Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent

From	BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups	aus.computers, aus.electronics
Subject	Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent
Date	2015-06-05 16:47 +0200
Message-ID	<ctdr3eFrpj8U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net> <ctareoF4cnhU1@mid.individual.net> <ctcd0rFgnlaU2@mid.individual.net> <ctddg2Fo8e7U1@mid.individual.net> <ctdl1bFq6qcU1@mid.individual.net>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 5/06/2015 3:03 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 5/06/2015 8:54 PM, BuckyBalls wrote:
>> On 5/06/2015 3:40 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 4/06/2015 9:34 PM, BuckyBalls wrote:
>>>> On 4/06/2015 4:14 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of
>>>>>>>>> salt, at
>>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>>> understood for exactly what they are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The patent
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> states
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such
>>>>>>>>> as AA
>>>>>>>>> batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
>>>>>>>>> drops
>>>>>>>>> by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery
>>>>>>>>> drops to
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> 1.4V or 1.35V."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
>>>>>>>>> exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do.
>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>> that the majority do, nor that most do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage
>>>>>>>>> drops
>>>>>>>>> to 1V
>>>>>>>>> will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
>>>>>>>>> Further,
>>>>>>>>> if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to
>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>> a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to
>>>>>>>>> provide a
>>>>>>>>> constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the
>>>>>>>>> regulator
>>>>>>>>> dissipates more energy as heat.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal
>>>>>>>> step up
>>>>>>>> voltage
>>>>>>>> regulator circuittry.
>>>>>>>> Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik.
>>>>>>>> Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific
>>>>>>>> equipment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a
>>>>>>> matter of
>>>>>>> what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate on 1V
>>>>>>> per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump the
>>>>>>> voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> but also wastes energy in
>>>>>>> the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is all
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V.
>>>>>
>>>>> Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then any
>>>>> higher voltage wastes energy, unless the device contrives to draw a
>>>>> lower current at the higher voltage (which typically implies some kind
>>>>> of non-linear regulator).
>>>>>
>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>
>>>> Boost converters are LEAST efficient at lower input voltages. As the
>>>> voltage increases they get more efficient. Basic switch-mode stuff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> If the device uses a boost converter to provide the majority of the
>>> power to the rest of the circuit, then that is true. Most battery
>>> powered devices just require a suitable input voltage, and do not use a
>>> boost converter.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> The boost converter is in the batteriser.
>>
> We're running round in circles.
>
> Yes, of course the Batteriser contains some kind of boost converter. The
> problem is that providing a higher voltage to a device that doesn't need
> it will be wasteful unless that device itself contains an efficient
> voltage regulator.
>
> Most battery powered devices either don't contain a voltage regulator at
> all, or contain a linear regulator. In both cases providing more voltage
> than is required will just serve to heat the device up more.
>
> Sylvia.

A boost converter allows a device to operate when the battery voltage 
has fallen BELOW the minimum required. Anyway, look around at what is 
being made these days, you would be hard pressed to find a LINEAR 
regulator in any well-designed device these days, except for the 
dirt-cheap linear crap that you seem to be championing.

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Thread

Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> - 2015-06-03 11:38 +1000
  Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-03 16:30 +1000
    Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-04 12:14 +1000
      Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-04 21:16 +1000
        Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:37 +0200
        Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:38 +1000
          Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:23 +1000
            Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:19 +1000
              Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 15:42 +1000
                Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:54 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 19:08 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 21:52 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 22:45 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 22:57 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:11 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 13:02 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-06 13:50 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:51 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:59 +1000
      Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life   by   800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:34 +0200
        Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life     by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:40 +1000
          Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life     by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:25 +1000
            Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life     by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 14:54 +1000
          Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life       by   800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 12:54 +0200
            Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life         by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:03 +1000
              Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life           by   800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 16:47 +0200

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