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Groups > aus.computers > #46534
| From | Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | aus.computers, aus.electronics |
| Subject | Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent |
| Date | 2015-06-05 19:08 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <ctd77pFmnt8U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (10 earlier) <ctco3vFj4l5U1@mid.individual.net> <ctcprsFjgfkU1@mid.individual.net> <ctcr76FjqfbU1@mid.individual.net> <ctcrs0Fjup5U1@mid.individual.net> <ctd2juFlisnU1@mid.individual.net> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 5/06/2015 5:49 PM, Rod Speed wrote: > > > "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message > news:ctcrs0Fjup5U1@mid.individual.net... >> On 5/06/2015 3:42 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>> >>> >>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>> news:ctcprsFjgfkU1@mid.individual.net... >>>> On 5/06/2015 2:50 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>> news:ctcjseFi6rfU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>> On 5/06/2015 12:23 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>> On 4/06/2015 9:16 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> salt, at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood for exactly what they are. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The patent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> states >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as AA >>>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery >>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.4V or 1.35V." >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "some" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the majority do, nor that most do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 1V >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will have removed most of the available energy from the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> battery. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Further, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dissipates more energy as heat. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal >>>>>>>>>>>>> step up >>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator circuittry. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and >>>>>>>>>>>>> scientific >>>>>>>>>>>>> equipment. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a >>>>>>>>>>>> matter of >>>>>>>>>>>> what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate >>>>>>>>>>>> on 1V >>>>>>>>>>>> per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to >>>>>>>>>>>> pump the >>>>>>>>>>>> voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy >>>>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>>> pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> but also wastes energy in >>>>>>>>>>>> the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it >>>>>>>>>>>> needs. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is >>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> need. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then >>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>> higher voltage wastes energy, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No it does not. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> unless the device contrives to draw a lower current at the higher >>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nope, think of a constant current device. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A constant current device consumes power in proportion to the >>>>>>>> applied >>>>>>>> voltage. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But the device isn't necessarily a constant current device. >>>>> >>>>>> You raised constant current devices. >>>>> >>>>> Only to rub your nose in that error of yours. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (which typically implies some kind of non-linear regulator). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No reason why it can't just connect the battery >>>>>>>>> directly to the load while ever the voltage is high >>>>>>>>> enough and put it thru a step up regulator when >>>>>>>>> the battery voltage is too low, to get what remains >>>>>>>>> in the battery out of the battery. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Care to propose an actual circuit that does that without itself >>>>>>>> wasting energy? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One obvious way to do that is to use a relay that >>>>>>> applys the battery directly to what its powering >>>>>>> while ever the battery has sufficient voltage and >>>>>>> then switches the step up regulator in when the >>>>>>> battery voltage drops below the voltage at which >>>>>>> the device will turn itself off due to insufficient voltage. >>>>> >>>>>> And the relay coil is powered how? >>>>> >>>>> Doesn’t have to be powered, it can be a bistable relay >>>>> or use the normally closed terminals when the relay >>>>> is not powered to connect the battery directly to the >>>>> load when the battery voltage is high enough. >>>>> >>>>>>>> In any case, the point remains that applying an unnecessarily high >>>>>>>> voltage to a device is wasteful of energy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But you don’t have to do it like that. The battery >>>>>>> can be directly connected to the load when it >>>>>>> is producing sufficient voltage to power the load. >>>>> >>>>>> The batteriser cannot tell what voltage is sufficient. >>>>> >>>>> It can work that out from when the load no longer >>>>> runs when the battery voltage is low enough. >>>> >>>> Devices don't necessarily stop drawing current just because the input >>>> voltage has reached a level below which they cannot work properly. >>> >>> Sure, but there normally is a significant drop in current >>> drawn when they decide that the voltage is too low to >>> allow the device to be used normally. > >> I don't know about "normally", > > Or anything else at all either. > >> but in any case, there are significant drops in current for reasons >> entirely unrelated to the voltage being too low, > > Not to such a low level of current that it clearly >isn't turned on as far as the user is concerned. And you have a cite to back up that claim? I have a clock with an un-illuminated LCD readout. It runs on a single AAA battery, and draws about 15 microamps. Yet it's turned on. Just how low is this alleged not-turned-on threshold? Sylvia.
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Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> - 2015-06-03 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-03 16:30 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-04 12:14 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-04 21:16 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:37 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:23 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:19 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 15:42 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:54 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 19:08 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 21:52 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 22:45 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 22:57 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:11 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 13:02 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-06 13:50 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:51 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:59 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:34 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:40 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:25 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 14:54 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 12:54 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:03 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 16:47 +0200
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