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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #163666 > unrolled thread

Beware the microsoft cloud?

Started by"gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid>
First post2016-05-13 17:28 +0100
Last post2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 98 — 26 participants

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  Beware the microsoft cloud? "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-05-13 17:28 +0100
    Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? mentificium@gmail.com - 2016-05-14 09:22 -0700
    Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2016-05-21 12:31 +0000
      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-21 13:16 +0000
        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-22 13:15 +0000
          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 09:58 -0400
            Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-23 11:49 +0000
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-23 11:56 +0000
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-23 15:02 +0000
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 20:57 +0100
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-23 16:19 +0100
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 04:02 +1000
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-24 10:59 -0500
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-23 14:30 -0400
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-23 14:04 -0500
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-23 23:23 -0400
                    Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-05-24 04:40 +0000
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 12:48 -0400
                          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-25 07:47 -0400
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-05-24 17:43 +0000
                          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 14:13 -0400
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 12:38 -0400
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-05-24 17:55 +0000
                          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-24 20:25 +0200
                          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 15:02 -0400
                            Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-05-24 20:51 +0000
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-24 19:24 +0000
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 14:38 -0500
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-23 23:28 -0400
                    Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:03 -0500
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:28 +0200
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 12:52 -0400
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 12:33 -0500
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-24 17:17 -0400
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 17:23 -0500
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-25 07:47 -0400
                    Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-24 11:55 -0400
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-24 17:16 -0400
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-24 21:31 +0000
                          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 07:37 +0200
                            Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 07:24 -0400
                              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-26 13:57 +0100
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 07:36 +0200
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-05-25 06:53 +0100
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-23 19:56 -0500
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 12:42 -0400
                    Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 12:28 -0500
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-24 21:57 -0400
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-24 11:55 -0400
          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-22 16:42 +0000
            Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-23 11:49 +0000
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-23 15:01 +0000
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-24 13:33 +0100
                    Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:00 +0000
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-24 14:16 +0100
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:04 +0200
                    Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-25 13:11 +0000
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 16:28 +0200
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-25 16:15 -0400
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 10:31 +0100
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-24 17:12 -0400
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-24 21:27 +0000
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-23 16:04 +0100
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-23 17:15 +0000
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:00 +0000
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-05-23 16:25 -0300
          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:04 +1000
          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-23 06:40 +0100
          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-23 16:16 +0200
          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-23 19:58 -0500
          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? pechter@t61.(none) (William Pechter) - 2016-05-29 20:35 +0000
      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2016-05-23 12:53 -0400
        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:08 +0200
            Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-25 13:11 +0000
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 16:22 +0200
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-25 17:51 +0000
          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2016-06-01 13:16 -0400
            Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? mausg@mail.com - 2016-06-01 20:59 +0000
            Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 16:39 +0000
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-02 20:44 +0000
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
              Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 15:04 +0100
                Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:44 +0000
                  Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 23:22 +0100
                    Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-04 19:02 -0700
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 05:14 -0400
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-05 17:38 +0000
                          Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 14:39 -0400
                      Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 10:08 -0500
                        Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 12:44 -0500
                    Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000

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#163913

FromMichael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Date2016-05-24 12:48 -0400
Message-ID<alpine.LNX.2.02.1605241243160.20600@darkstar.example.org>
In reply to#163893
On Tue, 24 May 2016, jmfbahciv wrote:

> Alfred Falk wrote:
>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
>> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605232317380.19694@darkstar.example.org:
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Osmium wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Michael Black" wrotee:
>>>>
>>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy did
>>>>> a family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about 2009
>>>>> I started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.  Not
>>>>> just the family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am sort of
>>>>> torn, on one hand the family did have some role in "history", but at
>>>>> the same time, they left a lot of paper around, so it's easier for
>>>>> people to study them.
>>>>
>>>> I never thought of my grandmother as a social butterfly but I found an
>>>> internet account of her hosting her card club in the 1930s.  I looked
>>>> for it recently and it had "gone missing" as people sometimes say.
>>>>
>>> I've been saving some of the stuff locally, precisely because I don't
>>> trust that it will remain in place.  Some cousin I'd never heard of had
>>> the family tree up on his page, but that's disappeared, I fear he's
>>> disappeared too.
>>>
>>> It is shakey.  My great, great grandmother Henrietta is in the Canadian
>>> Museum of History, at least their webpage, just a small bit
>>> representing half breeds.  Her picture is readily available elsewhere,
>>> I have a book with her photo in it. (I assume it's the only photo of
>>> her, it wasn't the time of snapshot cameras).  But museums change their
>>> displays, so I can imagine her getting bumped at some point.  There's
>>> no information at that site about her that isn't elsewhere, but it's
>>> kind of neat that she's there (and I assume because her photo and
>>> identity was already out there, not because she's that important).
>>>
>>> I figured if I made the trip to the actual museum, I'd say "You mean I
>>> don't get free entry?  But that's my great, great grandmother you have
>>> on display!".
>>>
>>> Some of her siblings got streets named after them in what became
>>> Winnipeg. But her younger sister Jemima (yes Aunt Jemima), who had self
>>> esteem issues (actually all the siblings suffered a bit from that), her
>>> street was renamed, so there's no longer a Jemima Street, just an Elgin
>>> Street.
>>
>> Elgin _Avenue_. Not far from the location of my earliest childhood memories.
>> And even closer to my first home, of which I have no memories.  A lot of the
>> short streets near there have women's names: Lulu, Dorothy, Gwendoline, etc.
>> I suppose the next avenue north is also named for your ancestors?
>
> It sounds like it was a matriarchical society.
>
No, but that's the neat thing.  It was a developing area, they needed 
names, so people used their children's names.  The historical value of the 
names is that they were "nobodies" at the time, just children of the 
people with enough clout to name the streets.  There is a James Street and 
and the oldest brother, suddenly I can't remember his name, gets a street 
named after him.  One of his daughters got a street named after her, too.

It was relatively small place at the time.  It's hard to keep track of 
who's who, because people remarried after an early death, names were even 
reused after a child died (though maybe with another name added) and there 
were at least two Jemimas.  SOmebody dies and a sibling remarries the 
remaining spouse.  So you have to look a bit further to see if that was 
the first wife or the second, or what.  There were the Gunns, and one of 
them thought he had Henrietta's hand in marriage, I'm not sure what she 
thought of it, and then a bit of falling out when she married John Black. 
But someone else married in the family married one of the Gunns.

