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Groups > aus.computers > #46539
| From | Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | aus.computers, aus.electronics |
| Subject | Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent |
| Date | 2015-06-05 22:45 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <ctdjvtFpttlU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (12 earlier) <ctcr76FjqfbU1@mid.individual.net> <ctcrs0Fjup5U1@mid.individual.net> <ctd2juFlisnU1@mid.individual.net> <ctd77pFmnt8U1@mid.individual.net> <ctdgscFp4hdU1@mid.individual.net> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 5/06/2015 9:52 PM, Rod Speed wrote: > > > "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message > news:ctd77pFmnt8U1@mid.individual.net... >> On 5/06/2015 5:49 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>> >>> >>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>> news:ctcrs0Fjup5U1@mid.individual.net... >>>> On 5/06/2015 3:42 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>> news:ctcprsFjgfkU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>> On 5/06/2015 2:50 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:ctcjseFi6rfU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>> On 5/06/2015 12:23 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>> On 4/06/2015 9:16 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> salt, at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood for exactly what they are. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The patent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> states >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as AA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.4V or 1.35V." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "some" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the majority do, nor that most do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 1V >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will have removed most of the available energy from the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> battery. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Further, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faster as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dissipates more energy as heat. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> step up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator circuittry. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scientific >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equipment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 1V >>>>>>>>>>>>>> per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pump the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but also wastes energy in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is >>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>> need. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then >>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>> higher voltage wastes energy, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> No it does not. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> unless the device contrives to draw a lower current at the >>>>>>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Nope, think of a constant current device. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A constant current device consumes power in proportion to the >>>>>>>>>> applied >>>>>>>>>> voltage. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But the device isn't necessarily a constant current device. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You raised constant current devices. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Only to rub your nose in that error of yours. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (which typically implies some kind of non-linear regulator). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> No reason why it can't just connect the battery >>>>>>>>>>> directly to the load while ever the voltage is high >>>>>>>>>>> enough and put it thru a step up regulator when >>>>>>>>>>> the battery voltage is too low, to get what remains >>>>>>>>>>> in the battery out of the battery. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Care to propose an actual circuit that does that without itself >>>>>>>>>> wasting energy? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One obvious way to do that is to use a relay that >>>>>>>>> applys the battery directly to what its powering >>>>>>>>> while ever the battery has sufficient voltage and >>>>>>>>> then switches the step up regulator in when the >>>>>>>>> battery voltage drops below the voltage at which >>>>>>>>> the device will turn itself off due to insufficient voltage. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And the relay coil is powered how? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Doesn’t have to be powered, it can be a bistable relay >>>>>>> or use the normally closed terminals when the relay >>>>>>> is not powered to connect the battery directly to the >>>>>>> load when the battery voltage is high enough. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In any case, the point remains that applying an unnecessarily >>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>> voltage to a device is wasteful of energy. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But you don’t have to do it like that. The battery >>>>>>>>> can be directly connected to the load when it >>>>>>>>> is producing sufficient voltage to power the load. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The batteriser cannot tell what voltage is sufficient. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It can work that out from when the load no longer >>>>>>> runs when the battery voltage is low enough. >>>>>> >>>>>> Devices don't necessarily stop drawing current just because the input >>>>>> voltage has reached a level below which they cannot work properly. >>>>> >>>>> Sure, but there normally is a significant drop in current >>>>> drawn when they decide that the voltage is too low to >>>>> allow the device to be used normally. >>> >>>> I don't know about "normally", >>> >>> Or anything else at all either. >>> >>>> but in any case, there are significant drops in current for reasons >>>> entirely unrelated to the voltage being too low, >>> >>> Not to such a low level of current that it clearly >>> isn't turned on as far as the user is concerned. > >> And you have a cite to back up that claim? > > Don’t need a cite, even someone as stupid as you can try measuring it. > >> I have a clock with an un-illuminated LCD readout. > > And that isn't sort of device that anyone but someone > as stupid as you would ever use something like what is > being discussed with. I wondered whether this would be the point where you'd start excluding devices that are counter-examples. > > And even if you did, you would find that when it stops > working with a particular battery, that there is a significant > drop in the current it takes from that battery when it does. The current it draws rises and falls by about 50% very couple of seconds. When the alarm goes off, the current rises considerably, and then falls again once the alarm is cancelled. > >> It runs on a single AAA battery, and draws about 15 microamps. Yet >> it's turned on. > > And that current will drop significantly when > it has decided that the battery is too flat to use. You know this how? > >> Just how low is this alleged not-turned-on threshold? > > A significant drop from the current it takes when turned on, fuckwit. You mean you want to note the current when it's first turned on, and detect a later drop? Sylvia.
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Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> - 2015-06-03 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-03 16:30 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-04 12:14 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-04 21:16 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:37 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:23 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:19 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 15:42 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:54 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 19:08 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 21:52 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 22:45 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 22:57 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:11 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 13:02 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-06 13:50 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:51 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:59 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:34 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:40 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:25 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 14:54 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 12:54 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:03 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 16:47 +0200
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