Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent

From	"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	aus.computers, aus.electronics
Subject	Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by 800 percent
Date	2015-06-05 12:23 +1000
Message-ID	<ctcfh3Fh9j6U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net> <ct7l8rF9s36U1@mid.individual.net> <ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net> <ctaqd6F43teU1@mid.individual.net> <ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message 
news:ctccruFgnlaU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 4/06/2015 9:16 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
>> news:ct9ql0Fr49nU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 3/06/2015 4:30 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
>>>> news:ct79kgF79afU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> On 3/06/2015 11:38 AM, Damian wrote:
>>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ct4tn7Fj4asU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> On 2/06/2015 1:47 PM, felix_unger wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the claims need to be, if not taken with a pinch of salt, at
>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>> understood for exactly what they are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The patent
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com.au/patents/US20120121943?dq=20120121943+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TxtVf2zNYWO8QXdwYKgDw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> states
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Some electronic equipments that use disposable batteries, such as 
>>>>>>> AA
>>>>>>> batteries, are designed to stop operating when the battery voltage
>>>>>>> drops
>>>>>>> by 10% or so. That means when the voltage of an AA battery drops to
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> 1.4V or 1.35V."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, that may be true, but if the voltage curves shown in figure 7
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> patent are correct, equipment that bails at 1.35 is clearly being
>>>>>>> exceedingly wasteful. Note that the claims is only that "some" do.
>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>> that the majority do, nor that most do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By comparison, equipment that's happy to run until the voltage drops
>>>>>>> to 1V
>>>>>>> will have removed most of the available energy from the battery.
>>>>>>> Further,
>>>>>>> if, as is possible, such equipment contains a linear regulator to
>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>> a constant internal voltage, then adding the Batteriser to provide a
>>>>>>> constant 1.5V input will just run the battery down faster as the
>>>>>>> regulator
>>>>>>> dissipates more energy as heat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That if the majority of the equipment comes with an internal step up
>>>>>> voltage
>>>>>> regulator circuittry.
>>>>>> Hardly any consumer electronic device come with that afaik.
>>>>>> Many that comes with such circuitry are commercial and scientific
>>>>>> equipment.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not a question of having step up circuitry. It's just a matter of
>>>>> what voltage the device requires to operate. If it can operate on 1V
>>>>> per cell then there's no need to provide extra circuity to pump the
>>>>> voltage back to 1.5V per cell. Doing so not only wastes energy in the
>>>>> pump circuitry due to its lack of 100% efficiency,
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> but also wastes energy in
>>>>> the 0.5V drop from what's supplied to the device to what it needs.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. They don’t normally regulate it down to that 1V that is all they
>>>> need.
>>>>
>>>> It just works fine with everything from 1.5V down to 1V.
>>>
>>> Think about the physics of it, Rod. If it can work on 1V, then any
>>> higher voltage wastes energy,
>>
>> No it does not.
>>
>>> unless the device contrives to draw a lower current at the higher 
>>> voltage
>>
>> Nope, think of a constant current device.

> A constant current device consumes power in proportion to the applied 
> voltage.

But the device isn't necessarily a constant current device.

>>> (which typically implies some kind of non-linear regulator).
>>
>> No reason why it can't just connect the battery
>> directly to the load while ever the voltage is high
>> enough and put it thru a step up regulator when
>> the battery voltage is too low, to get what remains
>> in the battery out of the battery.

> Care to propose an actual circuit that does that without itself wasting 
> energy?

One obvious way to do that is to use a relay that
applys the battery directly to what its powering
while ever the battery has sufficient voltage and
then switches the step up regulator in when the
battery voltage drops below the voltage at which
the device will turn itself off due to insufficient voltage.

> In any case, the point remains that applying an unnecessarily high voltage 
> to a device is wasteful of energy.

But you don’t have to do it like that. The battery
can be directly connected to the load when it
is producing sufficient voltage to power the load.

Thread

Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> - 2015-06-03 11:38 +1000
  Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-03 16:30 +1000
    Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-04 12:14 +1000
      Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-04 21:16 +1000
        Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:37 +0200
        Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:38 +1000
          Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:23 +1000
            Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:19 +1000
              Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 15:42 +1000
                Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 15:54 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 19:08 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 21:52 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 22:45 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 22:57 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:11 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 13:02 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-06 13:50 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:51 +1000
                Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 19:59 +1000
      Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life   by   800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-04 13:34 +0200
        Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life     by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 11:40 +1000
          Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life     by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 12:25 +1000
            Re: Batteries claims to be able to extend disposable battery life     by   800 percent "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 14:54 +1000
          Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life       by   800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 12:54 +0200
            Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life         by   800 percent Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-06-05 23:03 +1000
              Re: Batteriser claims to be able to extend disposable battery life           by   800 percent BuckyBalls <"The Pres"@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-05 16:47 +0200

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