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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #163666 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-05-13 17:28 +0100 |
| Last post | 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000 |
| Articles | 18 on this page of 98 — 26 participants |
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Beware the microsoft cloud? "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-05-13 17:28 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? mentificium@gmail.com - 2016-05-14 09:22 -0700
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2016-05-21 12:31 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-21 13:16 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-22 13:15 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 09:58 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-23 11:49 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-23 11:56 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-23 15:02 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 20:57 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-23 16:19 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 04:02 +1000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-24 10:59 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-23 14:30 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-23 14:04 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-23 23:23 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-05-24 04:40 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 12:48 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-25 07:47 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-05-24 17:43 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 14:13 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 12:38 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-05-24 17:55 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-24 20:25 +0200
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 15:02 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-05-24 20:51 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-24 19:24 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 14:38 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-23 23:28 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:03 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:28 +0200
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 12:52 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 12:33 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-24 17:17 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 17:23 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-25 07:47 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-24 11:55 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-24 17:16 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-24 21:31 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 07:37 +0200
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 07:24 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-26 13:57 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 07:36 +0200
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-05-25 06:53 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-23 19:56 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-24 12:42 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 12:28 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-24 21:57 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-24 11:55 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-22 16:42 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-23 11:49 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-23 15:01 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-24 13:33 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:00 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-24 14:16 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:04 +0200
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-25 13:11 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 16:28 +0200
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-25 16:15 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 10:31 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-24 17:12 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-24 21:27 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-23 16:04 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-23 17:15 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:00 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-05-23 16:25 -0300
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:04 +1000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-23 06:40 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-23 16:16 +0200
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-05-23 19:58 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? pechter@t61.(none) (William Pechter) - 2016-05-29 20:35 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2016-05-23 12:53 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-24 12:11 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:08 +0200
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-25 13:11 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 16:22 +0200
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-25 17:51 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2016-06-01 13:16 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? mausg@mail.com - 2016-06-01 20:59 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 16:39 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-02 20:44 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 15:04 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-04 13:44 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 23:22 +0100
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-04 19:02 -0700
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 05:14 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-05 17:38 +0000
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 14:39 -0400
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 10:08 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 12:44 -0500
Re: Beware the microsoft cloud? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000
Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]
| From | Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-25 16:22 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <k1pg1d-bn4.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> |
| In reply to | #163967 |
