >> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what > >> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"? > >> > >> You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in > >> your mind. > >> > >>> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no > >>> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks > >>> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas > >>> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never > >>> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all. > >> > >> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no > >> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance > >> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people. > >> > >> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant > >> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models > >> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold. > >> > >> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR > >> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we > >> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for > >> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models > >> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds). > >> > >> Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3" > >> is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are > >> implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and > >> the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the > >> mainstream cosmological models you take issue with. > >> > >> IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your > >> argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is > >> downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this. > >> > >> Tom Roberts > > > > > > When you draw a line from the top of the universe.. > > to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line. > > If you are standing at the top of the universe and you look up, what do > you see? > > -- > > Rick You may need to understand my perpective of the universe...and how I am able to see the top of the universe. When I am standing not at the top of the universe, but *on* top of the universe...the whole universe, or if I place the whole universe on my drawing board...then I draw a line from the top of the universe to the bottom of the universe. My view of the universe is like a sheet of paper on the drawing board. If I look up...I see a ceiling. If I look to the right I see venetian blinds..