   Michael

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#163960

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2016-05-25 07:47 -0400
Message-ID<1997394379.485869123.493118.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#163913
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 May 2016, jmfbahciv wrote:
> 
>> Alfred Falk wrote:
>>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
>>> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605232317380.19694@darkstar.example.org:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Osmium wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> "Michael Black" wrotee:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy did
>>>>>> a family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about 2009
>>>>>> I started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.  Not
>>>>>> just the family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am sort of
>>>>>> torn, on one hand the family did have some role in "history", but at
>>>>>> the same time, they left a lot of paper around, so it's easier for
>>>>>> people to study them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I never thought of my grandmother as a social butterfly but I found an
>>>>> internet account of her hosting her card club in the 1930s.  I looked
>>>>> for it recently and it had "gone missing" as people sometimes say.
>>>>> 
>>>> I've been saving some of the stuff locally, precisely because I don't
>>>> trust that it will remain in place.  Some cousin I'd never heard of had
>>>> the family tree up on his page, but that's disappeared, I fear he's
>>>> disappeared too.
>>>> 
>>>> It is shakey.  My great, great grandmother Henrietta is in the Canadian
>>>> Museum of History, at least their webpage, just a small bit
>>>> representing half breeds.  Her picture is readily available elsewhere,
>>>> I have a book with her photo in it. (I assume it's the only photo of
>>>> her, it wasn't the time of snapshot cameras).  But museums change their
>>>> displays, so I can imagine her getting bumped at some point.  There's
>>>> no information at that site about her that isn't elsewhere, but it's
>>>> kind of neat that she's there (and I assume because her photo and
>>>> identity was already out there, not because she's that important).
>>>> 
>>>> I figured if I made the trip to the actual museum, I'd say "You mean I
>>>> don't get free entry?  But that's my great, great grandmother you have
>>>> on display!".
>>>> 
>>>> Some of her siblings got streets named after them in what became
>>>> Winnipeg. But her younger sister Jemima (yes Aunt Jemima), who had self
>>>> esteem issues (actually all the siblings suffered a bit from that), her
>>>> street was renamed, so there's no longer a Jemima Street, just an Elgin
>>>> Street.
>>> 
>>> Elgin _Avenue_. Not far from the location of my earliest childhood memories.
>>> And even closer to my first home, of which I have no memories.  A lot of the
>>> short streets near there have women's names: Lulu, Dorothy, Gwendoline, etc.
>>> I suppose the next avenue north is also named for your ancestors?
>> 
>> It sounds like it was a matriarchical society.
>> 
> No, but that's the neat thing.  It was a developing area, they needed 
> names, so people used their children's names.  

They still do.  I see a lot of subdivisions with "Lori Lane", "Asleigh
Circle", etc.

The historical value of the 
> names is that they were "nobodies" at the time, just children of the 
> people with enough clout to name the streets.  There is a James Street and 
> and the oldest brother, suddenly I can't remember his name, gets a street 
> named after him.  One of his daughters got a street named after her, too.
> 
> It was relatively small place at the time.  It's hard to keep track of 
> who's who, because people remarried after an early death, names were even 
> reused after a child died (though maybe with another name added) and there 
> were at least two Jemimas.  SOmebody dies and a sibling remarries the 
> remaining spouse.  So you have to look a bit further to see if that was 
> the first wife or the second, or what.  There were the Gunns, and one of 
> them thought he had Henrietta's hand in marriage, I'm not sure what she 
> thought of it, and then a bit of falling out when she married John Black. 
> But someone else married in the family married one of the Gunns.
> 
>   Michael
> 
> 



-- 
Pete

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#163918

FromAlfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>
Date2016-05-24 17:43 +0000
Message-ID<XnsA61277D52FD87falkarcabca@213.239.209.88>
In reply to#163893
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote in
news:PM000533953B662FEF@aca423de.ipt.aol.com: 

> Alfred Falk wrote:
>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
>> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605232317380.19694@darkstar.example.org: 
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Osmium wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Michael Black" wrotee:
>>>>
>>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy
>>>>> did a family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about
>>>>> 2009 I started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.
>>>>>  Not just the family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am
>>>>> sort of torn, on one hand the family did have some role in
>>>>> "history", but at the same time, they left a lot of paper around,
>>>>> so it's easier for people to study them. 
>>>>
>>>> I never thought of my grandmother as a social butterfly but I found
>>>> an internet account of her hosting her card club in the 1930s.  I
>>>> looked for it recently and it had "gone missing" as people sometimes
>>>> say. 
>>>>
>>> I've been saving some of the stuff locally, precisely because I don't
>>> trust that it will remain in place.  Some cousin I'd never heard of
>>> had the family tree up on his page, but that's disappeared, I fear
>>> he's disappeared too.
>>>
>>> It is shakey.  My great, great grandmother Henrietta is in the
>>> Canadian Museum of History, at least their webpage, just a small bit
>>> representing half breeds.  Her picture is readily available
>>> elsewhere, I have a book with her photo in it. (I assume it's the
>>> only photo of her, it wasn't the time of snapshot cameras).  But
>>> museums change their displays, so I can imagine her getting bumped at
>>> some point.  There's no information at that site about her that isn't
>>> elsewhere, but it's kind of neat that she's there (and I assume
>>> because her photo and identity was already out there, not because
>>> she's that important). 
>>>
>>> I figured if I made the trip to the actual museum, I'd say "You mean
>>> I don't get free entry?  But that's my great, great grandmother you
>>> have on display!".
>>>
>>> Some of her siblings got streets named after them in what became
>>> Winnipeg. But her younger sister Jemima (yes Aunt Jemima), who had
>>> self esteem issues (actually all the siblings suffered a bit from
>>> that), her street was renamed, so there's no longer a Jemima Street,
>>> just an Elgin Street.
>>
>> Elgin _Avenue_. Not far from the location of my earliest childhood
>> memories. And even closer to my first home, of which I have no
>> memories.  A lot of the short streets near there have women's names:
>> Lulu, Dorothy, Gwendoline, etc. I suppose the next avenue north is
>> also named for your ancestors? 
> 
> It sounds like it was a matriarchical society.

Not really.  The streets with girls' names are almost all short and 
inconsequential residential.  The important thoroughfares are mostly 
surnames, genereally recognizing important maen.  I would not be surprised 
to learn that the rationale for changing "Jemima" to "Elgin" was along those 
lines.  I'm pretty sure there was no direct connection to Winnipeg, but the 
8th Lord Elgin was important in Canadian History as Governor of Upper and 
Lower Canada. Or it might have been to honour some man from Elginshire.  (I 
haven't researched this.)
 
> /BAH

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#163924

FromMichael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Date2016-05-24 14:13 -0400
Message-ID<alpine.LNX.2.02.1605241413001.20742@darkstar.example.org>
In reply to#163918
On Tue, 24 May 2016, Alfred Falk wrote:

> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote in
> news:PM000533953B662FEF@aca423de.ipt.aol.com:
>
>> Alfred Falk wrote:
>>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
>>> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605232317380.19694@darkstar.example.org:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Osmium wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Michael Black" wrotee:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy
>>>>>> did a family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about
>>>>>> 2009 I started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.
>>>>>>  Not just the family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am
>>>>>> sort of torn, on one hand the family did have some role in
>>>>>> "history", but at the same time, they left a lot of paper around,
>>>>>> so it's easier for people to study them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I never thought of my grandmother as a social butterfly but I found
>>>>> an internet account of her hosting her card club in the 1930s.  I
>>>>> looked for it recently and it had "gone missing" as people sometimes
>>>>> say.
>>>>>
>>>> I've been saving some of the stuff locally, precisely because I don't
>>>> trust that it will remain in place.  Some cousin I'd never heard of
>>>> had the family tree up on his page, but that's disappeared, I fear
>>>> he's disappeared too.
>>>>
>>>> It is shakey.  My great, great grandmother Henrietta is in the
>>>> Canadian Museum of History, at least their webpage, just a small bit
>>>> representing half breeds.  Her picture is readily available
>>>> elsewhere, I have a book with her photo in it. (I assume it's the
>>>> only photo of her, it wasn't the time of snapshot cameras).  But
>>>> museums change their displays, so I can imagine her getting bumped at
>>>> some point.  There's no information at that site about her that isn't
>>>> elsewhere, but it's kind of neat that she's there (and I assume
>>>> because her photo and identity was already out there, not because
>>>> she's that important).
>>>>
>>>> I figured if I made the trip to the actual museum, I'd say "You mean
>>>> I don't get free entry?  But that's my great, great grandmother you
>>>> have on display!".
>>>>
>>>> Some of her siblings got streets named after them in what became
>>>> Winnipeg. But her younger sister Jemima (yes Aunt Jemima), who had
>>>> self esteem issues (actually all the siblings suffered a bit from
>>>> that), her street was renamed, so there's no longer a Jemima Street,
>>>> just an Elgin Street.
>>>
>>> Elgin _Avenue_. Not far from the location of my earliest childhood
>>> memories. And even closer to my first home, of which I have no
>>> memories.  A lot of the short streets near there have women's names:
>>> Lulu, Dorothy, Gwendoline, etc. I suppose the next avenue north is
>>> also named for your ancestors?
>>
>> It sounds like it was a matriarchical society.
>
> Not really.  The streets with girls' names are almost all short and
> inconsequential residential.  The important thoroughfares are mostly
> surnames, genereally recognizing important maen.  I would not be surprised
> to learn that the rationale for changing "Jemima" to "Elgin" was along those
> lines.  I'm pretty sure there was no direct connection to Winnipeg, but the
> 8th Lord Elgin was important in Canadian History as Governor of Upper and
> Lower Canada. Or it might have been to honour some man from Elginshire.  (I
> haven't researched this.)
>
I just assumed it was named after Lord Elgin, but no, I didn't see 
anything to actually suggest that.  I was thinking "he has lots of places 
named after him".

   Michael

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#163911

FromMichael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Date2016-05-24 12:38 -0400
Message-ID<alpine.LNX.2.02.1605241232390.20600@darkstar.example.org>
In reply to#163887
On Tue, 24 May 2016, Alfred Falk wrote:

> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605232317380.19694@darkstar.example.org:
>
>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Osmium wrote:
>>
>>> "Michael Black" wrotee:
>>>
>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy did
>>>> a family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about 2009
>>>> I started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.  Not
>>>> just the family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am sort of
>>>> torn, on one hand the family did have some role in "history", but at
>>>> the same time, they left a lot of paper around, so it's easier for
>>>> people to study them.
>>>
>>> I never thought of my grandmother as a social butterfly but I found an
>>> internet account of her hosting her card club in the 1930s.  I looked
>>> for it recently and it had "gone missing" as people sometimes say.
>>>
>> I've been saving some of the stuff locally, precisely because I don't
>> trust that it will remain in place.  Some cousin I'd never heard of had
>> the family tree up on his page, but that's disappeared, I fear he's
>> disappeared too.
>>
>> It is shakey.  My great, great grandmother Henrietta is in the Canadian
>> Museum of History, at least their webpage, just a small bit
>> representing half breeds.  Her picture is readily available elsewhere,
>> I have a book with her photo in it. (I assume it's the only photo of
>> her, it wasn't the time of snapshot cameras).  But museums change their
>> displays, so I can imagine her getting bumped at some point.  There's
>> no information at that site about her that isn't elsewhere, but it's
>> kind of neat that she's there (and I assume because her photo and
>> identity was already out there, not because she's that important).
>>
>> I figured if I made the trip to the actual museum, I'd say "You mean I
>> don't get free entry?  But that's my great, great grandmother you have
>> on display!".
>>
>> Some of her siblings got streets named after them in what became
>> Winnipeg. But her younger sister Jemima (yes Aunt Jemima), who had self
>> esteem issues (actually all the siblings suffered a bit from that), her
>> street was renamed, so there's no longer a Jemima Street, just an Elgin
>> Street.
>
> Elgin _Avenue_. Not far from the location of my earliest childhood memories.
> And even closer to my first home, of which I have no memories.  A lot of the
> short streets near there have women's names: Lulu, Dorothy, Gwendoline, etc.
> I suppose the next avenue north is also named for your ancestors?
>
I haven't looked at a map, I just found some old historical society 
article about where the street names came from.

I assume the streets were named very early, rather than in retrospect.  So 
they are first names, just "plain people" who's father had the clout to 
name the streets after them. James Street is for Henrietta's brother, 
chief justice in the provisional government.  Not even a last name.

I assume other families had say in the street naming, so those you name 
are likely named after the daughters of other gentry.

On the other hand, there is John Black Avenue, after Henrietta's husband. 
That's less generic than James Street. I guess that's why she doesn't get 
a street named after her.  There's also  John Black United Church, they 
had their 100th anniversary last year or 
the year before.

And then I found that Winnipeg can't sell the old police HQ, because it 
was land sold to the early city of Winnipeg for a good price by the 
cousins, on the condition it be used for the public good (I forget the 
exact words).  So if the city sells it, the money reverts to the cousins. 
I think it was at the level of my great grandfather William Ross Black, 
his cousins sold off land that had originally been my great, great, great 
grandfather's.  I guess Henrietta never got any of it since she was a 
woman, her husband supposed to supply the land.

   Michael

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#163919

FromAlfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>
Date2016-05-24 17:55 +0000
Message-ID<XnsA61279EB69B87falkarcabca@213.239.209.88>
In reply to#163911
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605241232390.20600@darkstar.example.org: 

