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Groups > aus.computers > #46536
| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | aus.computers, aus.electronics |
| Subject | Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent |
| Date | 2015-06-05 21:52 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <ctdgscFp4hdU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (11 earlier) <ctcprsFjgfkU1@mid.individual.net> <ctcr76FjqfbU1@mid.individual.net> <ctcrs0Fjup5U1@mid.individual.net> <ctd2juFlisnU1@mid.individual.net> <ctd77pFmnt8U1@mid.individual.net> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message news:ctd77pFmnt8U1@mid.individual.net... > On 5/06/2015 5:49 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >> >> >> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >> news:ctcrs0Fjup5U1@mid.individual.net... >>> On 5/06/2015 3:42 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>> news:ctcprsFjgfkU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>> On 5/06/2015 2:50 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>> news:ctcjseFi6rfU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>> On 5/06/2015 12:23 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>> On 4/06/2015 9:16 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> salt, at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood for exactly what they are. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The patent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> states >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as AA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.4V or 1.35V." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "some" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the majority do, nor that most do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 1V >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will have removed most of the available energy from the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> battery. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Further, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dissipates more energy as heat. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> step up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regulator circuittry. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> scientific >>>>>>>>>>>>>> equipment. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a >>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of >>>>>>>>>>>>> what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate >>>>>>>>>>>>> on 1V >>>>>>>>>>>>> per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to >>>>>>>>>>>>> pump the >>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>>>> pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> but also wastes energy in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it >>>>>>>>>>>>> needs. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is >>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> need. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then >>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>> higher voltage wastes energy, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No it does not. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> unless the device contrives to draw a lower current at the >>>>>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nope, think of a constant current device. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A constant current device consumes power in proportion to the >>>>>>>>> applied >>>>>>>>> voltage. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But the device isn't necessarily a constant current device. >>>>>> >>>>>>> You raised constant current devices. >>>>>> >>>>>> Only to rub your nose in that error of yours. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (which typically implies some kind of non-linear regulator). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No reason why it can't just connect the battery >>>>>>>>>> directly to the load while ever the voltage is high >>>>>>>>>> enough and put it thru a step up regulator when >>>>>>>>>> the battery voltage is too low, to get what remains >>>>>>>>>> in the battery out of the battery. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Care to propose an actual circuit that does that without itself >>>>>>>>> wasting energy? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One obvious way to do that is to use a relay that >>>>>>>> applys the battery directly to what its powering >>>>>>>> while ever the battery has sufficient voltage and >>>>>>>> then switches the step up regulator in when the >>>>>>>> battery voltage drops below the voltage at which >>>>>>>> the device will turn itself off due to insufficient voltage. >>>>>> >>>>>>> And the relay coil is powered how? >>>>>> >>>>>> Doesn’t have to be powered, it can be a bistable relay >>>>>> or use the normally closed terminals when the relay >>>>>> is not powered to connect the battery directly to the >>>>>> load when the battery voltage is high enough. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In any case, the point remains that applying an unnecessarily high >>>>>>>>> voltage to a device is wasteful of energy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But you don’t have to do it like that. The battery >>>>>>>> can be directly connected to the load when it >>>>>>>> is producing sufficient voltage to power the load. >>>>>> >>>>>>> The batteriser cannot tell what voltage is sufficient. >>>>>> >>>>>> It can work that out from when the load no longer >>>>>> runs when the battery voltage is low enough. >>>>> >>>>> Devices don't necessarily stop drawing current just because the input >>>>> voltage has reached a level below which they cannot work properly. >>>> >>>> Sure, but there normally is a significant drop in current >>>> drawn when they decide that the voltage is too low to >>>> allow the device to be used normally. >> >>> I don't know about "normally", >> >> Or anything else at all either. >> >>> but in any case, there are significant drops in current for reasons >>> entirely unrelated to the voltage being too low, >> >> Not to such a low level of current that it clearly >>isn't turned on as far as the user is concerned. > And you have a cite to back up that claim? Don’t need a cite, even someone as stupid as you can try measuring it. > I have a clock with an un-illuminated LCD readout. And that isn't sort of device that anyone but someone as stupid as you would ever use something like what is being discussed with. And even if you did, you would find that when it stops working with a particular battery, that there is a significant drop in the current it takes from that battery when it does. > It runs on a single AAA battery, and draws about 15 microamps. Yet it's > turned on. And that current will drop significantly when it has decided that the battery is too flat to use. > Just how low is this alleged not-turned-on threshold? A significant drop from the current it takes when turned on, fuckwit.
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Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> - 2015-06-03 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-03 16:30 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-04 12:14 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-04 21:16 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:37 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:23 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:19 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 15:42 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:54 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 19:08 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 21:52 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 22:45 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 22:57 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:11 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 13:02 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-06 13:50 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:51 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:59 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:34 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:40 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:25 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 14:54 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 12:54 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:03 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 16:47 +0200
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