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Groups > alt.astronomy > #279370

Re: Where is the center of the universe?

From rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups alt.astronomy, sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Where is the center of the universe?
Date 2015-11-23 15:54 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <n2vu98$c8l$2@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <565021C7.2111@ix.netcom.com> <ba6dnY6kIuSI583LnZ2dnUU7-fOdnZ2d@giganews.com> <o034y.186323$1Z.161338@fx01.iad> <LoqdneKaOcCGoM7LnZ2dnUU7_8ydnZ2d@giganews.com> <565369A8.3781@ix.netcom.com>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 11/23/2015 2:31 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>
>> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
>>> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross
>>> is the center.
>>
>> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that
>> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A
>> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line")
>> also depends on which point of the surface is used.
>>
>> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what
>> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?
>>
>>          You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
>>          your mind.
>>
>>> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no
>>> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks
>>> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas
>>> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never
>>> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all.
>>
>> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no
>> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance
>> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people.
>>
>> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant
>> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models
>> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.
>>
>> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR
>> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we
>> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for
>> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models
>> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).
>>
>>          Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
>>          is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
>>          implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
>>          the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
>>          mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.
>>
>>          IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
>>          argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
>>          downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.
>>
>> Tom Roberts
>
>
> When you draw a line from the top of the universe..
> to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line.

If you are standing at the top of the universe and you look up, what do 
you see?

-- 

Rick

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Thread

Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 17:45 -0600
  Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-20 23:48 -0800
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 10:27 +0100
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 05:13 -0500
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:57 +0100
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:44 -0500
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:17 -0500
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:22 -0500
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 08:05 -0600
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:48 -0500
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:21 -0600
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-23 17:34 +0100
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 11:31 -0800
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 15:54 -0500
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 13:43 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 16:49 -0500
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 16:17 -0800
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 16:52 -0500
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:24 +0000
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-21 07:13 -0700
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-21 12:48 -0600
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-21 14:10 -0700
  Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-21 06:43 -0500
    Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:45 -0500
      Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-21 12:51 -0600
      Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". Edward Stansfield <stansfield5REM6@linuxmail.org> - 2015-11-21 14:11 -0500
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-21 20:37 +0000
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-21 21:06 -0800
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 11:43 +0000
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 09:01 -0500
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 14:59 +0000
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-22 14:02 -0800
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 16:32 -0600
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-22 07:18 -0700
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:51 -0600
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 13:57 -0800
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 17:07 -0500
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:48 +0000
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 17:01 -0800
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-25 01:20 -0700
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-25 10:51 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-12-03 18:13 -0700
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-24 21:47 -0800
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 10:32 +0000
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 09:47 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 21:36 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:22 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:27 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-26 15:39 -0700
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-27 00:48 +0000
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 17:34 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-01 21:52 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-12-02 09:49 -0700
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 09:59 -0600
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 11:16 -0500
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 11:02 -0600
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 18:47 +0100
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:06 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-25 10:52 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:04 -0600
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-25 12:38 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-25 14:23 -0700
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-25 15:51 -0600
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-29 12:40 -0700
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 17:50 +0100
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:01 -0800
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:05 -0600
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 12:42 -0800

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