> On Tue, 24 May 2016, Alfred Falk wrote:
> 
>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
>> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605232317380.19694@darkstar.example.org: 
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Osmium wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Michael Black" wrotee:
>>>>
>>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy
>>>>> did a family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about
>>>>> 2009 I started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.
>>>>>  Not just the family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am
>>>>> sort of torn, on one hand the family did have some role in
>>>>> "history", but at the same time, they left a lot of paper around,
>>>>> so it's easier for people to study them. 
>>>>
>>>> I never thought of my grandmother as a social butterfly but I found
>>>> an internet account of her hosting her card club in the 1930s.  I
>>>> looked for it recently and it had "gone missing" as people sometimes
>>>> say. 
>>>>
>>> I've been saving some of the stuff locally, precisely because I don't
>>> trust that it will remain in place.  Some cousin I'd never heard of
>>> had the family tree up on his page, but that's disappeared, I fear
>>> he's disappeared too.
>>>
>>> It is shakey.  My great, great grandmother Henrietta is in the
>>> Canadian Museum of History, at least their webpage, just a small bit
>>> representing half breeds.  Her picture is readily available
>>> elsewhere, I have a book with her photo in it. (I assume it's the
>>> only photo of her, it wasn't the time of snapshot cameras).  But
>>> museums change their displays, so I can imagine her getting bumped at
>>> some point.  There's no information at that site about her that isn't
>>> elsewhere, but it's kind of neat that she's there (and I assume
>>> because her photo and identity was already out there, not because
>>> she's that important). 
>>>
>>> I figured if I made the trip to the actual museum, I'd say "You mean
>>> I don't get free entry?  But that's my great, great grandmother you
>>> have on display!".
>>>
>>> Some of her siblings got streets named after them in what became
>>> Winnipeg. But her younger sister Jemima (yes Aunt Jemima), who had
>>> self esteem issues (actually all the siblings suffered a bit from
>>> that), her street was renamed, so there's no longer a Jemima Street,
>>> just an Elgin Street.
>>
>> Elgin _Avenue_. Not far from the location of my earliest childhood
>> memories. And even closer to my first home, of which I have no
>> memories.  A lot of the short streets near there have women's names:
>> Lulu, Dorothy, Gwendoline, etc. I suppose the next avenue north is
>> also named for your ancestors? 
>>
> I haven't looked at a map, I just found some old historical society 
> article about where the street names came from.
> 
> I assume the streets were named very early, rather than in retrospect. 
> So they are first names, just "plain people" who's father had the clout
> to name the streets after them. James Street is for Henrietta's
> brother, chief justice in the provisional government.  Not even a last
> name. 
> 
> I assume other families had say in the street naming, so those you name
> are likely named after the daughters of other gentry.
> 
> On the other hand, there is John Black Avenue, after Henrietta's
> husband. That's less generic than James Street. I guess that's why she
> doesn't get a street named after her.  There's also  John Black United
> Church, they had their 100th anniversary last year or 
> the year before.
 
> And then I found that Winnipeg can't sell the old police HQ, because it
> was land sold to the early city of Winnipeg for a good price by the 
> cousins, on the condition it be used for the public good (I forget the 
> exact words).  So if the city sells it, the money reverts to the
> cousins.

I think such caveats were fairly common.  When Winnipeg built its new city 
hall in the 1960's they used land that was given or sold to city for the 
explicit purpose of being a farmers' market.  That use was fading then, but 
there were legal battles.  There have been similar situations in Edmonton 
where I live now.

> I think it was at the level of my great grandfather William
> Ross Black, his cousins sold off land that had originally been my
> great, great, great grandfather's.  I guess Henrietta never got any of
> it since she was a woman, her husband supposed to supply the land.

>    Michael
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#163925

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-05-24 20:25 +0200
Message-ID<8uie1d-j61.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#163919
In article <XnsA61279EB69B87falkarcabca@213.239.209.88>,
Alfred Falk  <falk@arc.ab.ca> wrote:
>Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
>news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605241232390.20600@darkstar.example.org: 
>
>> On Tue, 24 May 2016, Alfred Falk wrote:
>> 
>>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
>>> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605232317380.19694@darkstar.example.org: 
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Osmium wrote:
>>>>

>I think such caveats were fairly common.  When Winnipeg built its new city 
>hall in the 1960's they used land that was given or sold to city for the 
>explicit purpose of being a farmers' market.  That use was fading then, but 
>there were legal battles.  There have been similar situations in Edmonton 
>where I live now.

The very rural Swedish railroad "inlandsbanan" (Inland Railroad, direct
translation) had a similar issue a decade ago. They wanted to shut down
train traffic, but discovered that that meant returning almost all the
land to the original owners. And, i the mean time there had been a _lot_
of telecom (copper&fiber) installed alongside it, some on 40-year 
irrevocable leases to telcos.

The original deeds (and quite a few wills too) transferred the land for
the explicit purpuse of railroad use, and these were done 1927-1933; so
there was still a few decades until the 100 year clause of Roman law
struck. The original owners very much wanted the railroad to be built.

So, they had to continue a minimal train service. A side effect of this
is that the Steam affictionados now have a 1600 km long playground for
theur excursions. Last year there were two all-steam luxury trains
Amsterdam-Gallivare and back, being pulled to Mora, and then run on
their own power the remaining 60% of the distance. (The trains may have
run all the way to Narvik, but heing pulled the last ~250 km).

-- mrr

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#163930

FromMichael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Date2016-05-24 15:02 -0400
Message-ID<alpine.LNX.2.02.1605241458510.20979@darkstar.example.org>
In reply to#163919
On Tue, 24 May 2016, Alfred Falk wrote:

> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605241232390.20600@darkstar.example.org:
>
>> On Tue, 24 May 2016, Alfred Falk wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
>>> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605232317380.19694@darkstar.example.org:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Osmium wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Michael Black" wrotee:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy
>>>>>> did a family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about
>>>>>> 2009 I started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.
>>>>>>  Not just the family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am
>>>>>> sort of torn, on one hand the family did have some role in
>>>>>> "history", but at the same time, they left a lot of paper around,
>>>>>> so it's easier for people to study them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I never thought of my grandmother as a social butterfly but I found
>>>>> an internet account of her hosting her card club in the 1930s.  I
>>>>> looked for it recently and it had "gone missing" as people sometimes
>>>>> say.
>>>>>
>>>> I've been saving some of the stuff locally, precisely because I don't
>>>> trust that it will remain in place.  Some cousin I'd never heard of
>>>> had the family tree up on his page, but that's disappeared, I fear
>>>> he's disappeared too.
>>>>
>>>> It is shakey.  My great, great grandmother Henrietta is in the
>>>> Canadian Museum of History, at least their webpage, just a small bit
>>>> representing half breeds.  Her picture is readily available
>>>> elsewhere, I have a book with her photo in it. (I assume it's the
>>>> only photo of her, it wasn't the time of snapshot cameras).  But
>>>> museums change their displays, so I can imagine her getting bumped at
>>>> some point.  There's no information at that site about her that isn't
>>>> elsewhere, but it's kind of neat that she's there (and I assume
>>>> because her photo and identity was already out there, not because
>>>> she's that important).
>>>>
>>>> I figured if I made the trip to the actual museum, I'd say "You mean
>>>> I don't get free entry?  But that's my great, great grandmother you
>>>> have on display!".
>>>>
>>>> Some of her siblings got streets named after them in what became
>>>> Winnipeg. But her younger sister Jemima (yes Aunt Jemima), who had
>>>> self esteem issues (actually all the siblings suffered a bit from
>>>> that), her street was renamed, so there's no longer a Jemima Street,
>>>> just an Elgin Street.
>>>
>>> Elgin _Avenue_. Not far from the location of my earliest childhood
>>> memories. And even closer to my first home, of which I have no
>>> memories.  A lot of the short streets near there have women's names:
>>> Lulu, Dorothy, Gwendoline, etc. I suppose the next avenue north is
>>> also named for your ancestors?
>>>
>> I haven't looked at a map, I just found some old historical society
>> article about where the street names came from.
>>
>> I assume the streets were named very early, rather than in retrospect.
>> So they are first names, just "plain people" who's father had the clout
>> to name the streets after them. James Street is for Henrietta's
>> brother, chief justice in the provisional government.  Not even a last
>> name.
>>
>> I assume other families had say in the street naming, so those you name
>> are likely named after the daughters of other gentry.
>>
>> On the other hand, there is John Black Avenue, after Henrietta's
>> husband. That's less generic than James Street. I guess that's why she
>> doesn't get a street named after her.  There's also  John Black United
>> Church, they had their 100th anniversary last year or
>> the year before.
>
>> And then I found that Winnipeg can't sell the old police HQ, because it
>> was land sold to the early city of Winnipeg for a good price by the
>> cousins, on the condition it be used for the public good (I forget the
>> exact words).  So if the city sells it, the money reverts to the
>> cousins.
>
> I think such caveats were fairly common.  When Winnipeg built its new city
> hall in the 1960's they used land that was given or sold to city for the
> explicit purpose of being a farmers' market.  That use was fading then, but
> there were legal battles.  There have been similar situations in Edmonton
> where I live now.
>
That maybe was family land.  I gather there are some other municipal 
buildings that were on that land.

