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Groups > aus.computers > #46530
| From | Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | aus.computers, aus.electronics |
| Subject | Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent |
| Date | 2015-06-05 15:19 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <ctcprsFjgfkU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (6 earlier) <ctaqd6F43teU1@mid.individual.net> <ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net> <ctcfh3Fh9j6U1@mid.individual.net> <ctcjseFi6rfU1@mid.individual.net> <ctco3vFj4l5U1@mid.individual.net> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 5/06/2015 2:50 PM, Rod Speed wrote: > > > "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message > news:ctcjseFi6rfU1@mid.individual.net... >> On 5/06/2015 12:23 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>> >>> >>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>> news:ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net... >>>> On 4/06/2015 9:16 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>> news:ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>> On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>> On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote: >>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>> On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of >>>>>>>>>> salt, at >>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>> understood for exactly what they are. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The patent >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> states >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such >>>>>>>>>> as AA >>>>>>>>>> batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery >>>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>> by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery >>>>>>>>>> drops to >>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> 1.4V or 1.35V." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in >>>>>>>>>> figure 7 >>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>> patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being >>>>>>>>>> exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" >>>>>>>>>> do. >>>>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>>>> that the majority do, nor that most do. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage >>>>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>>>> to 1V >>>>>>>>>> will have removed most of the available energy from the battery. >>>>>>>>>> Further, >>>>>>>>>> if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to >>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>> a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to >>>>>>>>>> provide a >>>>>>>>>> constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the >>>>>>>>>> regulator >>>>>>>>>> dissipates more energy as heat. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal >>>>>>>>> step up >>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>> regulator circuittry. >>>>>>>>> Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik. >>>>>>>>> Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific >>>>>>>>> equipment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a >>>>>>>> matter of >>>>>>>> what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate >>>>>>>> on 1V >>>>>>>> per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump the >>>>>>>> voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy >>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>> pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> but also wastes energy in >>>>>>>> the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is all >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> need. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V. >>>>>> >>>>>> Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then any >>>>>> higher voltage wastes energy, >>>>> >>>>> No it does not. >>>>> >>>>>> unless the device contrives to draw a lower current at the higher >>>>>> voltage >>>>> >>>>> Nope, think of a constant current device. >>> >>>> A constant current device consumes power in proportion to the applied >>>> voltage. >>> >>> But the device isn't necessarily a constant current device. > >> You raised constant current devices. > > Only to rub your nose in that error of yours. > >>>>>> (which typically implies some kind of non-linear regulator). >>>>> >>>>> No reason why it can't just connect the battery >>>>> directly to the load while ever the voltage is high >>>>> enough and put it thru a step up regulator when >>>>> the battery voltage is too low, to get what remains >>>>> in the battery out of the battery. >>> >>>> Care to propose an actual circuit that does that without itself >>>> wasting energy? >>> >>> One obvious way to do that is to use a relay that >>> applys the battery directly to what its powering >>> while ever the battery has sufficient voltage and >>> then switches the step up regulator in when the >>> battery voltage drops below the voltage at which >>> the device will turn itself off due to insufficient voltage. > >> And the relay coil is powered how? > > Doesn’t have to be powered, it can be a bistable relay > or use the normally closed terminals when the relay > is not powered to connect the battery directly to the > load when the battery voltage is high enough. > >>>> In any case, the point remains that applying an unnecessarily high >>>> voltage to a device is wasteful of energy. >>> >>> But you don’t have to do it like that. The battery >>> can be directly connected to the load when it >>> is producing sufficient voltage to power the load. > >> The batteriser cannot tell what voltage is sufficient. > > It can work that out from when the load no longer > runs when the battery voltage is low enough. Devices don't necessarily stop drawing current just because the input voltage has reached a level below which they cannot work properly. Sylvia.
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Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> - 2015-06-03 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-03 16:30 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-04 12:14 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-04 21:16 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:37 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:38 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:23 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:19 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 15:42 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:54 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 19:08 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 21:52 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 22:45 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 22:57 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:11 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 13:02 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-06 13:50 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:51 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:59 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:34 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:40 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:25 +1000
Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 14:54 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 12:54 +0200
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:03 +1000
Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 16:47 +0200
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