In article <PM000533AA165E8708@aca40c43.ipt.aol.com>, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >Morten Reistad wrote: >> In article <PM00053395219D15EE@aca423de.ipt.aol.com>, >> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>Bud Frede wrote: >>>> andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) writes: >>>> >>>>> In article <nh4v4v$id$1@dont-email.me>, >>>>> "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes: >>>>>> Has microsoft a reputation for doing something for nothing? >>>>>> >>>>>> How soon after they've everyone locked in to the cloud will >>>>>> they start charging heftily for it? >>>>> >>>>> Anyone using cloud needs to keep an eye on the current and future >>>>> exit costs from their supplier. An area where this is often >>>>> overlooked is those using cloud based object stores, and when >>>>> they decide there's a better provider or solution, they only >>>>> then realise they can't actually afford to retrieve all their data >>>>> from their current provider in order to move it somewhere else >>>>> - a great lock-in strategy. >>>>> (Not saying this applies to MS necessarily - not looked at their >>>>> charges.) >>>> >>>> It does. They have a number of cloud services that seem to be of the >>>> roach motel type - easy to enter, but difficult to leave. I've warned >>>> developers about this, but many of them don't even think we need to do >>>> backups (and test the restores) anymore because "the cloud does all that >>>> for us." >>>> >>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>>> moving everything to the cloud. >>> >>>How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? >> >> You build the actual cloud yourself, using the same open source tools >> that the run-of-the-mill operations do, and use the cheap containers >> (linux machines, usually) offered by every hosting operation across the >> planet. > >So you do know where those hosting operations are? In around every second public hosting centre on the planet. I know of at least 50 large ones in the US, even more in the EU; and they are spread all over the place. I have rented some in DK, UK, CA and NZ. They have DNS for some 20 clients of mine, plus around 15 vanity domains; plus email and web backups. The NZ one also has my photo album, as a third backup from home. >> Even my little "me, myself and I" company has storage on three >> continents. I pay less than $300/month for the privilige. >> >>>> Ideally, things would be vendor-neutral so that you can easily move from >>>> cloud provider to cloud provider, or even from your local virtual >>>> environment to cloud and back again without too much pain. They're not >>>> like that yet though, and most of the cloud providers are busy trying to >>>> "add value" by offering services that only they provide and thus lock >>>> you in. >>> >>>I've just thought of a dozen scenarios which can screw a customer. >>>Not a pretty site. >> >> When you start with a good open source platform you can add that >> value yourself. > >that's software. There is still hardware and its physical location >which requires humans to babysit. Here we benefit enourmously from the standardisation and commoditisation of standard linux/bsd servers. These are so well defined and standardised that "a linux" (or rather; "a debian") is pretty straightforward to provide. And they are cheap. They are also pretty scaleable. You could probably put CNN.com on a cluster of these. -- mrr
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| From | mausg@mail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-25 17:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnnkbpg3.24l.mausg@Smaus.org> |
| In reply to | #163972 |
On 2016-05-25, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote: > In article <PM000533AA165E8708@aca40c43.ipt.aol.com>, > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>Morten Reistad wrote: >>> In article <PM00053395219D15EE@aca423de.ipt.aol.com>, >>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>>Bud Frede wrote: >>>>> andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) writes: >> >>that's software. There is still hardware and its physical location >>which requires humans to babysit. > > Here we benefit enourmously from the standardisation and commoditisation > of standard linux/bsd servers. > > These are so well defined and standardised that "a linux" (or rather; > "a debian") is pretty straightforward to provide. And they are cheap. > > They are also pretty scaleable. You could probably put CNN.com on > a cluster of these. > > -- mrr system.d ? -- greymaus.eircom.ie . . ...
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| From | Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-01 13:16 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <nZadnbTlA_30hdLKnZ2dnUU7-d_NnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #163890 |
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: > Bud Frede wrote: >> >> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >> moving everything to the cloud. > > How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both AWS and Azure.
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| From | mausg@mail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-01 20:59 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnnkufln.27u.mausg@Smaus.org> |
| In reply to | #164259 |
On 2016-06-01, Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote: > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: > >> Bud Frede wrote: >>> >>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>> moving everything to the cloud. >> >> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? > > The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. Should be handy for WWIII > You > can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple > locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. > > You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are > things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both > AWS and Azure. > -- greymaus.eircom.ie . . ...
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM0005344A7AF40271@aca41013.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164259 |
Bud Frede wrote: > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: > >> Bud Frede wrote: >>> >>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>> moving everything to the cloud. >> >> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? > > The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You > can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple > locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. > > You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are > things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both > AWS and Azure. > Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else (like China or Iran)? /BAH
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| From | Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 16:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <drb5qcFaofbU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #164317 |
On 2016-06-02, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Bud Frede wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>
>>> Bud Frede wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly
>>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your
>>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to
>>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just
>>>> moving everything to the cloud.
>>>
>>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse?
>>
>> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You
>> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple
>> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up.
>>
>> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are
>> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both
>> AWS and Azure.
>>
> Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else
> (like China or Iran)?