But, some of the land was also used for a public market.  What I read was 
that it was used as a meeting place during the Great Winnipeg Strike, and 
the way the piece read, it wasn't used as a market after that.  But maybe 
this was a different bit of land.

I'm not reading history linearly, I'm doing searches and finding little 
bits here and there, people's interpretations of what they read or knew.


Yes, it's not uncommon.  Here in Montreal, we had the Dow Planetarium, a 
beer company that disappeared not long after.  Some years back, the city 
decided a new planetarium was needed, it was seen as easier to build anew 
than revamp the old one.  So the land was up for grabs, but it had that 
rider on it.  After some years, one of the universities came up with some 
use for it, which seems acceptable to all.

   Michael

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#163936

FromAlfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>
Date2016-05-24 20:51 +0000
Message-ID<XnsA61297CA614F2falkarcabca@213.239.209.88>
In reply to#163930
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605241458510.20979@darkstar.example.org: 

> On Tue, 24 May 2016, Alfred Falk wrote:
> 
>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
>> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605241232390.20600@darkstar.example.org: 
>>
>>> On Tue, 24 May 2016, Alfred Falk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in
>>>> news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1605232317380.19694@darkstar.example.org: 
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, Osmium wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Michael Black" wrotee:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy
>>>>>>> did a family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then
>>>>>>> about 2009 I started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is
>>>>>>> online. 
>>>>>>>  Not just the family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am
>>>>>>> sort of torn, on one hand the family did have some role in
>>>>>>> "history", but at the same time, they left a lot of paper around,
>>>>>>> so it's easier for people to study them. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never thought of my grandmother as a social butterfly but I
>>>>>> found an internet account of her hosting her card club in the
>>>>>> 1930s.  I looked for it recently and it had "gone missing" as
>>>>>> people sometimes say. 
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've been saving some of the stuff locally, precisely because I
>>>>> don't trust that it will remain in place.  Some cousin I'd never
>>>>> heard of had the family tree up on his page, but that's
>>>>> disappeared, I fear he's disappeared too.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is shakey.  My great, great grandmother Henrietta is in the
>>>>> Canadian Museum of History, at least their webpage, just a small
>>>>> bit representing half breeds.  Her picture is readily available
>>>>> elsewhere, I have a book with her photo in it. (I assume it's the
>>>>> only photo of her, it wasn't the time of snapshot cameras).  But
>>>>> museums change their displays, so I can imagine her getting bumped
>>>>> at some point.  There's no information at that site about her that
>>>>> isn't elsewhere, but it's kind of neat that she's there (and I
>>>>> assume because her photo and identity was already out there, not
>>>>> because she's that important).
>>>>>
>>>>> I figured if I made the trip to the actual museum, I'd say "You
>>>>> mean I don't get free entry?  But that's my great, great
>>>>> grandmother you have on display!".
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of her siblings got streets named after them in what became
>>>>> Winnipeg. But her younger sister Jemima (yes Aunt Jemima), who had
>>>>> self esteem issues (actually all the siblings suffered a bit from
>>>>> that), her street was renamed, so there's no longer a Jemima
>>>>> Street, just an Elgin Street. 
>>>>
>>>> Elgin _Avenue_. Not far from the location of my earliest childhood
>>>> memories. And even closer to my first home, of which I have no
>>>> memories.  A lot of the short streets near there have women's names:
>>>> Lulu, Dorothy, Gwendoline, etc. I suppose the next avenue north is
>>>> also named for your ancestors?
>>>>
>>> I haven't looked at a map, I just found some old historical society
>>> article about where the street names came from.
>>>
>>> I assume the streets were named very early, rather than in
>>> retrospect. So they are first names, just "plain people" who's father
>>> had the clout to name the streets after them. James Street is for
>>> Henrietta's brother, chief justice in the provisional government. 
>>> Not even a last name. 
>>>
>>> I assume other families had say in the street naming, so those you
>>> name are likely named after the daughters of other gentry.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, there is John Black Avenue, after Henrietta's
>>> husband. That's less generic than James Street. I guess that's why
>>> she doesn't get a street named after her.  There's also  John Black
>>> United Church, they had their 100th anniversary last year or the year
>>> before. 
>>
>>> And then I found that Winnipeg can't sell the old police HQ, because
>>> it was land sold to the early city of Winnipeg for a good price by
>>> the cousins, on the condition it be used for the public good (I
>>> forget the exact words).  So if the city sells it, the money reverts
>>> to the cousins. 
>>
>> I think such caveats were fairly common.  When Winnipeg built its new
>> city hall in the 1960's they used land that was given or sold to city
>> for the explicit purpose of being a farmers' market.  That use was
>> fading then, but there were legal battles.  There have been similar
>> situations in Edmonton where I live now.
>>
> That maybe was family land.  I gather there are some other municipal 
> buildings that were on that land.
> 
> But, some of the land was also used for a public market.  What I read
> was that it was used as a meeting place during the Great Winnipeg
> Strike, and the way the piece read, it wasn't used as a market after
> that.  But maybe this was a different bit of land.

The public markets may have been quite extensive in 1919.  Market Avenue 
today is east of Main Street.  The current city hall is on the site of the 
old market.  There is a park south of city hall named "Old Market Square".  
(The previous, 2nd, 1888 city hall was on the other side of Main Street 
where the Manitoba Meseum na Centenial Concert Hall are today.)
My memories of the old market are from childhood when I didn't have much 
geographic sense of where things: we got in the car, drove past buildings, 
familiar and unfamiliar, and got there.  Also mostly eveinings in in October 
when the market and surrounding retailers were open late.

Google Maps is a quick and easy way to "tour" the area, incicdentally.

