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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #36842

Re: How to assign an object to another in it method?

From Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: How to assign an object to another in it method?
Date 2017-07-08 22:12 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <ojs35k$hf4$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <ojet3n$ek2$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ojf0vn$7d0$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org> <ojhgd6$bjn$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ojhi20$39m$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org> <ojs006$1ls2$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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On 7/8/2017 9:13 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 7/4/2017 10:18 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 7/4/2017 9:46 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 7/3/2017 11:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 7/3/2017 10:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> I hope that a static code analysis tool create warnings
>>>>> about doing something like that.
>>>>
>>>> Why should they, Arne?  Default values are just that - values used when
>>>> no others are given.  They are not the only valid values, and are there
>>>> to be overridden.
>>>
>>> It indicates that the author of the super class and the author of the
>>> sub class seems to disagree on at least one aspect of how the method
>>> should be. That is something that should always be examined. Do the
>>> classes really reflect an "is a" relation or is the difference a
>>> symptom of a bigger difference/problem.
> 
>> If that is the case, then the author of the superclass didn't design it
>> properly.  Default values are not there to indicate the only valid
>> values for a class.  They are there to allow for some (or all) values to
>> be assumed.
>>
>> If there is a restriction in what the values can be, then that needs to
>> be in the appropriate function.  Otherwise, there is no restriction.
> 
> Yes. But the topic was not valid values but default values.
>

That is correct.  And while the default values will be valid, if there
are restrictions on non-default values those go in the function.

>> If the subclass does not reflect an "is-a" relationship, that is a
>> design problem which has nothing to do with default values.
> 
> If it is the default values that break the "is a" then it has
> something to do with it.
> 

No, values don't break an is-a relationship.  If the default values do,
then you have an invalid relationship in the first place.

>>                                                                And yes,
>> the derived class can change the behavior of the base class - either
>> with or without default values.  But then that is part of the reason for
>> having a derived class, is it not?
> 
> Actually not.
> 
> Changing behavior is a very suspicious activity for a sub class.
> 

Not at all.  One of the purposes of a derived class might be to limit
the base class, for instance.  Take the relationships

Person -> Employee -> Manager

Manager is much more restrictive than Employee, which in turn is much
more restrictive than person.

> Adding missing behavior or adding behavior is what derived classes
> are supposed to do.
> 

That may be *one* of the things a derived class can do.  But one must be
careful - adding a behavior which is not normal to the base class
generally indicates an invalid relationship.

>> The bottom line here is - none of your arguments are related to the
>> presence or absence of default arguments.  All can occur either with or
>> without default arguments.
> 
> My argument relates specifically to different default values, so
> it can not happen without default arguments.
> 
> Arne
> 
> 

I stand by my statement.  Default values in a derived class which are
not valid for the base class indicates an invalid relationship in the
first place.

I would like to see an example of a valid relationship where your
default values cause a problem.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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Thread

How to assign an object to another in it method? parmenides <xparmenides@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-18 20:02 +0800
  Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-06-18 08:09 -0400
  Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2017-06-18 15:31 +0200
  Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-06-19 10:22 -0400
    Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 08:13 -0700
      Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-06-19 11:53 -0400
        Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 09:06 -0700
          Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-06-19 13:56 -0400
      Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? lewbloch@gmail.com - 2017-06-27 13:49 -0700
        Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-06-28 12:20 +0000
          Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-06-28 05:51 -0700
            Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-06-28 14:03 -0400
            Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-02 21:23 -0400
              Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-07-03 10:59 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-03 08:38 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-03 14:04 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-03 10:39 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-03 16:28 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-03 16:52 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-03 22:04 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-03 23:15 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-04 21:46 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-04 22:18 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-08 21:13 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-08 22:12 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-11 17:56 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-11 15:40 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-11 13:49 -0700
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-11 17:41 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-11 20:27 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-11 21:43 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-11 21:49 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-12 17:20 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-13 10:08 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-07-13 11:35 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-13 08:14 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-07-13 14:29 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-13 13:47 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-13 18:09 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-13 15:01 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-13 19:19 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-13 15:39 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-13 16:49 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-13 10:24 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-13 17:19 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-13 21:17 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-14 06:40 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-14 14:26 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-15 14:36 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-14 12:10 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-14 14:40 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-14 14:51 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-14 21:05 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-14 21:06 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? lewbloch@gmail.com - 2017-07-14 14:44 -0700
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@logic.at> - 2017-07-12 16:23 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-12 10:12 -0700
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-11 20:16 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-11 21:46 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-11 21:52 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-11 20:24 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-07-11 21:49 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-11 21:55 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-07-03 12:37 +0000
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-07-03 11:34 -0400
                Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-07-03 17:28 +0000
  Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-06-19 17:13 +0000
  Re: How to assign an object to another in it method? Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 13:40 -0700

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