Having had professional dealings with several cloud providers, I'm finding
this thread most amusing. Put it this way, my advice to my then employers
(one of the world's largest) was not to touch any cloud provider with a
barge pole. The only data you should place with a cloud provider is that
which you're happy to lose or have stolen.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 7th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3182
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 20:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <niq5rb2194c@news3.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #164325 |
On 2016-06-02, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote: > On 2016-06-02, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: > >> Bud Frede wrote: >> >>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>> >>>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>>>> moving everything to the cloud. >>>> >>>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? >>> >>> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You >>> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple >>> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. >>> >>> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are >>> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both >>> AWS and Azure. >> >> Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else >> (like China or Iran)? > > Having had professional dealings with several cloud providers, I'm finding > this thread most amusing. Put it this way, my advice to my then employers > (one of the world's largest) was not to touch any cloud provider with a > barge pole. The only data you should place with a cloud provider is that > which you're happy to lose or have stolen. To me it seems that this should be the obvious conclusion for anyone who given the matter any thought. But it's nice to hear from someone with professional experience, as a sanity check on my thought processes. I too wouldn't touch the "Cloud" with a barge pole. I have recently started using Dropbox - but only as a distribution medium. (I don't care how many people get their hands on recordings of our amateur orchestra - the more the merrier. And the masters stay at home, with offline backups like the rest of my stuff.) "Too many people have become dependent on the Internet. It Clouds their thinking." -- me -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM0005345F851C7BD7@aca40481.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164325 |
Huge wrote: > On 2016-06-02, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> Bud Frede wrote: >>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>> >>>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>>>> moving everything to the cloud. >>>> >>>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? >>> >>> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You >>> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple >>> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. >>> >>> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are >>> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both >>> AWS and Azure. >>> >> Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else >> (like China or Iran)? > > Having had professional dealings with several cloud providers, I'm finding > this thread most amusing. Put it this way, my advice to my then employers > (one of the world's largest) was not to touch any cloud provider with a > barge pole. The only data you should place with a cloud provider is that > which you're happy to lose or have stolen. Or contains tracks back to the good stuff. I haven't even begun to comment on other things which "cannot happen". /BAH
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| From | David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 15:04 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <nis2on$hgc$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #164317 |
On 02/06/2016 13:09, embracive wrote: > Bud Frede wrote: >> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >> >>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>> >>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>>> moving everything to the cloud. >>> >>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? >> >> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You >> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple >> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. >> >> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are >> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both >> AWS and Azure. >> > Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else > (like China or Iran)? > > /BAH > If you are using Microsoft's AZURE cloud servers you get to choose where the server and your days are located.. They will inform you if they move it.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-04 13:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000534735C18E5DC@aca202a8.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164417 |
David Wade wrote: > On 02/06/2016 13:09, embracive wrote: >> Bud Frede wrote: >>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>> >>>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>>>> moving everything to the cloud. >>>> >>>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? >>> >>> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You >>> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple >>> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. >>> >>> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are >>> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both >>> AWS and Azure. >>> >> Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else >> (like China or Iran)? >> >> /BAH >> > If you are using Microsoft's AZURE cloud servers you get to choose where > the server and your days are located.. They will inform you if they move it. > Is there a "here is" command which verifies locations? /BAH
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| From | David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-04 23:22 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <nivkb4$huu$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #164473 |
On 04/06/2016 14:44, jmfbahciv wrote: > David Wade wrote: >> On 02/06/2016 13:09, embracive wrote: >>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>>> >>>>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>>>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>>>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>>>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>>>>> moving everything to the cloud. >>>>> >>>>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? >>>> >>>> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You >>>> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple >>>> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. >>>> >>>> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are >>>> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both >>>> AWS and Azure. >>>> >>> Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else >>> (like China or Iran)? >>> >>> /BAH >>> >> If you are using Microsoft's AZURE cloud servers you get to choose where >> the server and your days are located.. They will inform you if they move it. >> > Is there a "here is" command which verifies locations? > > /BAH > HOW would you do that? How would you verify that as IP addresses can be moved any where. BUT unlike some other providers Microsoft do take this seriously. https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/regions/ They also have the necessary security accreditations so that if you are a government purchaser in the UK or US its very difficult to argue the security case with purchasing. The platform has been certified secure elsewhere. Given the way Ransom Ware has attacked US hospitals with on-site data perhaps it would be safer in the cloud, especially if the backups can't be seen from the on-premises network. Dave
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-04 19:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <us17lb5uvfkfqbt4l4jh6mnsq85j29t583@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #164518 |
On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 23:22:25 +0100, David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On 04/06/2016 14:44, jmfbahciv wrote:
>> David Wade wrote:
>>> On 02/06/2016 13:09, embracive wrote:
>>>> Bud Frede wrote:
>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bud Frede wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly
>>>>>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your
>>>>>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to
>>>>>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just
>>>>>>> moving everything to the cloud.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse?