> I'm not reading history linearly, I'm doing searches and finding little
> bits here and there, people's interpretations of what they read or
> knew. 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's not uncommon.  Here in Montreal, we had the Dow Planetarium,
> a beer company that disappeared not long after.  Some years back, the
> city decided a new planetarium was needed, it was seen as easier to
> build anew than revamp the old one.  So the land was up for grabs, but
> it had that rider on it.  After some years, one of the universities
> came up with some use for it, which seems acceptable to all.
> 
>    Michael

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#163931

Frommausg@mail.com
Date2016-05-24 19:24 +0000
Message-ID<slrnnk9ai5.191.mausg@Smaus.org>
In reply to#163911
On 2016-05-24, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 May 2016, Alfred Falk wrote:
>
> had their 100th anniversary last year or 
> the year before.
>
> And then I found that Winnipeg can't sell the old police HQ, because it 
> was land sold to the early city of Winnipeg for a good price by the 
> cousins, on the condition it be used for the public good (I forget the 
> exact words).  So if the city sells it, the money reverts to the cousins. 
> I think it was at the level of my great grandfather William Ross Black, 
> his cousins sold off land that had originally been my great, great, great 
> grandfather's.  I guess Henrietta never got any of it since she was a 
> woman, her husband supposed to supply the land.
>
>    Michael
>

THis happens fairly often. the period, say, 1850-1914, was a period when
it was socially advantagous to donate stuff to the `greater good' amd
it was assumed that that would be the case forever. For an instance, 
I know case when a landowner signed over a forest park to the community
to be used by the community. Reecntly the landowners descendent took an 
action against the Irish State for the return of the land, as it had 
not been maintained properly. The case was settled with agreement, they got
most of their land back 


-- 
greymaus.eircom.ie
 .
  .
...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#163871

FromJimP <solosam90@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-23 14:38 -0500
Message-ID<fum6kb50tp1gsk40ntg65b4tkt3vh297mt@4ax.com>
In reply to#163864
On Mon, 23 May 2016 14:30:49 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 23 May 2016, jmfbahciv wrote:
>
>
>> Women in the knitting group I attend are using the cloud to store
>> all of their family pictures.  Historians and archaeologists aren't
>> going to have much paper and things to mine.
>>
>Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy did a 
>family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about 2009 I 
>started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.  Not just the 
>family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am sort of torn, on one 
>hand the family did have some role in "history", but at the same time, 
>they left a lot of paper around, so it's easier for people to study them.
>
>But most of what I've found, it was written up by various historical 
>societies decades ago, and that's what's been digitized.
>
>So I can't find online the letter where my great, great grandmother 
>Henrietta says in 1854 "I would rather not go to [eastern] Canada;
>how would I an uneducated dark halfbreed look among the fair and 
>accomplished ladies".  But I did find a paper that quoted that line, which 
>happens to be online.
>
>So the stuff was already salvaged long before the digital era, though I 
>have no idea if others collected it or if the family donated it somewhere 
>intact.
>
>   Michael

Some of my ancestors are easy to find out about, some of the cousins
and others, did detail work that goes back to the 1600s. Others, well,
I cannot find anything on them previous to about 1950.

-- 
JimP.

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#163885

FromMichael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Date2016-05-23 23:28 -0400
Message-ID<alpine.LNX.2.02.1605232324200.19694@darkstar.example.org>
In reply to#163871
On Mon, 23 May 2016, JimP wrote:

> On Mon, 23 May 2016 14:30:49 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Women in the knitting group I attend are using the cloud to store
>>> all of their family pictures.  Historians and archaeologists aren't
>>> going to have much paper and things to mine.
>>>
>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy did a
>> family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about 2009 I
>> started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.  Not just the
>> family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am sort of torn, on one
>> hand the family did have some role in "history", but at the same time,
>> they left a lot of paper around, so it's easier for people to study them.
>>
>> But most of what I've found, it was written up by various historical
>> societies decades ago, and that's what's been digitized.
>>
>> So I can't find online the letter where my great, great grandmother
>> Henrietta says in 1854 "I would rather not go to [eastern] Canada;
>> how would I an uneducated dark halfbreed look among the fair and
>> accomplished ladies".  But I did find a paper that quoted that line, which
>> happens to be online.
>>
>> So the stuff was already salvaged long before the digital era, though I
>> have no idea if others collected it or if the family donated it somewhere
>> intact.
>>
>>   Michael
>
> Some of my ancestors are easy to find out about, some of the cousins
> and others, did detail work that goes back to the 1600s. Others, well,
> I cannot find anything on them previous to about 1950.
>
The 1600s is "long ago", for North America.  That branch of the family 
only goes back to the early 1800s, though of course the family has always 
been here.

"Mourning Dove" was maybe the first native woman to have a novel 
published, though there is some debate.  But she wrote an autobiography, 
in the early 1900s but not published till 20 or 30 years ago.

She mentions my family, "the Timentwas never trusted white people after 
their daughter moved away", which has to be when they moved to the Red 
River Colony (what became Winnipeg, Manitoba).  I can't help but think 
that was put in the book because my great, great, great grandfather was 
known at the time, having written some books, including about the early 
days of the fur trade in the pacific northwest.

   Michael

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#163903

FromJimP <solosam90@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-24 09:03 -0500
Message-ID<mhn8kbpv0dinkl29d52olcnqcbqi2of9b3@4ax.com>
In reply to#163885
On Mon, 23 May 2016 23:28:13 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
wrote:

>On Mon, 23 May 2016, JimP wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 May 2016 14:30:49 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Women in the knitting group I attend are using the cloud to store
>>>> all of their family pictures.  Historians and archaeologists aren't
>>>> going to have much paper and things to mine.
>>>>
>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy did a
>>> family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about 2009 I
>>> started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.  Not just the
>>> family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am sort of torn, on one
>>> hand the family did have some role in "history", but at the same time,
>>> they left a lot of paper around, so it's easier for people to study them.
>>>
>>> But most of what I've found, it was written up by various historical
>>> societies decades ago, and that's what's been digitized.
>>>
>>> So I can't find online the letter where my great, great grandmother
>>> Henrietta says in 1854 "I would rather not go to [eastern] Canada;
>>> how would I an uneducated dark halfbreed look among the fair and
>>> accomplished ladies".  But I did find a paper that quoted that line, which
>>> happens to be online.
>>>
>>> So the stuff was already salvaged long before the digital era, though I
>>> have no idea if others collected it or if the family donated it somewhere
>>> intact.
>>>
>>>   Michael
>>
>> Some of my ancestors are easy to find out about, some of the cousins
>> and others, did detail work that goes back to the 1600s. Others, well,
>> I cannot find anything on them previous to about 1950.
>>
>The 1600s is "long ago", for North America.  That branch of the family 
>only goes back to the early 1800s, though of course the family has always 
>been here.

Europe for the 1600s for my ancestors. The Hundred Years War destroyed
lots of documents on births, marriages, and deaths as Churches were
burned.

>"Mourning Dove" was maybe the first native woman to have a novel 
>published, though there is some debate.  But she wrote an autobiography, 
>in the early 1900s but not published till 20 or 30 years ago.

I don't know the names of my Native American ancestors, but Native
Americans have told me I am Native American by looking at my face.
Ancestry DNA doesn't find it though.

-- 
JimP.

