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Groups > aus.computers > #46545
| From | Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | aus.computers, aus.electronics |
| Subject | Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent |
| Date | 2015-06-06 13:50 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <ctf914F878gU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (16 earlier) <ctdgscFp4hdU1@mid.individual.net> <ctdjvtFpttlU1@mid.individual.net> <ctdklkFq3raU1@mid.individual.net> <ctdlg1FqalgU1@mid.individual.net> <ctf65gF7kt0U1@mid.individual.net> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 6/06/2015 1:02 PM, Rod Speed wrote: > > > "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message > news:ctdlg1FqalgU1@mid.individual.net... >> On 5/06/2015 10:57 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>> >>> >>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>> news:ctdjvtFpttlU1@mid.individual.net... >>>> On 5/06/2015 9:52 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>> news:ctd77pFmnt8U1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>> On 5/06/2015 5:49 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:ctcrs0Fjup5U1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>> On 5/06/2015 3:42 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:ctcprsFjgfkU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>> On 5/06/2015 2:50 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:ctcjseFi6rfU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/06/2015 12:23 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/06/2015 9:16 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pinch of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> salt, at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood for exactly what they are. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The patent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> states >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Some electronic equipments that use disposable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as AA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries, are designed to stop operating when the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> battery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> battery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.4V or 1.35V." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shown in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clearly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "some" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the majority do, nor that most do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 1V >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will have removed most of the available energy from the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> battery. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Further, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a constant internal voltage, then adding the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Batteriser to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faster as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dissipates more energy as heat. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That if the majority of the equipment comes with an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> internal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> step up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator circuittry. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afaik. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scientific >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equipment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 1V >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per cell then there's no need to provide extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> circuity to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pump the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but also wastes energy in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher voltage wastes energy, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No it does not. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless the device contrives to draw a lower current at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, think of a constant current device. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A constant current device consumes power in proportion to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> applied >>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But the device isn't necessarily a constant current device. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You raised constant current devices. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Only to rub your nose in that error of yours. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which typically implies some kind of non-linear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No reason why it can't just connect the battery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly to the load while ever the voltage is high >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough and put it thru a step up regulator when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the battery voltage is too low, to get what remains >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the battery out of the battery. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Care to propose an actual circuit that does that without >>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasting energy? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> One obvious way to do that is to use a relay that >>>>>>>>>>>>> applys the battery directly to what its powering >>>>>>>>>>>>> while ever the battery has sufficient voltage and >>>>>>>>>>>>> then switches the step up regulator in when the >>>>>>>>>>>>> battery voltage drops below the voltage at which >>>>>>>>>>>>> the device will turn itself off due to insufficient voltage. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And the relay coil is powered how? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Doesn’t have to be powered, it can be a bistable relay >>>>>>>>>>> or use the normally closed terminals when the relay >>>>>>>>>>> is not powered to connect the battery directly to the >>>>>>>>>>> load when the battery voltage is high enough. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In any case, the point remains that applying an unnecessarily >>>>>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage to a device is wasteful of energy. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But you don’t have to do it like that. The battery >>>>>>>>>>>>> can be directly connected to the load when it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is producing sufficient voltage to power the load. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The batteriser cannot tell what voltage is sufficient. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It can work that out from when the load no longer >>>>>>>>>>> runs when the battery voltage is low enough. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Devices don't necessarily stop drawing current just because the >>>>>>>>>> input >>>>>>>>>> voltage has reached a level below which they cannot work >>>>>>>>>> properly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sure, but there normally is a significant drop in current >>>>>>>>> drawn when they decide that the voltage is too low to >>>>>>>>> allow the device to be used normally. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't know about "normally", >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or anything else at all either. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but in any case, there are significant drops in current for reasons >>>>>>>> entirely unrelated to the voltage being too low, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Not to such a low level of current that it clearly >>>>>>> isn't turned on as far as the user is concerned. >>>>> >>>>>> And you have a cite to back up that claim? >>>>> >>>>> Don’t need a cite, even someone as stupid as you can try measuring it. >>>>> >>>>>> I have a clock with an un-illuminated LCD readout. >>>>> >>>>> And that isn't sort of device that anyone but someone >>>>> as stupid as you would ever use something like what is >>>>> being discussed with. >>> >>>> I wondered whether this would be the point where you'd start excluding >>>> devices that are counter-examples. >>> >>> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag. >>> >>> And it isn't a counter example either. >>> >>>>> And even if you did, you would find that when it stops >>>>> working with a particular battery, that there is a significant >>>>> drop in the current it takes from that battery when it does. >>> >>>> The current it draws rises and falls by about 50% very couple of >>>> seconds. >>> >>> And its completely trivial for any well designed system to see that. >>> >>>> When the alarm goes off, the current rises considerably, >>> >>> Irrelevant when what its looking for is a significant and permanent >>> drop. >> >> How long does one have to watch a drop to determine whether or not it >> is permanent? > > Obviously if it drops to much lower than it was for a > significant amount of time, its obviously stopped. Music player between tracks? I think the absurdity of your position has been adequately demonstrated. I'll let you have the last word. Sylvia.
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Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> - 2015-06-03 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-03 16:30 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-04 12:14 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-04 21:16 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:37 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:23 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:19 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 15:42 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:54 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 19:08 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 21:52 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 22:45 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 22:57 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:11 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 13:02 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-06 13:50 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:51 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:59 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:34 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:40 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:25 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 14:54 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 12:54 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:03 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 16:47 +0200
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