>>>>>
>>>>> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You
>>>>> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple
>>>>> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are
>>>>> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both
>>>>> AWS and Azure.
>>>>>
>>>> Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else
>>>> (like China or Iran)?
>>>>
>>>> /BAH
>>>>
>>> If you are using Microsoft's AZURE cloud servers you get to choose where
>>> the server and your days are located.. They will inform you if they move it.
>>>
>> Is there a "here is" command which verifies locations?
>>
>> /BAH
>>
>HOW would you do that? How would you verify that as IP addresses can be
>moved any where. BUT unlike some other providers Microsoft do take this
>seriously.
Well, it would not be by IP address then. Of course, it could be
faked.
>https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/regions/
>
>They also have the necessary security accreditations so that if you are
>a government purchaser in the UK or US its very difficult to argue the
>security case with purchasing. The platform has been certified secure
>elsewhere.
>
>Given the way Ransom Ware has attacked US hospitals with on-site data
>perhaps it would be safer in the cloud, especially if the backups can't
>be seen from the on-premises network.
I just read an article about some finding the connection to cloud
storage and encrypting that. I do not see why it would not be
possible if the ransomware got the cloud credentials.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 05:14 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.31bdb7929656fbbf98a21b@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #164521 |
In article <us17lb5uvfkfqbt4l4jh6mnsq85j29t583@4ax.com>, genew@telus.net says... > > On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 23:22:25 +0100, David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >On 04/06/2016 14:44, jmfbahciv wrote: > >> David Wade wrote: > >>> On 02/06/2016 13:09, embracive wrote: > >>>> Bud Frede wrote: > >>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Bud Frede wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly > >>>>>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your > >>>>>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to > >>>>>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just > >>>>>>> moving everything to the cloud. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? > >>>>> > >>>>> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You > >>>>> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple > >>>>> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. > >>>>> > >>>>> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are > >>>>> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both > >>>>> AWS and Azure. > >>>>> > >>>> Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else > >>>> (like China or Iran)? > >>>> > >>>> /BAH > >>>> > >>> If you are using Microsoft's AZURE cloud servers you get to choose where > >>> the server and your days are located.. They will inform you if they move it. > >>> > >> Is there a "here is" command which verifies locations? > >> > >> /BAH > >> > >HOW would you do that? How would you verify that as IP addresses can be > >moved any where. BUT unlike some other providers Microsoft do take this > >seriously. > > Well, it would not be by IP address then. Of course, it could be > faked. > > >https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/regions/ > > > >They also have the necessary security accreditations so that if you are > >a government purchaser in the UK or US its very difficult to argue the > >security case with purchasing. The platform has been certified secure > >elsewhere. > > > >Given the way Ransom Ware has attacked US hospitals with on-site data > >perhaps it would be safer in the cloud, especially if the backups can't > >be seen from the on-premises network. > > I just read an article about some finding the connection to cloud > storage and encrypting that. I do not see why it would not be > possible if the ransomware got the cloud credentials. However (a) if they were doing that them Microsoft is a lot juicier target than some second-rate hospital and (b) Microsoft, Amazon, etc would just restore from backup. And if _they_ don't have decent backups there's no excuse.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 17:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nj1o1u0no0@news6.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #164551 |