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#163910

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2016-05-24 18:28 +0200
Message-ID<k2ce1d-gq.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#163903
In article <mhn8kbpv0dinkl29d52olcnqcbqi2of9b3@4ax.com>,
JimP  <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 23 May 2016 23:28:13 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 23 May 2016, JimP wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016 14:30:49 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Women in the knitting group I attend are using the cloud to store
>>>>> all of their family pictures.  Historians and archaeologists aren't
>>>>> going to have much paper and things to mine.
>>>>>
>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy did a
>>>> family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about 2009 I
>>>> started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.  Not just the
>>>> family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am sort of torn, on one
>>>> hand the family did have some role in "history", but at the same time,
>>>> they left a lot of paper around, so it's easier for people to study them.
>>>>
>>>> But most of what I've found, it was written up by various historical
>>>> societies decades ago, and that's what's been digitized.
>>>>
>>>> So I can't find online the letter where my great, great grandmother
>>>> Henrietta says in 1854 "I would rather not go to [eastern] Canada;
>>>> how would I an uneducated dark halfbreed look among the fair and
>>>> accomplished ladies".  But I did find a paper that quoted that line, which
>>>> happens to be online.
>>>>
>>>> So the stuff was already salvaged long before the digital era, though I
>>>> have no idea if others collected it or if the family donated it somewhere
>>>> intact.
>>>>
>>>>   Michael
>>>
>>> Some of my ancestors are easy to find out about, some of the cousins
>>> and others, did detail work that goes back to the 1600s. Others, well,
>>> I cannot find anything on them previous to about 1950.
>>>
>>The 1600s is "long ago", for North America.  That branch of the family 
>>only goes back to the early 1800s, though of course the family has always 
>>been here.
>
>Europe for the 1600s for my ancestors. The Hundred Years War destroyed
>lots of documents on births, marriages, and deaths as Churches were
>burned.

Black Death (1349-1360) for my part. Except my maternal grandmother
where the church with her ancestry burned in 1867, making large holes.
We do know that her paternal line originated with a Danish nobleman
who was banned to rural western Norway for adulty and drunkenness in 
1767; and there have a documented line back to the early viking ages.

I have King Sverre (1151-1202) as an ancestor on three different lines, 
all from the Danish registry of bloodlines. In Norway it all ends
in the Plague.

(Sverre was especially promiscous, even for a Norse king, and left around 
20 illegitimate children.) 

The Paternal grandfather line was thought to end in 1519 when the
farm of Reistad was estabished by two young boys (Rikoll and Per), but
now one of my relatives has found their records in Voss, and can
retrieve the line further back. This was an "Odegard", literally
"deserted farm" that had been abandoned in the Plague 150 years
earlier. There is therefore no connection to Gange Rolf from the
same area; who invaded Paris ca 900 and became duke of Normandy
in 911 (as Rollo in frankophone speak). No connection, just same
place.

Except for the Bremanger one, we have been lucky that none of 
the churches has been consumed by fire, or that the ones that
were had the records salvaged. 

Church records were instituted in 1172, and are complete where
they have survived, around 80% of the places.

>>"Mourning Dove" was maybe the first native woman to have a novel 
>>published, though there is some debate.  But she wrote an autobiography, 
>>in the early 1900s but not published till 20 or 30 years ago.
>
>I don't know the names of my Native American ancestors, but Native
>Americans have told me I am Native American by looking at my face.
>Ancestry DNA doesn't find it though.

My mother did a lot of research on this when she was confined to
bed with a bad back in the early 1960s.

-- mrr

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#163914

FromMichael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Date2016-05-24 12:52 -0400
Message-ID<alpine.LNX.2.02.1605241249400.20600@darkstar.example.org>
In reply to#163903
On Tue, 24 May 2016, JimP wrote:

> On Mon, 23 May 2016 23:28:13 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, JimP wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016 14:30:49 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Women in the knitting group I attend are using the cloud to store
>>>>> all of their family pictures.  Historians and archaeologists aren't
>>>>> going to have much paper and things to mine.
>>>>>
>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy did a
>>>> family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about 2009 I
>>>> started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.  Not just the
>>>> family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am sort of torn, on one
>>>> hand the family did have some role in "history", but at the same time,
>>>> they left a lot of paper around, so it's easier for people to study them.
>>>>
>>>> But most of what I've found, it was written up by various historical
>>>> societies decades ago, and that's what's been digitized.
>>>>
>>>> So I can't find online the letter where my great, great grandmother
>>>> Henrietta says in 1854 "I would rather not go to [eastern] Canada;
>>>> how would I an uneducated dark halfbreed look among the fair and
>>>> accomplished ladies".  But I did find a paper that quoted that line, which
>>>> happens to be online.
>>>>
>>>> So the stuff was already salvaged long before the digital era, though I
>>>> have no idea if others collected it or if the family donated it somewhere
>>>> intact.
>>>>
>>>>   Michael
>>>
>>> Some of my ancestors are easy to find out about, some of the cousins
>>> and others, did detail work that goes back to the 1600s. Others, well,
>>> I cannot find anything on them previous to about 1950.
>>>
>> The 1600s is "long ago", for North America.  That branch of the family
>> only goes back to the early 1800s, though of course the family has always
>> been here.
>
> Europe for the 1600s for my ancestors. The Hundred Years War destroyed
> lots of documents on births, marriages, and deaths as Churches were
> burned.
>
>> "Mourning Dove" was maybe the first native woman to have a novel
>> published, though there is some debate.  But she wrote an autobiography,
>> in the early 1900s but not published till 20 or 30 years ago.
>
> I don't know the names of my Native American ancestors, but Native
> Americans have told me I am Native American by looking at my face.
> Ancestry DNA doesn't find it though.
>
I think we sort of don't see them, as I look closer I think I see more 
native people than I did before, previously I might have thought they were 
asian.  One time I was in line at a store and the woman who was clearly 
native turned and looked at me, I figured she was looking for something 
that is no longer there.  My father had black hair, so I'm the first one 
to lose that, it was light brown when I was a kid, then turned dark enough 
that some people think it's black.  On the other hand, if I look at the 
entry at wikipedia for "syilx", there's a photo and the man looks like my 
father, I'm not sure if I'm just imagining that or not.
   Michael

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#163917

FromJimP <solosam90@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-24 12:33 -0500
Message-ID<5s39kblmjqa7didu2bi3bmbhe1gfmfdqrp@4ax.com>
In reply to#163914
On Tue, 24 May 2016 12:52:33 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
wrote:

