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Groups > aus.computers > #46531
| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | aus.computers, aus.electronics |
| Subject | Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent |
| Date | 2015-06-05 15:42 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <ctcr76FjqfbU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net> <ctcfh3Fh9j6U1@mid.individual.net> <ctcjseFi6rfU1@mid.individual.net> <ctco3vFj4l5U1@mid.individual.net> <ctcprsFjgfkU1@mid.individual.net> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message news:ctcprsFjgfkU1@mid.individual.net... > On 5/06/2015 2:50 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >> >> >> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >> news:ctcjseFi6rfU1@mid.individual.net... >>> On 5/06/2015 12:23 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>> news:ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>> On 4/06/2015 9:16 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>> news:ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote: >>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of >>>>>>>>>>> salt, at >>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>> understood for exactly what they are. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The patent >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> states >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such >>>>>>>>>>> as AA >>>>>>>>>>> batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery >>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>>> by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery >>>>>>>>>>> drops to >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> 1.4V or 1.35V." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in >>>>>>>>>>> figure 7 >>>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>>> patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly >>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>> exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" >>>>>>>>>>> do. >>>>>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>>>>> that the majority do, nor that most do. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage >>>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>>> to 1V >>>>>>>>>>> will have removed most of the available energy from the battery. >>>>>>>>>>> Further, >>>>>>>>>>> if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>>> a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to >>>>>>>>>>> provide a >>>>>>>>>>> constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the >>>>>>>>>>> regulator >>>>>>>>>>> dissipates more energy as heat. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal >>>>>>>>>> step up >>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>> regulator circuittry. >>>>>>>>>> Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik. >>>>>>>>>> Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific >>>>>>>>>> equipment. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a >>>>>>>>> matter of >>>>>>>>> what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate >>>>>>>>> on 1V >>>>>>>>> per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy >>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>> pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but also wastes energy in >>>>>>>>> the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is all >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> need. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then any >>>>>>> higher voltage wastes energy, >>>>>> >>>>>> No it does not. >>>>>> >>>>>>> unless the device contrives to draw a lower current at the higher >>>>>>> voltage >>>>>> >>>>>> Nope, think of a constant current device. >>>> >>>>> A constant current device consumes power in proportion to the applied >>>>> voltage. >>>> >>>> But the device isn't necessarily a constant current device. >> >>> You raised constant current devices. >> >> Only to rub your nose in that error of yours. >> >>>>>>> (which typically implies some kind of non-linear regulator). >>>>>> >>>>>> No reason why it can't just connect the battery >>>>>> directly to the load while ever the voltage is high >>>>>> enough and put it thru a step up regulator when >>>>>> the battery voltage is too low, to get what remains >>>>>> in the battery out of the battery. >>>> >>>>> Care to propose an actual circuit that does that without itself >>>>> wasting energy? >>>> >>>> One obvious way to do that is to use a relay that >>>> applys the battery directly to what its powering >>>> while ever the battery has sufficient voltage and >>>> then switches the step up regulator in when the >>>> battery voltage drops below the voltage at which >>>> the device will turn itself off due to insufficient voltage. >> >>> And the relay coil is powered how? >> >> Doesn’t have to be powered, it can be a bistable relay >> or use the normally closed terminals when the relay >> is not powered to connect the battery directly to the >> load when the battery voltage is high enough. >> >>>>> In any case, the point remains that applying an unnecessarily high >>>>> voltage to a device is wasteful of energy. >>>> >>>> But you don’t have to do it like that. The battery >>>> can be directly connected to the load when it >>>> is producing sufficient voltage to power the load. >> >>> The batteriser cannot tell what voltage is sufficient. >> >> It can work that out from when the load no longer >> runs when the battery voltage is low enough. > > Devices don't necessarily stop drawing current just because the input > voltage has reached a level below which they cannot work properly. Sure, but there normally is a significant drop in current drawn when they decide that the voltage is too low to allow the device to be used normally.
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Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> - 2015-06-03 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-03 16:30 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-04 12:14 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-04 21:16 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:37 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:23 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:19 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 15:42 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:54 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 19:08 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 21:52 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 22:45 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 22:57 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:11 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 13:02 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-06 13:50 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:51 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:59 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:34 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:40 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:25 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 14:54 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 12:54 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:03 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 16:47 +0200
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