On 2016-06-05, J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > In article <us17lb5uvfkfqbt4l4jh6mnsq85j29t583@4ax.com>, genew@telus.net > says... > >> I just read an article about some finding the connection to cloud >> storage and encrypting that. I do not see why it would not be >> possible if the ransomware got the cloud credentials. > > However (a) if they were doing that them Microsoft is a lot juicier > target than some second-rate hospital and (b) Microsoft, Amazon, etc > would just restore from backup. And if _they_ don't have decent backups > there's no excuse. If they have decent backups, then why shouldn't we? Wherever else my data will be, there'll always be an offline copy stored offsite. -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 14:39 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.31be3c00309cd4398a223@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #164606 |
In article <nj1o1u0no0@news6.newsguy.com>, cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid says... > > On 2016-06-05, J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > > > In article <us17lb5uvfkfqbt4l4jh6mnsq85j29t583@4ax.com>, genew@telus.net > > says... > > > >> I just read an article about some finding the connection to cloud > >> storage and encrypting that. I do not see why it would not be > >> possible if the ransomware got the cloud credentials. > > > > However (a) if they were doing that them Microsoft is a lot juicier > > target than some second-rate hospital and (b) Microsoft, Amazon, etc > > would just restore from backup. And if _they_ don't have decent backups > > there's no excuse. > > If they have decent backups, then why shouldn't we? Because they're a billions-of-dollars corporation that actually understands something about computing and the costs involved in data recovery and you're East Overshoe General Hospital with a cost-cutting administrator who thinks you "shouldn't be in the IT business"? > Wherever else my data will be, there'll always be an offline copy > stored offsite. Thus violating HIPAA and subjecting yourself to a 50K fine and a year in jail.
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| From | JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 10:08 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <51g8lb91qavggueu4a91khojb209i6m68v@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #164521 |
On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 19:02:18 -0700, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: >On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 23:22:25 +0100, David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> >wrote: > >>On 04/06/2016 14:44, jmfbahciv wrote: >>> David Wade wrote: >>>> On 02/06/2016 13:09, embracive wrote: >>>>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>>>>>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>>>>>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>>>>>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>>>>>>> moving everything to the cloud. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? >>>>>> >>>>>> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You >>>>>> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple >>>>>> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. >>>>>> >>>>>> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are >>>>>> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both >>>>>> AWS and Azure. >>>>>> >>>>> Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else >>>>> (like China or Iran)? >>>>> >>>>> /BAH >>>>> >>>> If you are using Microsoft's AZURE cloud servers you get to choose where >>>> the server and your days are located.. They will inform you if they move it. >>>> >>> Is there a "here is" command which verifies locations? >>> >>> /BAH >>> >>HOW would you do that? How would you verify that as IP addresses can be >>moved any where. BUT unlike some other providers Microsoft do take this >>seriously. > > Well, it would not be by IP address then. Of course, it could be >faked. > >>https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/regions/ >> >>They also have the necessary security accreditations so that if you are >>a government purchaser in the UK or US its very difficult to argue the >>security case with purchasing. The platform has been certified secure >>elsewhere. >> >>Given the way Ransom Ware has attacked US hospitals with on-site data >>perhaps it would be safer in the cloud, especially if the backups can't >>be seen from the on-premises network. > > I just read an article about some finding the connection to cloud >storage and encrypting that. I do not see why it would not be >possible if the ransomware got the cloud credentials. > >Sincerely, > >Gene Wirchenko I was watching a documentary on Discovery science this weekend, and they mentioned 'the cloud'. One set of servers is 22 floors down in Iron Mountain. They showed some of them, likes blinking away. -- JimP.