>On Tue, 24 May 2016, JimP wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 May 2016 23:28:13 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, JimP wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016 14:30:49 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Women in the knitting group I attend are using the cloud to store
>>>>>> all of their family pictures.  Historians and archaeologists aren't
>>>>>> going to have much paper and things to mine.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy did a
>>>>> family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about 2009 I
>>>>> started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.  Not just the
>>>>> family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am sort of torn, on one
>>>>> hand the family did have some role in "history", but at the same time,
>>>>> they left a lot of paper around, so it's easier for people to study them.
>>>>>
>>>>> But most of what I've found, it was written up by various historical
>>>>> societies decades ago, and that's what's been digitized.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I can't find online the letter where my great, great grandmother
>>>>> Henrietta says in 1854 "I would rather not go to [eastern] Canada;
>>>>> how would I an uneducated dark halfbreed look among the fair and
>>>>> accomplished ladies".  But I did find a paper that quoted that line, which
>>>>> happens to be online.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the stuff was already salvaged long before the digital era, though I
>>>>> have no idea if others collected it or if the family donated it somewhere
>>>>> intact.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Michael
>>>>
>>>> Some of my ancestors are easy to find out about, some of the cousins
>>>> and others, did detail work that goes back to the 1600s. Others, well,
>>>> I cannot find anything on them previous to about 1950.
>>>>
>>> The 1600s is "long ago", for North America.  That branch of the family
>>> only goes back to the early 1800s, though of course the family has always
>>> been here.
>>
>> Europe for the 1600s for my ancestors. The Hundred Years War destroyed
>> lots of documents on births, marriages, and deaths as Churches were
>> burned.
>>
>>> "Mourning Dove" was maybe the first native woman to have a novel
>>> published, though there is some debate.  But she wrote an autobiography,
>>> in the early 1900s but not published till 20 or 30 years ago.
>>
>> I don't know the names of my Native American ancestors, but Native
>> Americans have told me I am Native American by looking at my face.
>> Ancestry DNA doesn't find it though.
>>
>I think we sort of don't see them, as I look closer I think I see more 
>native people than I did before, previously I might have thought they were 
>asian.  One time I was in line at a store and the woman who was clearly 
>native turned and looked at me, I figured she was looking for something 
>that is no longer there.  My father had black hair, so I'm the first one 
>to lose that, it was light brown when I was a kid, then turned dark enough 
>that some people think it's black.  On the other hand, if I look at the 
>entry at wikipedia for "syilx", there's a photo and the man looks like my 
>father, I'm not sure if I'm just imagining that or not.
>   Michael

Mine is eyes, cheek bones, and nose. The nose bit was this year when I
was told I had a Comanche nose and my eyes/cheeks show I'm also
Cherokee. Historicaly, the Comanche were Shoshoni, traveled south to
what is now Texas, and members of various tribes joined them. So I
could be Sauk and Fox as well. My hair was medium brown, now its
gray-white. Hmmm... I was a skinny kid, but supposedly the Comanche
were short and chunky. I'm not short, but I am kinda chunky now.

-- 
JimP.

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#163940

FromWalter Bushell <proto@panix.com>
Date2016-05-24 17:17 -0400
Message-ID<proto-A8F1F8.17175324052016@news.panix.com>
In reply to#163903
In article <mhn8kbpv0dinkl29d52olcnqcbqi2of9b3@4ax.com>,
 JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know the names of my Native American ancestors, but Native
> Americans have told me I am Native American by looking at my face.
> Ancestry DNA doesn't find it though.
> 
> -- 
> JimP.

I think Ancestry DNA probably tracks by acknowledged unions.

-- 
 To terrify children with the image of hell,
 to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?  
  Christopher Hitchens

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#163945

FromJimP <solosam90@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-24 17:23 -0500
Message-ID<dok9kbhlhki61hleb33n4t9n04t2jcnnkf@4ax.com>
In reply to#163940
On Tue, 24 May 2016 17:17:53 -0400, Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com>
wrote:

>In article <mhn8kbpv0dinkl29d52olcnqcbqi2of9b3@4ax.com>,
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know the names of my Native American ancestors, but Native
>> Americans have told me I am Native American by looking at my face.
>> Ancestry DNA doesn't find it though.
>> 
>> -- 
>> JimP.
>
>I think Ancestry DNA probably tracks by acknowledged unions.

I do have 8th cousins who have DNA results substantially different
than mine, like the Caucasus Mountains. Which a study by the
Smithsonian found that some Native Americans were from there, not
Siberia/Mongolia like most paleoindians. So, my results show
Greece/Italy, which isn't that far geographically from the Caucasus at
a low percentage. Ancestry told me that 'the most recent' should show
at a higher percentage... according to family history my Native
American is most recent, not my European ancestors. But western
Europe, Scandinavia, and Scotland-Ireland show as higher percentages.


-- 
JimP.

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#163959

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2016-05-25 07:47 -0400
Message-ID<356466677.485868817.880621.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#163940
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <mhn8kbpv0dinkl29d52olcnqcbqi2of9b3@4ax.com>,
>  JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I don't know the names of my Native American ancestors, but Native
>> Americans have told me I am Native American by looking at my face.
>> Ancestry DNA doesn't find it though.
>> 
>> -- 
>> JimP.
> 
> I think Ancestry DNA probably tracks by acknowledged unions.
> 

It doesn't do anything like that (AFAIK), it just looks for genetic markers
of specific groups.

-- 
Pete

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#163906

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2016-05-24 11:55 -0400
Message-ID<1578976185.485797722.536067.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#163885
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 May 2016, JimP wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 23 May 2016 14:30:49 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 23 May 2016, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Women in the knitting group I attend are using the cloud to store
>>>> all of their family pictures.  Historians and archaeologists aren't
>>>> going to have much paper and things to mine.
>>>> 
>>> Years ago, a cousin of my mother who was interested in genealogy did a
>>> family tree on my father's side, and that was it.  Then about 2009 I
>>> started doing searches, and it's amazing how much is online.  Not just the
>>> family tree, but all kinds of history of it.  I am sort of torn, on one
>>> hand the family did have some role in "history", but at the same time,
>>> they left a lot of paper around, so it's easier for people to study them.
>>> 
>>> But most of what I've found, it was written up by various historical
>>> societies decades ago, and that's what's been digitized.
>>> 
>>> So I can't find online the letter where my great, great grandmother
>>> Henrietta says in 1854 "I would rather not go to [eastern] Canada;
>>> how would I an uneducated dark halfbreed look among the fair and
>>> accomplished ladies".  But I did find a paper that quoted that line, which
>>> happens to be online.
>>> 
>>> So the stuff was already salvaged long before the digital era, though I
>>> have no idea if others collected it or if the family donated it somewhere
>>> intact.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>> 
>> Some of my ancestors are easy to find out about, some of the cousins
>> and others, did detail work that goes back to the 1600s. Others, well,
>> I cannot find anything on them previous to about 1950.
>> 
> The 1600s is "long ago", for North America.  That branch of the family 
> only goes back to the early 1800s, though of course the family has always 
> been here.

Not so long ago, if you spend enough time buried in the past.  I used to
think the American Revolution was "long ago", but now it seems the French
and Indian war was relatively recent.

> 
> "Mourning Dove" was maybe the first native woman to have a novel 
> published, though there is some debate.  But she wrote an autobiography, 
> in the early 1900s but not published till 20 or 30 years ago.
> 
> She mentions my family, "the Timentwas never trusted white people after 
> their daughter moved away", which has to be when they moved to the Red 
> River Colony (what became Winnipeg, Manitoba).  I can't help but think 
> that was put in the book because my great, great, great grandfather was 
> known at the time, having written some books, including about the early 
> days of the fur trade in the pacific northwest.
> 
>   Michael
> 
> 



-- 
Pete

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