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| From | JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 12:44 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <h6p8lbl86sq6ge8ltils54ofglf8lnofht@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #164593 |
On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 10:08:32 -0500, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: >On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 19:02:18 -0700, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> >wrote: >>On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 23:22:25 +0100, David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> >>wrote: >> >>>On 04/06/2016 14:44, jmfbahciv wrote: >>>> David Wade wrote: >>>>> On 02/06/2016 13:09, embracive wrote: >>>>>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>>>>>>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>>>>>>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>>>>>>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>>>>>>>> moving everything to the cloud. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You >>>>>>> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple >>>>>>> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are >>>>>>> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both >>>>>>> AWS and Azure. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else >>>>>> (like China or Iran)? >>>>>> >>>>>> /BAH >>>>>> >>>>> If you are using Microsoft's AZURE cloud servers you get to choose where >>>>> the server and your days are located.. They will inform you if they move it. >>>>> >>>> Is there a "here is" command which verifies locations? >>>> >>>> /BAH >>>> >>>HOW would you do that? How would you verify that as IP addresses can be >>>moved any where. BUT unlike some other providers Microsoft do take this >>>seriously. >> >> Well, it would not be by IP address then. Of course, it could be >>faked. >> >>>https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/regions/ >>> >>>They also have the necessary security accreditations so that if you are >>>a government purchaser in the UK or US its very difficult to argue the >>>security case with purchasing. The platform has been certified secure >>>elsewhere. >>> >>>Given the way Ransom Ware has attacked US hospitals with on-site data >>>perhaps it would be safer in the cloud, especially if the backups can't >>>be seen from the on-premises network. >> >> I just read an article about some finding the connection to cloud >>storage and encrypting that. I do not see why it would not be >>possible if the ransomware got the cloud credentials. >> >>Sincerely, >> >>Gene Wirchenko > >I was watching a documentary on Discovery science this weekend, and >they mentioned 'the cloud'. One set of servers is 22 floors down in >Iron Mountain. They showed some of them, likes blinking away. Lights blinking away is what I meant to type. -- JimP.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 14:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM00053488D728F150@aca41e70.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #164518 |
David Wade wrote: > On 04/06/2016 14:44, jmfbahciv wrote: >> David Wade wrote: >>> On 02/06/2016 13:09, embracive wrote: >>>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Bud Frede wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the cloud can be good in some cases, like when you're a fairly >>>>>>> small company but you need geographic diversity for your >>>>>>> servers/datacenter. It's not ideal for everything (not a surprise to >>>>>>> anyone here), so you have to use some sense before (or instead of) just >>>>>>> moving everything to the cloud. >>>>>> >>>>>> How do you check that the cloud provider is geographically diverse? >>>>> >>>>> The cloud providers all list where their data centers are located. You >>>>> can then elect to have your application or parts of it run in multiple >>>>> locations, so even if one goes down the others will still be up. >>>>> >>>>> You have to architect your application properly, and even then there are >>>>> things that can take down a whole cloud provider. It's happened to both >>>>> AWS and Azure. >>>>> >>>> Do they notify you if/when they move your cloud's contents somewhere else >>>> (like China or Iran)? >>>> >>>> /BAH >>>> >>> If you are using Microsoft's AZURE cloud servers you get to choose where >>> the server and your days are located.. They will inform you if they move it. >>> >> Is there a "here is" command which verifies locations? >> >> /BAH >> > HOW would you do that? I have no idea. That's one of reasons I asked the question. > How would you verify that as IP addresses can be > moved any where. BUT unlike some other providers Microsoft do take this > seriously. > > https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/regions/ > > They also have the necessary security accreditations so that if you are > a government purchaser in the UK or US its very difficult to argue the > security case with purchasing. The platform has been certified secure > elsewhere. > > Given the way Ransom Ware has attacked US hospitals with on-site data > perhaps it would be safer in the cloud, especially if the backups can't > be seen from the on-premises network. There are lots of problems I can think of. How do you keep the Chinese from buying a company which provides clouding services. /BAH
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